Hiya! I'm new to the guild but...

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

In my area, at least, many groups of Christians believe that these things are actually what Christendom as a whole teaches. It kind of blurs the line between what's "Christians" and what's "Christianity". It's sad for people who honestly want to do right. sad  

[TeaDidikai]

Do they ignore the context of the Law of Agape?  

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

TeaDidikai

Do they ignore the context of the Law of Agape?

Not all, but many. They preach the Law of Agape as something that everyone should practice, but when it comes down to practical application of that law, many of the other things they teach and interpret are inherently against it. Some particularly sexist groups preach basically that the man is to do whatever he wants, no excuses, and the woman is to go along with it quietly - which overlooks Agape and the other half of the scripture reference they've based their incorrect teaching on.  

[TeaDidikai]

Daffodil the Destroyer

Some particularly sexist groups preach basically that the man is to do whatever he wants, no excuses, and the woman is to go along with it quietly

I find it hard to believe that they justify a breech of Agape with gender.

Do you have a citation for this denomination?  

[Reynai]

It's unfortunately fairly simple to avoid having to justify inconsistancies through judicious use of logical fallacies.

There's a Christian community in my hometown, that my parents were once a part of, where a similar thing took place; the men were the spiritual leaders, and the women were the caretakers, because 'that's how things are supposed to be so says the Bible'. Admittedly, the tales came entirely from her perspective, and were from 15-25 years prior, so things could definately have changed for the better in that time, and things could have been exaggerated.

While I do have a website for the community in question, it has little as far as pastoral/spiritual guidance.. and I'll admit a little leeriness in posting it as well, as I still live within 10 miles of the address listed, and two of the contact people on the front page were/are my godparents.  

[TeaDidikai]

Reynai

It's unfortunately fairly simple to avoid having to justify inconsistancies through judicious use of logical fallacies.

There's a Christian community in my hometown, that my parents were once a part of, where a similar thing took place; the men were the spiritual leaders, and the women were the caretakers, because 'that's how things are supposed to be so says the Bible'.

Actually- that is in scripture.

1Cr 7:34 and the bulk of 1Cr 11.  

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

TeaDidikai

Daffodil the Destroyer

Some particularly sexist groups preach basically that the man is to do whatever he wants, no excuses, and the woman is to go along with it quietly

I find it hard to believe that they justify a breech of Agape with gender.

Do you have a citation for this denomination?

Unfortunately, I have nothing to show you, because this is all stuff I have experienced personally, by talking to and studying the Bible with these people throughout high school and early college. Most of the people I've encountered who've held this attitude were Southern Baptists, who are quite predominant in this area. I've been searching some of the websites of churches from my hometown, but they simply don't have those resources on their sites.

Of course, that's not to say that all of the Southern Baptists around here are like that, but there are a staggering amount who are. One woman in particular had applied to work for my mother. My mother is pretty staunchly Christian, and the applicant even scared her - saying she just wasn't sure if she could work there, she had to ask her husband if it was okay... he wanted her to get a better job but he didn't want her to leave the old one in order to do so, and she needs to do what he says without question because the Bible says so (she literally was saying this to my mother in a place of business, when the subject of religion hadn't even come up). It wasn't just a casual mention either, she went way overboard. She was certainly one of the more 'eccentric' cases but she's by far not the only person I've met who thinks that the Bible commands women to be this way.  

[Reynai]

TeaDidikai

Actually- that is in scripture.

1Cr 7:34 and the bulk of 1Cr 11.

The translation that I have most available to me indicates it between husband and wife, yes; those specific passages don't seem to have anything in them to indicate that all the women of the community ought to serve and submit to all of the men however. Perhaps I communicated unclearly, as that was the meaning I intended. It was the norm, while my parents were members, for the women to care for the children, and do laundry, cook, and do other such 'womanly duties' for everyone at the community center, while the men relaxed and talked on various subjects, only joining them for the worship services.  

[TeaDidikai]

Daffodil, the issue I am having with your position is that it assumes that such is a matter of Church Teaching and not just people being crappy humans.

I mean- I know some chauvinist pigs, and a handful of them are Christian, a few of them are Atheist and almost half of the ones I know are actually Asatru.

Reynai>> Actually, the Greek used in the primary citations in 1Cr 11 is aner and gune- which is used as a generic term for men and women, the modifier for marriage being gameo.  

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

TeaDidikai

Daffodil, the issue I am having with your position is that it assumes that such is a matter of Church Teaching and not just people being crappy humans.

I mean- I know some chauvinist pigs, and a handful of them are Christian, a few of them are Atheist and almost half of the ones I know are actually Asatru.

Reynai>> Actually, the Greek used in the primary citations in 1Cr 11 is aner and gune- which is used as a generic term for men and women, the modifier for marriage being gameo.

On the whole, it's definitely not representative of most Christian denominations, or the majority of American or Independent Baptists... but with so many Southern Baptists I really do see so much of it, coming from the same individual churches, that I can't help but wonder if maybe some of those churches aren't at least preaching something that can easily be misinterpreted as sexism.  

[TeaDidikai]

Daffodil the Destroyer

but with so many Southern Baptists I really do see so much of it, coming from the same individual churches, that I can't help but wonder if maybe some of those churches aren't at least preaching something that can easily be misinterpreted as sexism.

Have you asked their ministers?

I mean- what I suspect is happening is that poor behavior on the part of a small group of arsehats draws attention more than the proper behavior of others.  

[Daffodil the Destroyer]

TeaDidikai

Daffodil the Destroyer

but with so many Southern Baptists I really do see so much of it, coming from the same individual churches, that I can't help but wonder if maybe some of those churches aren't at least preaching something that can easily be misinterpreted as sexism.

Have you asked their ministers?

I mean- what I suspect is happening is that poor behavior on the part of a small group of arsehats draws attention more than the proper behavior of others.

Honestly, I stay away from their churches whenever possible. I find the atmosphere overbearing and uncomfortable.  

[TeaDidikai]

Daffodil the Destroyer

Honestly, I stay away from their churches whenever possible. I find the atmosphere overbearing and uncomfortable.

Sorry to hear that.

How about via telephone?  

[Reynai]

My question, then, I suppose, is how does the situation not go against the law of agape? While it may be biblical -- it seems to me to contradict the meaning of agape, which seems as though it would be held as the higher law.

Or perhaps the vision of what I see as mysogyny offends me and I'm just looking for something by which to condemn it by within its own scriptures.  

[Ulfrikr inn Hrafn]

Dristinia

Never heard them called that before. sweatdrop does YHVH stand for anything?

Heilsan

Try this Link.

As an aside, it seems that YHVH is very similar in concept to that of the Germanic Ginnungagap, save for the fact that the Ginnungagap is asexual and a potentiality, but many of the root ideas seem to be very much akin. That being said, the very fact that YHVH is given a sex, and is therefore personified, makes for a very different feel, as the Ginnungagap is simply a state, and in fact, still actually exists.

Ver thu heil