This is a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway thread

[TeaDidikai]

sabaku-okami

they didn't say they added it twit, they just added it and said that it was always their. Also prove to me that your source is accurate.

Retract your flame and apologize for it, or you will be reported for your violation of the ToS.

Secondly, if you say they added it, prove it.

Cyrus the Elder

She hasn't even mentioned a ******** source, she hasn't even made a ******** claim as far as I can see.

I may have claimed it is part of Sacred Tradition. Can't recall and the ******** up formatting makes me less than interested in searching it out.

If I have claimed such, I would be happy to pull up the Catechism on the matter.  

[Aino Ailill]

TeaDidikai

sabaku-okami

they didn't say they added it twit, they just added it and said that it was always their. Also prove to me that your source is accurate.

Retract your flame and apologize for it, or you will be reported for your violation of the ToS.

Secondly, if you say they added it, prove it.

Cyrus the Elder

She hasn't even mentioned a ******** source, she hasn't even made a ******** claim as far as I can see.

I may have claimed it is part of Sacred Tradition. Can't recall and the ******** up formatting makes me less than interested in searching it out.

If I have claimed such, I would be happy to pull up the Catechism on the matter.

You did.

"None of which has been added to their scriptural canon.
They are part of sacred tradition. "  

[bigdickpenny]

How about we all just chill and leave it be. Their is no use in cursing or fighting it. Not one person will admit that they are wrong so let's let it be.  

[Ultramarine Violet]

TeaDidikai

Ultramarine Violet

Well, yeah - that's pretty much a given. But a willingness/ability to travel doesn't do much good if you don't know that there's going to be something useful at the end of it, IMO.

If you're called, then you find a lineaged coven. The first coven you find may not accept you- but if you're called, then the Lord and Lady will provide.

You have resources as well. Amber and Jet comes to mind.

Maybe I'm just waving a banner of ignorance, over here, but... Amber and Jet?  

[bigdickpenny]

Ultramarine Violet

TeaDidikai

Ultramarine Violet

Well, yeah - that's pretty much a given. But a willingness/ability to travel doesn't do much good if you don't know that there's going to be something useful at the end of it, IMO.

If you're called, then you find a lineaged coven. The first coven you find may not accept you- but if you're called, then the Lord and Lady will provide.

You have resources as well. Amber and Jet comes to mind.

Maybe I'm just waving a banner of ignorance, over here, but... Amber and Jet?

I'm not quite following either? Like the rock and the sap?  

[TeaDidikai]

Aino Ailill

You did.

"None of which has been added to their scriptural canon.
They are part of sacred tradition. "

Want the citation?

I'd be happy to demonstrate why Sacred Tradition is supported within the scripture.
Then I can pull the Catechism that talks about Sacred Tradition, then explain how it fits in with the vow of Chastity and the Seven Deadly Sins.

I can finish it off by explaining the exceptions to the vow of chastity. That said, it's a fair bit of work, so I'd rather only do it if folks actually wanted proof and don't accept these elements as part of common knowledge.

sabaku-okami

How about we all just chill and leave it be. Their is no use in cursing or fighting it. Not one person will admit that they are wrong so let's let it be.

You. You won't admit you were wrong.

I have nothing to admit, since I can provide citation and support for my argument.

Welcome to the definition of a Fluff. Someone who is willfully ignorant.

Ultramarine Violet

Maybe I'm just waving a banner of ignorance, over here, but... Amber and Jet?

Amber and Jet is a mailing list. They also have space for seekers to contact covens.  

[Cranium Squirrel]

sabaku-okami

Ultramarine Violet

Maybe I'm just waving a banner of ignorance, over here, but... Amber and Jet?

I'm not quite following either? Like the rock and the sap?

More like the mailing list. 3nodding It's one of the bigger ones for Wicca on the intertubes, and probably the best resource there is.  

[TeaDidikai]

Byaggha

sabaku-okami

Ultramarine Violet

Maybe I'm just waving a banner of ignorance, over here, but... Amber and Jet?

I'm not quite following either? Like the rock and the sap?

More like the mailing list. 3nodding It's one of the bigger ones for Wicca on the intertubes, and probably the best resource there is.

Are we familiar with any others?

I don't trust Witchvox because there's no verification system...  

[Cranium Squirrel]

TeaDidikai

Are we familiar with any others?

I don't trust Witchvox because there's no verification system...

If by we you mean me, no. But I haven't actively sought them out. I do run under the assumption there'd be others out there, however, simply because the Topic is so Hot. ninja  

[TeaDidikai]

Byaggha

If by we you mean me, no. But I haven't actively sought them out. I do run under the assumption there'd be others out there, however, simply because the Topic is so Hot. ninja

I was intending it as a general question.  

[Aino Ailill]

TeaDidikai

Aino Ailill

You did.

"None of which has been added to their scriptural canon.
They are part of sacred tradition. "

Want the citation?

I'd be happy to demonstrate why Sacred Tradition is supported within the scripture.
Then I can pull the Catechism that talks about Sacred Tradition, then explain how it fits in with the vow of Chastity and the Seven Deadly Sins.

I can finish it off by explaining the exceptions to the vow of chastity. That said, it's a fair bit of work, so I'd rather only do it if folks actually wanted proof and don't accept these elements as part of common knowledge.

I would be interested reading your demonstration of why Sacred Tradition is supported by Scripture. The other bits, I already have access to.  

[TeaDidikai]

Aino Ailill

I would be interested reading your demonstration of why Sacred Tradition is supported by Scripture. The other bits, I already have access to.

Chapter and verse?
Mat 16:19

Though as I recall there is a reiteration in Mat 18.  

[too2sweet]

As far as "Seekers Lists" A&J is the only one that I know of. For BTW info in general I usually point people to the Beginning Wicca group as well.

Witchvox is ok to at least look and see what's around, but you really have to do your homework and ask lots of questions if you do contact a group.  

[Nines19]

Anyone know where the stuff about "self-initiation" originated?

I know SRW spoke against it and Cunningham said that his trad was one without initiation at all, so I'm thinking it was someone else.
(I can provide citations on this, if requested.)  

[Ultramarine Violet]

Nines19

Anyone know where the stuff about "self-initiation" originated?

I know SRW spoke against it and Cunningham said that his trad was one without initiation at all, so I'm thinking it was someone else.
(I can provide citations on this, if requested.)

Actually, from what I've read, Cunningham seemed more to suggest that initiation was not a matter of formal ritual - casting circles, ritual contact of any particular form (I'm mostly thinking of the Five-Fold Kiss, here), any specific words or movements - but rather, that 'initiation' was a gradual, internal process gained from introspection and true dedication in the simplest sense. I'd have to go home and get my books to be certain, but I think he then followed with the assertion that such initiation was deeply personal, not to be taken lightly, and that ritual initiation was only important in the eyes of those who judge by the initiate's lineaged status or lack thereof.

Though it was almost certainly not Cunningham's idea first, I think that in lieu of more concrete data, we might consider the suggestion that the idea of gradual, indepenedent growth and opening toward a dedicated state, fully immersed in belief and awareness and so on, is the deep-buried root of the practice of self-initiation. That only you, yourself, can 'truly know' when you are sufficiently within a religion for it to be touching your life in a profound way seems like an idea that Fluffs would want to latch on to and signify through some elaborate ritual confirmation.

This is, of course, for lack of any evidence of factual history to be had from my limited mind. Please take with a huge grain of salt.