Homosexuality is a sin. and Tattoos.

[zz1000zz]

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Have I not done that already? I explained the context of the Chapter.

First, discussing the context of the passage would not respond to my challenge. The validity of my challenge is based solely upon the inappropriateness of Kaiser's material. That issue is separate from the meaning of the passage.

Second, no you have not. In fact, you claiming to have done so is silly. You said:

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It's all about context. Here read the part of the chapter.
...
All of them are degrading and offensive to the moral sense. Not to mention, the guilty results are death and just punishment.

That is not a discussion of Hebrew context. You didn't even mention the Hebrew language or any Hebrew words. Moreover, it doesn't even come close to a discussion of context. Discussing the context would involve far more than saying a few sentences. Just explaining the nature of Leviticus 17-26 should take at least a paragraph, and you haven't even attempted to do that.

I will sum up the context of that passage, since you couldn't be bothered. The passage you quoted was ritualistic law, which has no role in a post-Christ world.  

[Priestley]

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It is nonsense if so. I pointed out a problem, he did not disagree with the problem, but rather brought up an issue which was irrelevant.

Irrelevant? Let me rehash. You posted that, '"abomination' does not mean it is a sin." Then I posted a defense from Walter Kaiser stating that abomination is degrading and offensive to the moral sense. Another words, abomination (tow'ebah) is a sin.

And zz1000zz challenged that defence:

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He translated a Hebrew word, then discussed the definition of the English form as though it was directly applicable. It is incorrect and absurd.

I think the correct approach would have been to discuss the Hebrew word in its own context rather than the English form.

Have I not done that already?

No, you haven't. The defence you gave was Kaiser's discussion of the English word 'abomonation' as if it were exactly the same as the Jewish word 'tow'ebah', not a translation. What Kaiser ought to have done is to have discussed the world 'tow'ebah' in Jewish context of moral and ritual law.

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I explained the context of the Chapter.

That was not the context to which I was referring. (See above).

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But then you intervene by arguing that its only offensive to the moral sense of the community. Which is absurd because it focuses on a moral establishment within a community.

No, I said it's only offensive to the moral sense of the community in which such a moral sense has been established.

An essentially immoral community would have no moral sense that such behaviours would offend.

A community with a different moral sense to another community might take offence at the other community's moral sense and vice versa, such as in the example I gave: Western society's attitudes of underage sex and native African tribes' attitudes to marriage customs.

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Therefore the Gentiles are not subjected to the Law of God because its only for the Jewish community according to your own reasoning.

We are subject to the remaining commandments that Jesus' sacrifice did not fulfill because we are the Gentiles whom he has gathered.

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I do have a question for you. Why do you think God established the Mosaic Law only for Israel and no other nation?

For the same reason that the Levites were the chosen tribe: to be an example to the surrounding nations through which the nations would receive God's blessing. Why do you ask what you already know?  

[saki_hanajima7]

This really made me think...I thought I'd share it with y'all. It's about the Christianity versus Homosexuality debate.

"In my opinion, if you hate somebody because they are different from you, you'd best get on your knees and repent until you can say you love them, until you have gotten your soul right with Christ.
I can't say this cleary enough: If we are preaching morality without Christ, and using war rhetoric to communicate a battle mentality, we are fighting on Satan's side. This battle we are in is a battle against the principalities of darkness, not against people who are different from us. In war you shoot the enemy, not the hostage."

-Donald Miller in Searching for God Knows What  

[Priestley]

Quote:

This really made me think...I thought I'd share it with y'all. It's about the Christianity versus Homosexuality debate.

"In my opinion, if you hate somebody because they are different from you, you'd best get on your knees and repent until you can say you love them, until you have gotten your soul right with Christ.
I can't say this cleary enough: If we are preaching morality without Christ, and using war rhetoric to communicate a battle mentality, we are fighting on Satan's side. This battle we are in is a battle against the principalities of darkness, not against people who are different from us. In war you shoot the enemy, not the hostage."

-Donald Miller in Searching for God Knows What

Hate shows itself in inaction and apathy.

If you see someone stumbling in the dark and you show them the way out of the darkness, you have loved them. You don't "shoot ... the hostage".  

[saki_hanajima7]

Priestley

Quote:

This really made me think...I thought I'd share it with y'all. It's about the Christianity versus Homosexuality debate.

"In my opinion, if you hate somebody because they are different from you, you'd best get on your knees and repent until you can say you love them, until you have gotten your soul right with Christ.
I can't say this cleary enough: If we are preaching morality without Christ, and using war rhetoric to communicate a battle mentality, we are fighting on Satan's side. This battle we are in is a battle against the principalities of darkness, not against people who are different from us. In war you shoot the enemy, not the hostage."

-Donald Miller in Searching for God Knows What

Hate shows itself in inaction and apathy.

If you see someone stumbling in the dark and you show them the way out of the darkness, you have loved them. You don't "shoot ... the hostage".

Yes.. I think that's what he was saying. It's like the whole hate the sin, love the sinner thing. But some people, by attacking homosexuals with hate, are in essence "shooting the hostage"  

[XXwhoknowsXX]

Knatalie9

I happen to be a pretty firm conservative... and honestly... I do believe that homosexuality is a sin. However, I don't think anyone but God has the right to condemn anyone to hell. Its not our place. Homosexuality isn't any more of a sin than lying, stealing, lusting, ect. And you shouldn't throw rocks if you live in a glass house. I am guilty of this as well. And we all need God's grace and love. Otherwise we are all condemned to hell.


End of story.

3nodding  

[zz1000zz]

XXwhoknowsXX

Knatalie9

I happen to be a pretty firm conservative... and honestly... I do believe that homosexuality is a sin. However, I don't think anyone but God has the right to condemn anyone to hell. Its not our place. Homosexuality isn't any more of a sin than lying, stealing, lusting, ect. And you shouldn't throw rocks if you live in a glass house. I am guilty of this as well. And we all need God's grace and love. Otherwise we are all condemned to hell.


End of story.

3nodding

You are nodding in agreement, but homosexuality is not a sin.

P.S. Mostly this was just to check to see if the quote tags really were fixed.  

[Combat Chuckles]

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=880

Lengthy, but a good read for understanding Old and New Testament and how they work together.  

[Priestley]

saki_hanajima7

Priestley

Quote:

This really made me think...I thought I'd share it with y'all. It's about the Christianity versus Homosexuality debate.

"In my opinion, if you hate somebody because they are different from you, you'd best get on your knees and repent until you can say you love them, until you have gotten your soul right with Christ.
I can't say this cleary enough: If we are preaching morality without Christ, and using war rhetoric to communicate a battle mentality, we are fighting on Satan's side. This battle we are in is a battle against the principalities of darkness, not against people who are different from us. In war you shoot the enemy, not the hostage."

-Donald Miller in Searching for God Knows What

Hate shows itself in inaction and apathy.

If you see someone stumbling in the dark and you show them the way out of the darkness, you have loved them. You don't "shoot ... the hostage".

Yes.. I think that's what he was saying. It's like the whole hate the sin, love the sinner thing. But some people, by attacking homosexuals with hate, are in essence "shooting the hostage"

Well, what he's saying is that sinners shouldn't be attacked at all. Resisted, yes, and taught the correct way, but not attacked at all.  

[Priestley]

zz1000zz

XXwhoknowsXX

Knatalie9

I happen to be a pretty firm conservative... and honestly... I do believe that homosexuality is a sin. However, I don't think anyone but God has the right to condemn anyone to hell. Its not our place. Homosexuality isn't any more of a sin than lying, stealing, lusting, ect. And you shouldn't throw rocks if you live in a glass house. I am guilty of this as well. And we all need God's grace and love. Otherwise we are all condemned to hell.


End of story.

3nodding

You are nodding in agreement, but homosexuality is not a sin.

I believe she meant homosexual behaviour, not the state of being attracted to the same gender.

zz1000zz

P.S. Mostly this was just to check to see if the quote tags really were fixed.

It would seem so.  

[Zolof Keeper Of Souls]

wat the heck that is not a rule you can totally get tatoos if you want to god did you use the oroginal translation for that or one of those that changes the words to "modern" writing.  

[Priestley]

rocklee3344

wat the heck that is not a rule you can totally get tatoos if you want to god did you use the oroginal translation for that or one of those that changes the words to "modern" writing.

Leviticus 19:28

"'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.'"

This includes things like scarification, tattooing, cutting, and various other things like it.  

[Edith Puthie]

Priestley

rocklee3344

wat the heck that is not a rule you can totally get tatoos if you want to god did you use the oroginal translation for that or one of those that changes the words to "modern" writing.

Leviticus 19:28

"'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.'"

This includes things like scarification, tattooing, cutting, and various other things like it.

I think that is pretty obvious. razz

Hmm, what about the arguement that we dont have to Follow the "old" rules?  

[Galad Aglaron]

Paranormal Zombiiie

Priestley

rocklee3344

wat the heck that is not a rule you can totally get tatoos if you want to god did you use the oroginal translation for that or one of those that changes the words to "modern" writing.

Leviticus 19:28

"'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.'"

This includes things like scarification, tattooing, cutting, and various other things like it.

I think that is pretty obvious. razz

Hmm, what about the arguement that we dont have to Follow the "old" rules?

Wasn't it Jesus who said that it was easier for heaven and earth to be destroyed than a letter of the Laws to become irrelevant?  

[Priestley]

Paranormal Zombiiie

Priestley

rocklee3344

wat the heck that is not a rule you can totally get tatoos if you want to god did you use the oroginal translation for that or one of those that changes the words to "modern" writing.

Leviticus 19:28

"'Do not cut your bodies for the dead or put tattoo marks on yourselves. I am the LORD.'"

This includes things like scarification, tattooing, cutting, and various other things like it.

I think that is pretty obvious. razz

Hmm, what about the arguement that we dont have to Follow the "old" rules?

Well, it's by the 'old' rules that our position in heaven will be judged, according to Jesus himself.