FOCA: Freedom of Choice or A Radical Measure?

[zz1000zz]

I honestly do not know how to respond at this point. I want to rail against the hypocrisy of complaining about idiocy while making (and repeating) idiotic mistakes. I want to rail against the hypocrisy of using rude and condescending remarks to demean others while condemning my posts for their attitude. I want to rail against the hypocrisy that allows jokes about murder to be posted freely but condemns posts that simply say "Your beliefs are wrong."

Still, the idea of insulting a guild leader, no matter how wrong he or she may be, seems like a bad idea. So instead, I am just going to ask a favor. Fushigi na Butterfly, read your last three responses to me and think.

I think by any fair reading your posts were far more offensive than anything I said in that homosexuality topic.  

[Priestley]

Am I correct in saying that certain states acted independently to make abortion illegal, which the Supreme Court (judiciary branch) has since overturned? Is FOCA a way for Congress and Senate (legislative) to ensure that constitutional rights are upheld? It's pretty difficult to understand the kinds of checks and balances your system of government employs when I have only a surface knowledge of it.  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

Priestley

Am I correct in saying that certain states acted independently to make abortion illegal, which the Supreme Court (judiciary branch) has since overturned? Is FOCA a way for Congress and Senate (legislative) to ensure that constitutional rights are upheld? It's pretty difficult to understand the kinds of checks and balances your system of government employs when I have only a surface knowledge of it.

That about sums it up. Individual states are STILL trying to ban abortion but can't since the federal law overrides it, so they've tacked on a bunch of conditions that must be met before it can be done.

And zz, we're not ignoring your post. We're going to let you and the captain work all this out.  

[Mein Kulturkampf]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Mein Kulturkampf

Because it is immoral for one person to assume rights over another person's body, no matter what age.

So there should be no law against adults having sex with minors, right? Cuz, you know, the government has no right to say what any person can and can't do with their body. rolleyes

=) Assuming that the minor is capable of understanding their bodily rights, this is completely correct. You forget that if a person takes advantage of another person, they are also assuming rights over another's body.

That said, as a minor I completely support youth rights in all arenas, from the criminal to the sexual to the democratic.  

[Mein Kulturkampf]

Priestley

Mein Kulturkampf

Priestley

Mein Kulturkampf

Priestley

Oh, I see. So, with FOCA, a woman's legal right to have an abortion even when not medically necessary is protected by obligating medial facilities to provide the procedure? stare

If the medical facility is owned by the state, yes. It's not a new concept that government-run organizations must remain separate from religious organizations.

Actually, I don't think the act discriminates between government and faith-based facilities. If the act of law is passed, it applies to all.

If you read the text of the act, you will see that it applies to facilities that are an extension of government.

Please highlight the particular text to which you are referring, because I cannot see where it explicitly states that it only applies to government facilities or that faith-based institutions are excluded from this act.

"(1) GOVERNMENT- The term `government' includes a branch, department, agency, instrumentality, or official (or other individual acting under color of law) of the United States, a State, or a subdivision of a State.

...

(b) Prohibition of Interference- A government may not--..."  

[Mein Kulturkampf]

zz1000zz

I honestly do not know how to respond at this point. I want to rail against the hypocrisy of complaining about idiocy while making (and repeating) idiotic mistakes. I want to rail against the hypocrisy of using rude and condescending remarks to demean others while condemning my posts for their attitude. I want to rail against the hypocrisy that allows jokes about murder to be posted freely but condemns posts that simply say "Your beliefs are wrong."

Still, the idea of insulting a guild leader, no matter how wrong he or she may be, seems like a bad idea. So instead, I am just going to ask a favor. Fushigi na Butterfly, read your last three responses to me and think.

I think by any fair reading your posts were far more offensive than anything I said in that homosexuality topic.

I read everything FnB said to you, and I am unable to see anything offensive. Perhaps you could, say, highlight the relevant portions?  

[Priestley]

Mein Kulturkampf

Priestley

Mein Kulturkampf

Priestley

Mein Kulturkampf

Priestley

Oh, I see. So, with FOCA, a woman's legal right to have an abortion even when not medically necessary is protected by obligating medial facilities to provide the procedure? stare

If the medical facility is owned by the state, yes. It's not a new concept that government-run organizations must remain separate from religious organizations.

Actually, I don't think the act discriminates between government and faith-based facilities. If the act of law is passed, it applies to all.

If you read the text of the act, you will see that it applies to facilities that are an extension of government.

Please highlight the particular text to which you are referring, because I cannot see where it explicitly states that it only applies to government facilities or that faith-based institutions are excluded from this act.

"(1) GOVERNMENT- The term `government' includes a branch, department, agency, instrumentality, or official (or other individual acting under color of law) of the United States, a State, or a subdivision of a State.

...

(b) Prohibition of Interference- A government may not--..."

Read this.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Mein Kulturkampf

Fushigi na Butterfly

Mein Kulturkampf

Because it is immoral for one person to assume rights over another person's body, no matter what age.

So there should be no law against adults having sex with minors, right? Cuz, you know, the government has no right to say what any person can and can't do with their body. rolleyes

=) Assuming that the minor is capable of understanding their bodily rights, this is completely correct. You forget that if a person takes advantage of another person, they are also assuming rights over another's body.

That said, as a minor I completely support youth rights in all arenas, from the criminal to the sexual to the democratic.

I'm actually going to have to retract this response. After thinking about it more, and spelling it out for myself, I realized it made no sense. So I apologize for that.

Also, I've PMed zz1000zz, so hopefully we'll work this out. Thank you for your concern though. 3nodding  

[zz1000zz]

Mein Kulturkampf

I read everything FnB said to you, and I am unable to see anything offensive. Perhaps you could, say, highlight the relevant portions?

As was already said, Fushigi na Butterfly and I will discuss this through private messages for now.

ryuu_chan

And zz, we're not ignoring your post. We're going to let you and the captain work all this out.

I wouldn't expect anything else.  

[Mein Kulturkampf]

Is there anything else to discuss in this topic that would be out of place in a standard abortion thread, or can it be safely locked?  

[Priestley]

Mein Kulturkampf

Is there anything else to discuss in this topic that would be out of place in a standard abortion thread, or can it be safely locked?

It will remain open for discussion until such time that a month has passed without a reply, at which time it'll be locked. This is guild policy.  

[Autie Lady]

I'm pro choice so it's not anything that upsets me.  

[zz1000zz]

Priestley

Mein Kulturkampf

Is there anything else to discuss in this topic that would be out of place in a standard abortion thread, or can it be safely locked?

It will remain open for discussion until such time that a month has passed without a reply, at which time it'll be locked. This is guild policy.

Of course, that assumes a month will pass without a reply..

Edit: In case anyone was wondering, Fushigi na Butterfly worked out our differences from this topic.  

[Priestley]

zz1000zz

Priestley

Mein Kulturkampf

Is there anything else to discuss in this topic that would be out of place in a standard abortion thread, or can it be safely locked?

It will remain open for discussion until such time that a month has passed without a reply, at which time it'll be locked. This is guild policy.

Of course, that assumes a month will pass without a reply..

Edit: In case anyone was wondering, Fushigi na Butterfly worked out our differences from this topic.

If it does, it does. If it doesn't, it doesn't. That's just what happens. I'm glad you two have reached an agreement. smile

Further to the topic of the thread, I think it's important to keep this post up for education purposes. Clearly, certain individuals haven't yet understood the message that the cause for which they are fighting is untrue.  

[zz1000zz]

Priestley

If it does, it does. If it doesn't, it doesn't. That's just what happens. I'm glad you two have reached an agreement. smile

Further to the topic of the thread, I think it's important to keep this post up for education purposes. Clearly, certain individuals haven't yet understood the message that the cause for which they are fighting is untrue.

Seeing as at least one more thread was posted on this topic well after things had been settled, it may be good to keep this thread around for a while yet. I suppose if FOCA gets passed, the topic will not be needed.

(It is remarkable just how easily people come to terms with me when we actually talk.)