A bit confused regarding deities that I feel strongly toward

[Ulfrikr inn Hrafn]

CuAnnan

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

My main question is, whom is the Morrigan. From what I understand, the term is a title, rather than a particular goddess, and indeed, there are a number of goddesses whom seem to have been given the title of Morrigan at times. No doubt, there are some whom have fulfilled the role of Morrigan from time to time. So, in essence it should be A Morrigan, instead of THE Morrigan.

I am not a follower of the Morrigan. But in the epics, it's the Morrigan. And while it is a title, as opposed to a name, it refers to a Triune entity. As to how it works, I don't know, I have never bothered to ask. I am a priest of Annan. I don't need to know how the Morrigan works.

It needs firstly to be understood that I am viewing the matter from a more academic point of view, than one of having worked with the Morrigan. However, it needs to be established that some of the facets of the reference to Morrigan seem to be mirrored in the Valkyries.

I've read a bit of a Thesis on the Morrigan, and it seems from the research that Morrigan is a singular name and/or title, tied to the Ravens of Ireland. It is interesting to note the tie in of Valkyries with Ravens amongst the Germanic peoples. In essence she is an embodiment of the glory/horror of war in all its facets, especially when looked at from the context of war as practiced by the Celtic Folk, which is very similar in character to war as practiced by the Germanic Folk and Slavic Folk amongst others.

I can find no evidence for a Triple Goddess nature for the Morrigan, and indeed it seems from the research that such a notion is a modern invention of the 19th Century.

CuAnnan

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

It also appears that for someone whom is a goddess, historically there wasn't a cult of the Morrigan.

I'm not entirely sure where you're going with this.

Well, we have Cults of particular gods or goddesses. And much as can be said for say Loki, there is no cult of the Morrigan nor for Loki, but we can see that even if both are embellished, that they had a great level of significance to their relevant cultural contexts. So, whilst they may not be worshipped in the same way as the major gods and goddesses, they are still honoured. Indeed the love/hate relationship to be had with the Morrigan seems in certain framworks similar to the love/hate relationship that is embodied with Loki. Now, we need to understand that Loki and Morrigan are decidedly different in actual areas of action and influence, but their method of being deal with by the general population seems to have been similar.

Lets face it, the only people whom would be worshippers of the Morrigan, would undoubtedly not be the type to build temples to her. The ultimate expression of their worship would be in war and battle. Who needs a temple for such?

Ver thu heil  

[Deoridhe]

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

Lets face it, the only people whom would be worshippers of the Morrigan, would undoubtedly not be the type to build temples to her. The ultimate expression of their worship would be in war and battle. Who needs a temple for such?

Could this have an analog with followers of Loki being disinclined to build places of worship because their worship is in the breaking, bending, and otherwise twisting into interesting and sometimes aesthetically pleasing shapes the rules of society?  

[CricketBrain]

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

I've read a bit of a Thesis on the Morrigan, and it seems from the research that Morrigan is a singular name and/or title, tied to the Ravens of Ireland.

Is this Thesis publicly available?

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

It is interesting to note the tie in of Valkyries with Ravens amongst the Germanic peoples. In essence she is an embodiment of the glory/horror of war in all its facets, especially when looked at from the context of war as practiced by the Celtic Folk, which is very similar in character to war as practiced by the Germanic Folk and Slavic Folk amongst others.

I'm feeling inspired to recount on the
event that cemented my belief in Thor:

a thunderstorm was passing overhead, and I went outside, hailed Thor,
and was treated to a spectacular display of light and sound.
As things started to quiet down,
I got to thinking about ravens and crows,
and does there exist any kinship between Odin and the Morrigan,
when the shadow-cloaked vegetation in whose direction I looked
was illuminated electric green brighter than daylight by lightning
from behind. When it went dark again I turned around to see a
bolt of lightning, and a moment later the right-on-top-of-you
thunder that pricks every hair on the body.
What I got from that was a friendly but stern "proceed with care!"

CuAnnan

Deoridhe

I asked a friend of mine who has had dealings with The Morrigan and she got one of those funny looks on her face...

I've had the same funny look from those who deal with the Morrigan.

 

[Deoridhe]

CricketBrain

and does there exist any kinship between Odin and the Morrigan,

How are you defining kinship?  

[CricketBrain]

Deoridhe

CricketBrain

and does there exist any kinship between Odin and the Morrigan,

How are you defining kinship?

hm, now that you ask, I don't really know,
so maybe that's the wrong term.
Do they acknowledge each other?
If so, have they had any interaction that goes beyond simple acknowledgment?  

[Deoridhe]

CricketBrain

Deoridhe

CricketBrain

and does there exist any kinship between Odin and the Morrigan,

How are you defining kinship?

hm, now that you ask, I don't really know,
so maybe that's the wrong term.
Do they acknowledge each other?
If so, have they had any interaction that goes beyond simple acknowledgment?

Have you tried asking? I would, but usually when I ask my old man stuff he's insufferable, so I try to stick with big things instead of, "Do you ever go to the pub for a pint with her?"  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

Have you tried asking? I would, but usually when I ask my old man stuff he's insufferable, so I try to stick with big things instead of, "Do you ever go to the pub for a pint with her?"

Did you ever read the Super Bowl Thor and YHVH fic I wrote? twisted  

[Deoridhe]

TeaDidikai

Deoridhe

Have you tried asking? I would, but usually when I ask my old man stuff he's insufferable, so I try to stick with big things instead of, "Do you ever go to the pub for a pint with her?"

Did you ever read the Super Bowl Thor and YHVH fic I wrote? twisted

I think so. ^^  

[TeaDidikai]

Just for those of you looking for shits and Giggles...

I was on the bus yesterday going to my doctor's appointment when I noticed this woman wearing a black and maroon cloak.

For those of you who are thinking about this- middle of summer. HOT out. Huge, Bulky Heavy Cloak in dark colors.

~ahems~

Anyway- I notice that there are what appear to be fabric laurel leaves sewn onto the cloak. I complement her on it- and she says they are feathers and it is a tribute to The Morrigan, who is made up of Morgan La Fae, Brigit and Dana.  

[CuAnnan]

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

I've read a bit of a Thesis on the Morrigan, and it seems from the research that Morrigan is a singular name and/or title, tied to the Ravens of Ireland.

Got a source on that?
The name itself has nothing to with Ravens. It is, depending on who you ask, Otherly Queen or Great Queen.

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

It is interesting to note the tie in of Valkyries with Ravens amongst the Germanic peoples.

They are carion eaters, therefore connected with death and war

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

In essence she is an embodiment of the glory/horror of war in all its facets, especially when looked at from the context of war as practiced by the Celtic Folk, which is very similar in character to war as practiced by the Germanic Folk and Slavic Folk amongst others.

o.O I don't know that you can reduce a God to something as simple as the embodiment of war.  

[Ulfrikr inn Hrafn]

Deoridhe

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

Lets face it, the only people whom would be worshippers of the Morrigan, would undoubtedly not be the type to build temples to her. The ultimate expression of their worship would be in war and battle. Who needs a temple for such?

Could this have an analog with followers of Loki being disinclined to build places of worship because their worship is in the breaking, bending, and otherwise twisting into interesting and sometimes aesthetically pleasing shapes the rules of society?

There is far more evidence of the Morr'gan being integral to the Celtic Folkway than what Loki would have been to the Germanic. No doubt that if one was a Lokian in that time-frame that Loki seems to have been a part of Scandinavian literary work, then undoubtedly, the expression of such belief or operation would have been an active undertaking, and so yes, one could pre-suppose that it would have taken the form of behaviours which were outside the societal and traditional norms.  

[Ulfrikr inn Hrafn]

CricketBrain

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

I've read a bit of a Thesis on the Morrigan, and it seems from the research that Morrigan is a singular name and/or title, tied to the Ravens of Ireland.

Is this Thesis publicly available?

Yes, it most certainly is. The link is:

http://snlemons.iweb.bsu.edu/docs/Celtic/Morrigan Thesis.ZIP

Note that this takes you strait to a ZIP file, and that you'll need to open it in something like Microsoft Word (Open Office couldn't handle it, so I am guessing that it was written on Word for Mac).  

[Ulfrikr inn Hrafn]

CuAnnan

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

I've read a bit of a Thesis on the Morrigan, and it seems from the research that Morrigan is a singular name and/or title, tied to the Ravens of Ireland.

Got a source on that?
The name itself has nothing to with Ravens. It is, depending on who you ask, Otherly Queen or Great Queen.

Yep, posted the link in an earlier posting. And, um, well, read the Thesis and then see smile

Reminder, my interest in such is an academic exercise rather than anything else for me, as I focus on the Germanic Folkways, so I am approaching it from that angle, rather than an experiential belief angle.

CuAnnan

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

It is interesting to note the tie in of Valkyries with Ravens amongst the Germanic peoples.

They are carion eaters, therefore connected with death and war

Yes, and given some of the facets of the general attributation of the Morrigan, the connection seems to fit.

CuAnnan

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

In essence she is an embodiment of the glory/horror of war in all its facets, especially when looked at from the context of war as practiced by the Celtic Folk, which is very similar in character to war as practiced by the Germanic Folk and Slavic Folk amongst others.

o.O I don't know that you can reduce a God to something as simple as the embodiment of war.

Okay, depends on how you view war I suppose. It needs to be understood that war in a tribal culture is a far more complex beast than what we understand today by the term war. War in many ways is a social condition, and indeed from what I have studied so far, the standard condition between the Germanic Folk, was War. Indeed, the notions of Frith and Grith seem to be intimately tied into this notion, as does much of the concept of Germanic honour and social structure, especially of the more militant elements of society. Hence, for the Germanic Folk, War was a very complex and involved thing, something with far greater reach and implication than the mere martial process that we understand war to be today, and indeed, if one approaches say Ares and Mars from a similar perspective, before they were 'codified' and 'pidgeon-holed', then one makes far more sense of their characters as deities of 'war' in-so-far as war is a far broader classification.  

[Maze]

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

Indeed, the notions of Frith and Grith seem to be intimately tied into this notion, as does much of the concept of Germanic honour and social structure, especially of the more militant elements of society.

Could you pass me your definition of 'grith'? Google informs me it's things like "1. security, protection, or peace, esp. as guaranteed by someone or in some place 2. a sanctuary" (yourdictionary.com) or "Protection or sanctuary provided by Old English law to persons in certain circumstances, as when in a church or traveling on the king's highway" (answers.com) but as this is the first time I've even seen the word, and you're more than merely faintly useful when it comes to explaining things, I figure that might be conducive to my understanding of the word. o:

If that's it, though, that's.. good too. XD It's just that, usually, words from this corner tend to have levels, and most definitions tend not to be very good at showing those levels.  

[Ulfrikr inn Hrafn]

Maze

Ulfrikr inn Hrafn

Indeed, the notions of Frith and Grith seem to be intimately tied into this notion, as does much of the concept of Germanic honour and social structure, especially of the more militant elements of society.

Could you pass me your definition of 'grith'? Google informs me it's things like "1. security, protection, or peace, esp. as guaranteed by someone or in some place 2. a sanctuary" (yourdictionary.com) or "Protection or sanctuary provided by Old English law to persons in certain circumstances, as when in a church or traveling on the king's highway" (answers.com) but as this is the first time I've even seen the word, and you're more than merely faintly useful when it comes to explaining things, I figure that might be conducive to my understanding of the word. o:

If that's it, though, that's.. good too. XD It's just that, usually, words from this corner tend to have levels, and most definitions tend not to be very good at showing those levels.

Heilsan Maze ok Allir,

The definition is close enough. Essentially, Grith is a protection or sanctuary provided for a set period of time, or in a certain condition. Hence why in later times, it was moulded to mean something slightly different to the original definition. Indeed, Grith could be originally defined as having a meaning analogous to the word truce or cease-fire.

Where-as Grith is a temporary condition, i.e. it only lasts whilst in a certain place, or until a certain time-frame expires, Frith is a permanent condition but is specifically between those whom are related to one another, or those whom have formalised friendship and/or fellowship.

Ver thu heil