Several Questions on fantasy and witchcraft

[Matt Pniewski]

Priestley

Matt Pniewski

Priestley

Aachren

Besides, just 'cause the Truth came wrapped in a pretty story doesn't mean it is no longer the Truth. Didn't Christ Himself tell little stories?

Note, I said 'fiction'.

The stories Jesus told are all non-fiction -- not that they happened or did not happen but that they are how the Kingdom of God is.

How is that different from a story that talks about right or wrong.... It's not important if they happened or not, but they are proper, moral tales that people should take lessons from.

I've already made my point about how one's morals can be easily distorted by such stories.

I'd like you to read my above post.

I read it. I just don't agree. This isn't about spiritual righteousness... It's about doing right from wrong. And we have courts, laws, ect to do that. But more importantly, we have stories to teach us.  

[Priestley]

Matt Pniewski

Priestley

Matt Pniewski

Priestley

Aachren

Besides, just 'cause the Truth came wrapped in a pretty story doesn't mean it is no longer the Truth. Didn't Christ Himself tell little stories?

Note, I said 'fiction'.

The stories Jesus told are all non-fiction -- not that they happened or did not happen but that they are how the Kingdom of God is.

How is that different from a story that talks about right or wrong.... It's not important if they happened or not, but they are proper, moral tales that people should take lessons from.

I've already made my point about how one's morals can be easily distorted by such stories.

I'd like you to read my above post.

I read it. I just don't agree. This isn't about spiritual righteousness... It's about doing right from wrong. And we have courts, laws, ect to do that. But more importantly, we have stories to teach us.

Ah, but Jesus' stories are about spiritual righteousness and truth.

Right and wrong are mixed up in this world of ours. What's right for one person isn't necessarily right for another. If killing is wrong, for example, what makes killing someone in times of war right? If stealing is wrong, for another example, what makes stealing from the rich to give to the poor right?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking storytelling, but the way in which you're presenting its use is comparable to the defence rappers use for glorifying being a gangsta and living life in the 'hood.  

[Matt Pniewski]

Priestley

Matt Pniewski

Priestley

Matt Pniewski

Priestley

Aachren

Besides, just 'cause the Truth came wrapped in a pretty story doesn't mean it is no longer the Truth. Didn't Christ Himself tell little stories?

Note, I said 'fiction'.

The stories Jesus told are all non-fiction -- not that they happened or did not happen but that they are how the Kingdom of God is.

How is that different from a story that talks about right or wrong.... It's not important if they happened or not, but they are proper, moral tales that people should take lessons from.

I've already made my point about how one's morals can be easily distorted by such stories.

I'd like you to read my above post.

I read it. I just don't agree. This isn't about spiritual righteousness... It's about doing right from wrong. And we have courts, laws, ect to do that. But more importantly, we have stories to teach us.

Ah, but Jesus' stories are about spiritual righteousness and truth.

Right and wrong are mixed up in this world of ours. What's right for one person isn't necessarily right for another. If killing is wrong, for example, what makes killing someone in times of war right? If stealing is wrong, for another example, what makes stealing from the rich to give to the poor right?

Don't get me wrong, I'm not attacking storytelling, but the way in which you're presenting its use is comparable to the defence rappers use for glorifying being a gangsta and living life in the 'hood.

I understand what you are saying.... But still, somebody who robs a liquor store is still somebody who robs a liquor store. Somebody who sells drugs stills sells drugs. This isn't "King of New York", and Christpher Walken was NEVER Robin Hood....


There are grey areas..... And I think there is nothing wrong with accepting that. We only know that the great question of stealing a loaf of bread to feed a starving family BECAUSE we know both stealing is wrong and allowing others to suffer is.

Who is suffering? Who is the cause? What is being done? Street Gangs sell drugs and harm innocent people. That's not Robin Hood at all.  

[Arroe Kitsu]

For me, God delivered me from witchcraft, which stemmed from an obsession with Harry Potter. I think that If we get addicted easily, or distracted from the things of Christ by these things, then no, you shouldn't participate in said things. We should ask why are we reading, playing, or watching them in the first place. Most people don't beleive in demons or the devil... most Christians. But I think that satan uses those things as tools, or primers, for the occult. It Desensitizes people, if you aren't extremely careful.If you know that those things cause you to stumble in your relationship with God, or you find yourself becoming consumed by those things, then stay away from them The Bible says that we are to "flee every apperance of evil". I don't think that they are bad, b/c I enjoy Final Fantasy and anime that has magic myself, I just think that if it begins to corrupt or take away from or relationship with God, or hinders it, then you don't need to do it. As with anything really. Anything can become and Idol, so to speak, or can take away from our time with Him. He should be first, because we are commanded that He should. Plus, he DESERVES it. Anyways, just look at the intentions of your heart I guess is what I'm trying to say. And be careful.  

[LadyAbiel]

Yayoi Sanzein

For me, God delivered me from witchcraft, which stemmed from an obsession with Harry Potter. I think that If we get addicted easily, or distracted from the things of Christ by these things, then no, you shouldn't participate in said things. We should ask why are we reading, playing, or watching them in the first place. Most people don't beleive in demons or the devil... most Christians. But I think that satan uses those things as tools, or primers, for the occult. It Desensitizes people, if you aren't extremely careful.If you know that those things cause you to stumble in your relationship with God, or you find yourself becoming consumed by those things, then stay away from them The Bible says that we are to "flee every apperance of evil". I don't think that they are bad, b/c I enjoy Final Fantasy and anime that has magic myself, I just think that if it begins to corrupt or take away from or relationship with God, or hinders it, then you don't need to do it. As with anything really. Anything can become and Idol, so to speak, or can take away from our time with Him. He should be first, because we are commanded that He should. Plus, he DESERVES it. Anyways, just look at the intentions of your heart I guess is what I'm trying to say. And be careful.

I hear you.. I used to not pray very much, and was all over animes, books, mangas and such.. when I was younger . But at some point in my life I just started praying a little more, and studying the bible.. . I now have time for God (which I didn't really have in the past). When it comes to anything supernatural (which I must admit, I love...) I try to stay away from things that are "too dark" in my point of view. I stay away from anything with demons and evil spirits.. . If it's light and if there's some kind of exorcism, I'll watch it (like Shaman King.. )... but if it's as dark as the movie "Constantine" (which I will not watch ever again >.<) I won't watch it.. .  

[Autie Lady]

I don't think God minds what we read or watch, it matters how we react to it. If we just watch or read it for a good story, fine. If we devote our time and heart to being like Harry Potter unstead of devoting ourselves to Jesus; yes, it is wrong. When my sisters or brothers are watching a show based on magic, I'll mention during the commercial about how X character does this, but we know we can't do that. I have to be really careful how deeply I am drawn into things; my Autism has a tendency to obsess about one thing and if I'm not careful, I put it above all, including God.  

[Ixor Firebadger]

LadyAbiel

Yayoi Sanzein

For me, God delivered me from witchcraft, which stemmed from an obsession with Harry Potter. I think that If we get addicted easily, or distracted from the things of Christ by these things, then no, you shouldn't participate in said things. We should ask why are we reading, playing, or watching them in the first place. Most people don't beleive in demons or the devil... most Christians. But I think that satan uses those things as tools, or primers, for the occult. It Desensitizes people, if you aren't extremely careful.If you know that those things cause you to stumble in your relationship with God, or you find yourself becoming consumed by those things, then stay away from them The Bible says that we are to "flee every apperance of evil". I don't think that they are bad, b/c I enjoy Final Fantasy and anime that has magic myself, I just think that if it begins to corrupt or take away from or relationship with God, or hinders it, then you don't need to do it. As with anything really. Anything can become and Idol, so to speak, or can take away from our time with Him. He should be first, because we are commanded that He should. Plus, he DESERVES it. Anyways, just look at the intentions of your heart I guess is what I'm trying to say. And be careful.

I hear you.. I used to not pray very much, and was all over animes, books, mangas and such.. when I was younger . But at some point in my life I just started praying a little more, and studying the bible.. . I now have time for God (which I didn't really have in the past). When it comes to anything supernatural (which I must admit, I love...) I try to stay away from things that are "too dark" in my point of view. I stay away from anything with demons and evil spirits.. . If it's light and if there's some kind of exorcism, I'll watch it (like Shaman King.. )... but if it's as dark as the movie "Constantine" (which I will not watch ever again >.<) I won't watch it.. .

I'm sort of the same way, though it's not so much if something is too dark that makes me uneasy. I actually used to be into the occult and did some rather...interesting things...in my time. So I can recognize the real thing if I see it in the media. It tends to make me feel a little tempted and that makes me uneasy. Those are the things I avoid.

One big reason Harry Potter doesn't bother me. I know for a fact that it has no similarities to anything one might consider real occult. It isn't any danger to anyone except those that had a very weak grip on reality to begin with. confused  

[ClaranceSH]

C.S. Lewis wrote in the Screwtape letters something to the effect of the Demon trying to distract the man with a good book ( a novel or something) when he shouldn't read it and to keep the man from that good book when it is good for him to relax and read it. He said get the man to go on a walk when he should be praying and get him to pray when he should be walking.

Nothing when it is best and put good before best when you can't get them to worst. Of course we know that is the opposite of how we should do things. There is a time for fun and a time for seriousness and we should have some of those as direct times with God. As to witchcraft in the fantasy sense of it and reading or watching things then ,as others have said, as long as it pushes you towards Jesus and not away then it is fine.

Anything can become a hindrance and draw us away from God and then we should remove them. As to the biblical refrence of witchcraft it is not the same as someone put above. Knowledge is not wichcraft but it is trying to talk to the dead, divining things and I believe but could be wrong is also linked to mind altering drugs as in the refrences of witchcraft where the orginal word is pharmakia or something like that if you put it in english.

Again it comes down to practice as well, don't watch things with that if your intent is to learn how to, of course if that is your intent then you need to do some thinking on where you are at that time with Christ and make some changes.  

[DustNymph]

Warning: Non-Christian Perspective Below

For me, injunctions against Harry Potter and the like because they featured witchcraft always seemed a little silly. The books and movie are complete fantasy. If a person were looking to learn REAL witchcraft and wizardry, they'd have to go elsewhere.

In order to respond properly, I'm trying to think about the Christian motivation for prohibiting witchcraft. It seems to me that an important goal for Christians is to live one's life for God and trying to live up to the example of Jesus Christ. If you want help with something beyond your earthly powers to attain, you can ask of God. Essentially, you are putting forth your request and leaving it up to God's wisdom whether or not it should be granted.

Conversely, magic could be viewed as taking things into one's own hands. Rather than asking God for fair weather on your wedding day, you try to cast a spell to affect the weather on your own. But what if there really needs to be rain for the welfare of the local plants and animals? In this light, one could think of God as one who views human requests and decides whether or not they fit in with His plan.

In this regard, witchcraft could be viewed as treading on God's toes.

With that said, I think it should be stated that when many teens believe they are committing the sin of witchcraft, they are actually committing the sin of vanity. It's a basic human psychological need to feel significant. In search of this, some young people turn to delusions of being able to control wind, hear ghosts, or curse their enemies. Now, I'm of the mind that it is actually possible to do these things to some degree, but not without a whole lot of work and maybe some innate talent.

One interesting phrase I've come across in the neopagan community is "Mr. Dark." A Mr. Dark is an elaborate delusion that a person constructs, setting themself up as some powerful, misunderstood, "dark" figure who is often tasked with battling some great force or calamity. This seriously warped view of reality is more common than one might think. Usually the afflicted person grows out of this, but not always.

Think of the Mr. Dark as an example of egocentricity taken to the extreme. Something like this would definitely be considered a sin. I wouldn't name the sin as witchcraft, since the person in question probably couldn't magic themselves out of a wet paper bag. However, they are definitely committing the sin of vanity by putting themself on a pedestal and forsaking humility and reason.  

[Xandris]

DustNymph

With that said, I think it should be stated that when many teens believe they are committing the sin of witchcraft, they are actually committing the sin of vanity.

And here the nail's been hit on the head. They're dabbling in forces beyond their control and have the arrogance to believe they CAN control it with but a few sweeps of the hand. It's very arrogant of us to think that with some herbs and gibberish we can be equals to God. I mean, don't we all remember what happened to the last guy that tried that? mrgreen  

[Priestley]

Xandris

It's very arrogant of us to think that with some herbs and gibberish we can be equals to God.

Well, even without some herbs and gibberish, we are gods. Jesus knew this because it's from Genesis.

Xandris

...don't we all remember what happened to the last guy that tried that? mrgreen

We certainly do, and people still deny it.  

[Galad Aglaron]

Priestley

Xandris

It's very arrogant of us to think that with some herbs and gibberish we can be equals to God.

Well, even without some herbs and gibberish, we are gods. Jesus knew this because it's from Genesis.

That sounds Satanic. *smirk*  

[Priestley]

Galad Damodred

Priestley

Xandris

It's very arrogant of us to think that with some herbs and gibberish we can be equals to God.

Well, even without some herbs and gibberish, we are gods. Jesus knew this because it's from Genesis.

That sounds Satanic. *smirk*

Well, Satan did say of the fruit what it would make Adam and Eve:

Genesis 2:4-5 NIV

4 "You will not surely die," the serpent said to the woman. 5 "For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil."

Yahweh even acknowledged their new status:

Genesis 2:22 NIV

22 And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

Jesus, protested the Jews' accusations of blasphemy and threats of stoning for claiming to be God in that he is one with the Father...

John 10:33-36 NIV

33 "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."

34 Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? 35 If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— 36 what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'?

...quoting:

Psalm 82:6 NIV

6 "I said, 'You are "gods";
you are all sons of the Most High.'

It is not Satanic to admit one's own godhood if it is stated by both Yahweh and Jesus that it is so. What is Satanic is claiming that godhood puts oneself above Yahweh or Jesus.  

[Galad Aglaron]

God is everything. To say that God is one thing and not another is to say that God is finite and limited, which is a blasphemy. Therefore, it stands to reason that God is - everything. You are God, I am God, the sky and trees and stone and seas are all God...

Hahaha, I never thought I'd see the day when I philosophically backed such a theistic idea.  

[Xandris]

Galad Damodred

God is everything. To say that God is one thing and not another is to say that God is finite and limited, which is a blasphemy. Therefore, it stands to reason that God is - everything. You are God, I am God, the sky and trees and stone and seas are all God...

Hahaha, I never thought I'd see the day when I philosophically backed such a theistic idea.

Very Druidic philosophy. mrgreen