|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
 Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 3:09 pm
 |
|
|
 |
I've been a neopagan for about two years now. This does not coincide with my little adventure with witchcraft at around fourteen, which lasted on and off for about a year, and didn't do much for me, or really even change my monotheistic view. Then I started towards thinking of real polytheism. I was kind of disallusioned and bordering on atheism, but to make a long story short, my skepticism was purged. I threw myself into mythology and things like that pretty readily. For awhile I kept tripping up in Wiccan concepts, and just from the standpoint of coming out and affirming how I really felt theologically, I should have abandoned them altogether earlier than I did. There wasn't much room for it in the head of someone who is naturally inclined to defer to the most ancient sources- the ones with seniority- and Wicca didn't satisfy that.
Anyway, I had hardly heard of Slavic gods until recently. Those would theoretically be the gods that my mother's ancestors worshipped, at least the gods that were located in Russia or perhaps Ukraine. To me though, the Slavic neopagan movement on the whole seems so nationalistic that an American doesn't have a chance- even if he spoke real Russian, and not the pidgen-ish-abomination that I do. Now it seems that Romanus already said something similiar... well, what I wrote still stands. Plus as he mentioned, it seems hard to find sources, and I don't know which ones I can trust, other than a two or perhaps three sources that everyone seems to agree are at least partially genuine. I'm grasping at straws there.
|
|
|
|
|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Aug 18, 2008 4:52 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 9:55 pm
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Sun May 31, 2009 10:14 pm
|
|
|
|
I started studying via reading up on and researching the Egyptian gods (don't ask) in '96.
I then went through about two years of atheistic chaos magic type stuff, only recently gave away the last of the thought forms I created (didn't want to kill that one off, I grew attached to it for a while and felt a good home would be better than unmaking, furthermore it had enough sentience to pose a moral quandry).
Then I started studying the Annals when someone mentioned that the older recordings had less magic in them than the newer ones (again, don't ask). From there I devoted myself, at first, to a Genus Loci and then, as happens, outgrew it and left his service moving to the a reciprocal relationship with a Deity of Fate and devotion to and service of a shriving Goddess. The first relationship ended in a conflict of interests and I am, to this day, still a servant of Annan (no, that's not really where the name comes from).
Ten years from now I can't guarantee that I'll still be a priest of Annan, but who knows.
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 12:07 am
|
|
|
|
TeaDidikai Teague the Druid To me though, the Slavic neopagan movement on the whole seems so nationalistic that an American doesn't have a chance- even if he spoke real Russian, and not the pidgen-ish-abomination that I do. I didn't have a whole lot of trouble researching it myself. The biggest stumbling block was that you can't find a copy of the Book fo Veles in English to save your soul. But that's what makes Sivirs twenty shades of awesome! heart Bottom line: The bulk of the Slavic mythos varied from village to village and changed with it's rulers much like the Hellenic and Egyptian theology did. Also- there was no codified ideology until just prior to the conversion to Christendom. Unlike other traditions that have source texts that pre-date national conversion- the primary source for Slavic Paganism is their songs. Folksongs were perpetuated even after conversion with documentation as to their age and some of the folk traditions that one finds in more remote parts of Eastern Europe can be divided from the Christian overtones in a way that one cannot in cultures that were completely co-opted.
Wow, I completely missed this a year ago. Thanks for the resurrection, I guess. whee
At first, researching is incredibly difficult until you realize that you're coming at it from the wrong angle. Slavic paganism and Slavic gods aren't really in the realm of archeology and old poems in the way Hellenic gods are (not to lessen the legitimacy of them). The old religion didn't die out - it changed, it evolved. So it needs to be approached like any other living, breathing, modern religion - not necessarily as a reconstruction (at first).
About folk traditions: burning Morena before Easter is an excellent example of an ancient pagan tradition persisting after conversion. xd
It's not necessary to know a Slavic language, but it's sure damn helpful. Slovak has an extensive collection of folk music and poems, but very little of it is translated in English (and lacking a formal education in the language makes me weary of relying on my own translation). Now that I'm getting a formal education in Serbian, the extensive and easily accessible collections of folklore and music is increasingly helpful.
Also about language - I haven't found the Book of Veles to be that helpful for me. Perhaps about understanding Russian paganism and the mytho-history surrounding the origins of the Russians, but it just seemed to muddy the waters for me. Especially given its questionable authenticity. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 10:09 pm
|
|
|
|
Collowrath At first, researching is incredibly difficult until you realize that you're coming at it from the wrong angle. Slavic paganism and Slavic gods aren't really in the realm of archeology and old poems in the way Hellenic gods are
My experience is that the folk songs were analogous to the poetry (if considerably less formal in comparison to Hellenic Epics), and that archeology in the form of what we believe to have been votive offerings and some statues recovered along river beds and the like in the 1800's proved most useful. I found the pieces recovered from the cape of Arkona digs to be of huge importance.
Some of the information that came from people like Saxo Grammaticus and the like struck me as vastly important to the modern Slavic Pagan movement.
Quote: The old religion didn't die out -
Quote: About folk traditions: burning Morena before Easter is an excellent example of an ancient pagan tradition persisting after conversion. xd
Quote: Also about language - I haven't found the Book of Veles to be that helpful for me. Perhaps about understanding Russian paganism and the mytho-history surrounding the origins of the Russians, but it just seemed to muddy the waters for me. Especially given its questionable authenticity.
It reads a bit like saying a person should never pick up the KJV. Sure it's a crappy translation, but it is culturally relevant. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Mon Jun 01, 2009 11:14 pm
|
|
|
|
TeaDidikai Collowrath At first, researching is incredibly difficult until you realize that you're coming at it from the wrong angle. Slavic paganism and Slavic gods aren't really in the realm of archeology and old poems in the way Hellenic gods are This wasn't really my experience. My experience is that the folk songs were analogous to the poetry (if considerably less formal in comparison to Hellenic Epics), and that archeology in the form of what we believe to have been votive offerings and some statues recovered along river beds and the like in the 1800's proved most useful. I found the pieces recovered from the cape of Arkona digs to be of huge importance.
I should have said epics as opposed to poems - somehow my mind wasn't grasping at the time that songs are poems!
Yes, the archeological digs are incredibly helpful - I think what I was trying to emphasize was that it might be initially more helpful to look at existing cultural tradition to provide initial context.
Quote: Some of the information that came from people like Saxo Grammaticus and the like struck me as vastly important to the modern Slavic Pagan movement.
I'm not familiar with Saxo Grammaticus. redface Can you point me to some reading?
Quote: Quote: The old religion didn't die out - I'm afraid I can't agree. The religion did die out. Which is fine. I don't know many Slavic pagans that wish to construct huge Temples with twelve blood sacrifice alters. And that's okay.
Definitely true. I think the perspective I was presenting was that after Christianization, the churches became our "temples". What survived as folk tradition remained in the homes and continue.
Quote: Quote: About folk traditions: burning Morena before Easter is an excellent example of an ancient pagan tradition persisting after conversion. xd Justification as to why it's a pagan tradition and not a cultural one?
As far as I'm aware, the festival existed within a pagan context well before conversion, and exists now relatively the same as it was then - albeit with a paradigm shift in favor of Christianity. It might be more appropriate to say it's a cultural tradition with pagan roots.
Quote: Quote: Also about language - I haven't found the Book of Veles to be that helpful for me. Perhaps about understanding Russian paganism and the mytho-history surrounding the origins of the Russians, but it just seemed to muddy the waters for me. Especially given its questionable authenticity. Would you suggest that being familiar with one of the very influential sources within Slavic Paganism is a bad thing, even if you disagree with it's origins? It reads a bit like saying a person should never pick up the KJV. Sure it's a crappy translation, but it is culturally relevant.
Not at all - I'm simply saying it didn't resonate much on a personal level. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 3:37 am
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Posted: Tue Jun 02, 2009 8:32 am
|
|
|
|
Collowrath I should have said epics as opposed to poems - somehow my mind wasn't grasping at the time that songs are poems!
Quote: Yes, the archeological digs are incredibly helpful - I think what I was trying to emphasize was that it might be initially more helpful to look at existing cultural tradition to provide initial context.
Quote: I'm not familiar with Saxo Grammaticus. redface Can you point me to some reading?
Quote: Definitely true. I think the perspective I was presenting was that after Christianization, the churches became our "temples". What survived as folk tradition remained in the homes and continue.
Quote: As far as I'm aware, the festival existed within a pagan context well before conversion, and exists now relatively the same as it was then - albeit with a paradigm shift in favor of Christianity. It might be more appropriate to say it's a cultural tradition with pagan roots.
Quote: Not at all - I'm simply saying it didn't resonate much on a personal level. |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Reply
