Suicide

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

But who says they have no reason to live? Is not our purpose decided by God? Who are we to say our life is without purpose or meaning?  

[zz1000zz]

Fushigi na Butterfly

But who says they have no reason to live? Is not our purpose decided by God? Who are we to say our life is without purpose or meaning?

We cannot say, "It is a sin because God does not want us to do it." That is just tautology. We cannot say, "God does not want us to do it," unless we can first show God has a specific plan being contradicted by these actions.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

zz1000zz

Fushigi na Butterfly

But who says they have no reason to live? Is not our purpose decided by God? Who are we to say our life is without purpose or meaning?

We cannot say, "It is a sin because God does not want us to do it." That is just tautology. We cannot say, "God does not want us to do it," unless we can first show God has a specific plan being contradicted by these actions.

But that's not always possible. Human beings have such limited sight. Job lost everything. He literally had no other reason to live. But God still had a purpose, even though Job clearly didn't see it at first. There is no possible way to always know God's plan for us unless we continue to live.  

[zz1000zz]

Fushigi na Butterfly

zz1000zz

Fushigi na Butterfly

But who says they have no reason to live? Is not our purpose decided by God? Who are we to say our life is without purpose or meaning?

We cannot say, "It is a sin because God does not want us to do it." That is just tautology. We cannot say, "God does not want us to do it," unless we can first show God has a specific plan being contradicted by these actions.

But that's not always possible. Human beings have such limited sight. Job lost everything. He literally had no other reason to live. But God still had a purpose, even though Job clearly didn't see it at first. There is no possible way to always know God's plan for us unless we continue to live.

This ignored the issue. You assume God has a specific plan for each person, and you assume suicide would be contrary to this plan. Neither of these assumptions can be supported.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

zz1000zz

Fushigi na Butterfly

zz1000zz

Fushigi na Butterfly

But who says they have no reason to live? Is not our purpose decided by God? Who are we to say our life is without purpose or meaning?

We cannot say, "It is a sin because God does not want us to do it." That is just tautology. We cannot say, "God does not want us to do it," unless we can first show God has a specific plan being contradicted by these actions.

But that's not always possible. Human beings have such limited sight. Job lost everything. He literally had no other reason to live. But God still had a purpose, even though Job clearly didn't see it at first. There is no possible way to always know God's plan for us unless we continue to live.

This ignored the issue. You assume God has a specific plan for each person, and you assume suicide would be contrary to this plan. Neither of these assumptions can be supported.

Judging from God's character throughout the Bible, it's clear (at least to me) that God does not create anything without deeming it purposeful or useful in some way. Every story, every parable, ever telling of God's freeing slaves and healing the sick shows that people and their problems, even their shortcomings, have a purpose in God's eyes. God has always had a specific plan for people, if even to help other people learn by their example (whether good or bad). The only person whose suicide is justified in my mind was Judas', since he clearly had already fulfilled his purpose. Does that mean God could not have used him further? Not by any means, and we will probably never know if God had other plans for him, but his ultimate purpose- betraying Jesus- had been fulfilled.

If God had a plan for everyone as evidenced by His Word, then wouldn't it be contrary to His nature (as we understand it from the Bible) to not have a purpose for everyone else?  

[zz1000zz]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Judging from God's character throughout the Bible, it's clear (at least to me) that God does not create anything without deeming it purposeful or useful in some way.

God does not create people. Sex creates people. God is not individually involved in every pregnancy. That God finds every individual useful, or that every individual has a purpose does not mean God has a specific use or purpose for them. People can have purposes and uses without God specifically laying them out.

Fushigi na Butterfly

Every story, every parable, ever telling of God's freeing slaves and healing the sick shows that people and their problems, even their shortcomings, have a purpose in God's eyes. God has always had a specific plan for people, if even to help other people learn by their example (whether good or bad).

You say every person has a purpose, then you say God has a specific purpose for every person. The former does not imply the latter. Humans must create their own lives. God gives humans free will so they can decide what their purpose will be.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

zz1000zz

Fushigi na Butterfly

Judging from God's character throughout the Bible, it's clear (at least to me) that God does not create anything without deeming it purposeful or useful in some way.

God does not create people. Sex creates people. God is not individually involved in every pregnancy. That God finds every individual useful, or that every individual has a purpose does not mean God has a specific use or purpose for them. People can have purposes and uses without God specifically laying them out.

Sex might create people in the flesh, but God had them planned before then. I'm sure God, in His omnipresence and omniscience, knows every human being that may or may not make it into this world. I believe that, insofar as it concerns His kingdom, God does have a specific purpose for each of us.

Quote:

Fushigi na Butterfly

Every story, every parable, ever telling of God's freeing slaves and healing the sick shows that people and their problems, even their shortcomings, have a purpose in God's eyes. God has always had a specific plan for people, if even to help other people learn by their example (whether good or bad).

You say every person has a purpose, then you say God has a specific purpose for every person. The former does not imply the latter. Humans must create their own lives. God gives humans free will so they can decide what their purpose will be.

I believe that each purpose a person has has been decided by God. Whether or not they fulfill that is clearly up to them. Which is why it is so important to communicate with God, so that we can fulfill the purpose He has set for us.  

[zz1000zz]

Just how much of a plan do you think God has each person? What makes you think this?  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

I'm not God, so I don't know. I've just always felt that His pattern of having plans and purposes for those people we read about in the Bible would carry forward to us as well. I'm making assumptions based on the pattern I see in the Bible.  

[zz1000zz]

But just how much of a plan do you think he has? Do you think he has a plan on whether you should eat a PBJ or a BLT? How about whether you should be a teacher or a doctor? Whether you should watch House or Psych?

God wants people to not sin. God wants people to do the right thing. Beyond that, he lets us figure out how to live.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

zz1000zz

But just how much of a plan do you think he has? Do you think he has a plan on whether you should eat a PBJ or a BLT? How about whether you should be a teacher or a doctor? Whether you should watch House or Psych?

God wants people to not sin. God wants people to do the right thing. Beyond that, he lets us figure out how to live.

I think He has a plan regarding the biggest and most influential aspects of our lives. Does He care if we eat a ham sandwich or a PB&J sandwich? Probably not. Does He care if we choose to become a doctor or a teacher? Possibly, because that choice may lead to witnessing opportunities and opportunities to further God's kingdom. I believe God has a plan for everyone's life, and a desire to see His will unfold in matters that ultimately are our choice. It's like we are agents of God's to-do list, but also God is concerned for our own well-being. Would it be better to move into this apartment or the other one? To accept a job with this company or that one? To accept a proposal of marriage now or later? These things are all our choice, of course, but God has a preference, I believe, a preference that will lead not only to our happiness and over all well-being, but also opportunities to love and serve more fully.

To that effect, suicide serves no one but the self (in situations such as the one presented in the article I posted). You are loving no one but yourself and serving no one's agenda but your own.  

[zz1000zz]

Nothing of what you say could possibly be known. You can guess that it is true all you want, and it is perfectly fine to apply that to your life. However, there is no biblical basis to tell someone else not to commit suicide.  

[Ixor Firebadger]

This is true. No one knows what God has planned for their life. Except God. Thus, i think that he should be the only one with the authority over whether we live or die. It is not something we should be taking into our own hands. We should be trusting our lives to the one who has a better understanding of what we can do with it.  

[zz1000zz]

I disagree. I do not think we have any reason to believe God has any plan for our lives.

I certainly have no intention of trying to live by some unknown plan dictated to me by the whims of other people.  

[Yelimi Kughdi]

Hey, I feel like I should do this, seeing the large discussion that is being held. I wanted to apologize for starting this thread, however it might end up being very well in the end. I want to thank all of you guys who were praying for me. I no longer am suicidal and I am not even depressed anymore. Again I am writing this reply because I feel it appropriate (I still want to read through all the posts though, so good thoughts.)