This is a stupid question but I'm going to ask anyway thread

[Adalyna]

TeaDidikai

I typically turn to etymology to deliver context when it comes to English because other cultures and languages often had formal titles for their otherlings that people who write books in English have a habit of homogenizing.

I am not sure exactly what you mean. I understand the word to be french, and derived from the latin, fate. I see what you mean, in that our concept of "faerie" in modern times derives its sources from numerous different cultures, depending on the particular being or myth. I guess what frustrates me, is that I believe more in the modern derivatives, rather than their cultural origins, that isn't to say that I'm trying to claim these cultures are 'wrong' or 'false' in their beliefs, but that my entities, are not theirs. I guess the beliefs themselves get hairy when some of them are still similar to their origins, while others are vastly removed, depending on the legend, and the story.

I guess my real problem is just that its hard to let go. Perhaps some other name besides "faerie" would be more accurate, and appropriate. I have to confess that although I'd rather err on the side of respect, I do have an attachment to the word and what it had come to mean to me. My beliefs in and of themselves are somewhat embarrassing to talk about to people with older, long standing traditions, but not as embarrassment, as this silly attachment, not to the set of beliefs but to a mere word. Forgive me I'm trying to sort out my confusion in my head as I ask this question. If anyone wants me to let the topic rest for a while, I'd be fine with that. I can ask again when I've had more time to sort this out, I don't mean to be a bother with "but, but but but... but... " questions.

As far as the previous poster I'm not very well aware of pathways of this nature, or of healing or alleviating arts other than just my own experiments, which haven't gone far. I'm not good at psychodrama or energy work when it comes to physical pain or injury I'm afraid, I'm the type who tells myself to stop scratching an itch while she's still scratching it :  

[Deoridhe]

Asahi Sara

What of elves, is there a point where a word falls into generic enough use not to presume that it speaks of a specific culture, or is using 'Elf' always referring to the elves in Asatru?

Slight correction - the individuals that were most likely turned into the fictional races of Elves and Dwarves were lightly the light Alfar and Swartalfar, not anything called Elves or Dwarves.

In general, I think you're struggling with the differences between mythological reality and fictional reality. They often seem to overlap and teasing them apart requires a lot of attention to detail.  

[Deoridhe]

Maze

Keeping in mind that I'm not, actually, Asatru, I do believe I've read that Asatruar (ack, with the thinger) is the proper way to denote someone who follows the Tao of the Asa.

There's also Vanatru, I think. For the Vanir?

But Deoridhe should probably be consulted in this case. 8D;

Finnish people have different names for what they do, because they kill and fool bears, post-death. And that's not mentioned anywhere in the Havamal as far as I'm aware.. >.>

I'm here. Kinda.

Some who worship just the Vanir call themselves Vanatru. I have no quarrel with them and consider us second cousins, if not closer kin.

I'm not sure what the Tao of the Asa is, though.... the Chinese concept of Tao doesn't translate smoothly in my brain to the Norse/Germanic ways.

Keep in mind that Asatru is unlikely to ever be as cohesive as, say, some sects of Christianity might be - or even Christianity as a whole. It is in the nature of polytheistic religions to spawn people with wildly diverging beliefs and practices depending on the gods they honor and the families they tie themselves to with will and oath.

I find being aware of the modern variations within Hinduism to be very reassuring in terms of how modern polytheism might look. For what it's worth.  

[Deoridhe]

Nines19

This seems like a really basic question, or something I should be sure of by now, but I'm not; is or is not Asatruar a/the proper name for those who practice Asatru?

Following that up with more of what seem like basic questions, are there any other names for them?
Is Asatru the correct term for the religion of anyone who worships the Norse pantheon, or are there other terms for more specific religions? If so what differentiates Asatru from these other religions?

And i see this after the other one. Sorry, my head is not entirely together tonight.

AsatruaR is the common name for people who are part of Asatru, which is one of the reconstructionalist religions using Norse and Germanic lore. Forn Sed is the other big one and is based more out of Europe (Asatru is more US). There is some hostility I have encountered from some European Heathens due to we USians poaching European gods and getting stuff wrong, but from what I understand from people who are part of Forn Sed, it's fairly friendly.

There may be other subgorupings, and there's a whole larking bunch who consider themselves Norse or Germanic Pagans, as well as some who cleave to one set of lore rather than drawing form the whole mess (which is somewhat easier, as the whole Nerthus/Njord issue doesn't come up - in a nutshell, Njord exists in the Norse and Nerthus in the Germanic, but neither the twain shall meet, so having a pantheon with both gets ....interesting).  

[Adalyna]

Deoridhe

Asahi Sara

What of elves, is there a point where a word falls into generic enough use not to presume that it speaks of a specific culture, or is using 'Elf' always referring to the elves in Asatru?

Slight correction - the individuals that were most likely turned into the fictional races of Elves and Dwarves were lightly the light Alfar and Swartalfar, not anything called Elves or Dwarves.

In general, I think you're struggling with the differences between mythological reality and fictional reality. They often seem to overlap and teasing them apart requires a lot of attention to detail.

I'm aware that "elf" is not the proper term in Asatru, however my question is, is calling them "elves" then not an honest way to distinct them from such? Pardon if I seem rude, I don't mean to be, I'm just horridly confused, probably for the same reasons. That said, I think for me to convert to an older tradition would be equally dishonest, because in my heart I would want to warp it to whatever I wanted it to be or to mean. I mean no disrespect towards Asaturar, I'm just trying to find my own path, and the line gets blurry around here, or perhaps it's my vision that is blurry.  

[Deoridhe]

Asahi Sara

Deoridhe

Asahi Sara

What of elves, is there a point where a word falls into generic enough use not to presume that it speaks of a specific culture, or is using 'Elf' always referring to the elves in Asatru?

Slight correction - the individuals that were most likely turned into the fictional races of Elves and Dwarves were lightly the light Alfar and Swartalfar, not anything called Elves or Dwarves.

In general, I think you're struggling with the differences between mythological reality and fictional reality. They often seem to overlap and teasing them apart requires a lot of attention to detail.

I'm aware that "elf" is not the proper term in Asatru, however my question is, is calling them "elves" then not an honest way to distinct them from such? Pardon if I seem rude, I don't mean to be, I'm just horridly confused, probably for the same reasons. That said, I think for me to convert to an older tradition would be equally dishonest, because in my heart I would want to warp it to whatever I wanted it to be or to mean. I mean no disrespect towards Asaturar, I'm just trying to find my own path, and the line gets blurry around here, or perhaps it's my vision that is blurry.

Oh gods, sweetie (do you mind if I call you sweetie?) you're not being rude. Actually, you're refreshingly curious and thoughtful. I'm sorry if I came across as stern or something; it has been a long and trying day, but I try to keep that aside. My apologies.

I would consider anyone using the term "elves" to be explicitly fictional in origin, and specifically fictional in the Tolkien/D&D tradition.

With Sidhe, Fae, Faerie, Fairy, etc.... I tend to look for context on whether it's fictional or not. The roleplay I'm involved in with a race of Fae, Demifae, Sidhe, and Elves is clearly fictional, though it draws heavily on Irish and German mythology as well (and we had an interesting discussion about how to draw the lines when mixing all of these things).

It's harder if you are approaching these ideas with religious intent, though, especially because - by and large - outside of the Sidhe many of these figures were less worshiped and more appeased.

The concept of appeasement is one I find gets lost in a lot of neopaganism due to a (this is not meant insultingly) Christian-inspired idea that the world was created for humanity and humanity is at the center of creation and thus all nature is good, kind, and interested in helping humanity. From what I have learned and read, the ancestors we are hearkening back to had no such assumption, and so many of the creatures we now thing are "cool" they thoughts were "dangerous".

I don't know where you are in these beliefs,and perhaps that's a place to start - by examining your worldview and how you fit in relationship with the other beings you have experienced, both corporeally and incorporeally. I will say that I was not aware that my worldview had shifted to one that implicitly included appeasement until years after I became Asatru, so my shift in this direction was unconscious rather than the conscious shift you may or may not want to make.  

[Adalyna]

Deoridhe

Asahi Sara

Deoridhe

Asahi Sara

What of elves, is there a point where a word falls into generic enough use not to presume that it speaks of a specific culture, or is using 'Elf' always referring to the elves in Asatru?

Slight correction - the individuals that were most likely turned into the fictional races of Elves and Dwarves were lightly the light Alfar and Swartalfar, not anything called Elves or Dwarves.

In general, I think you're struggling with the differences between mythological reality and fictional reality. They often seem to overlap and teasing them apart requires a lot of attention to detail.

I'm aware that "elf" is not the proper term in Asatru, however my question is, is calling them "elves" then not an honest way to distinct them from such? Pardon if I seem rude, I don't mean to be, I'm just horridly confused, probably for the same reasons. That said, I think for me to convert to an older tradition would be equally dishonest, because in my heart I would want to warp it to whatever I wanted it to be or to mean. I mean no disrespect towards Asaturar, I'm just trying to find my own path, and the line gets blurry around here, or perhaps it's my vision that is blurry.

Oh gods, sweetie (do you mind if I call you sweetie?) you're not being rude. Actually, you're refreshingly curious and thoughtful. I'm sorry if I came across as stern or something; it has been a long and trying day, but I try to keep that aside. My apologies.

I would consider anyone using the term "elves" to be explicitly fictional in origin, and specifically fictional in the Tolkien/D&D tradition.

With Sidhe, Fae, Faerie, Fairy, etc.... I tend to look for context on whether it's fictional or not. The roleplay I'm involved in with a race of Fae, Demifae, Sidhe, and Elves is clearly fictional, though it draws heavily on Irish and German mythology as well (and we had an interesting discussion about how to draw the lines when mixing all of these things).

It's harder if you are approaching these ideas with religious intent, though, especially because - by and large - outside of the Sidhe many of these figures were less worshiped and more appeased.

The concept of appeasement is one I find gets lost in a lot of neopaganism due to a (this is not meant insultingly) Christian-inspired idea that the world was created for humanity and humanity is at the center of creation and thus all nature is good, kind, and interested in helping humanity. From what I have learned and read, the ancestors we are hearkening back to had no such assumption, and so many of the creatures we now thing are "cool" they thoughts were "dangerous".

I don't know where you are in these beliefs,and perhaps that's a place to start - by examining your worldview and how you fit in relationship with the other beings you have experienced, both corporeally and incorporeally. I will say that I was not aware that my worldview had shifted to one that implicitly included appeasement until years after I became Asatru, so my shift in this direction was unconscious rather than the conscious shift you may or may not want to make.

Perhaps both "cool" and "dangerous" are the creatures of my specific, eclectic set of beliefs. I don't necessarily believe them to be benevolent, at least not, the majority of them, and the fiction that inspires the religious pursuit the most out of me, is the kind that scares me.

Appeasement in the same context as it was in an older tradition, is utterly impossible for me, because they wouldn't matter to me so much if I didn't have an admiration of some kind to them. Perhaps that admiration merely comes from them being something so outside of my reach or my understanding, and it's the mystery with which they tease me, that makes them so appealing to me. I wonder if I'd feel the same if their nature was easily known to me.

Suffice to say I am highly animistic (I believe that's the right word) and I don't interact too much with gods or deities, I'm by far, more interested in otherlings and if I believe they've any interest in me, it's not because there is something special about me or I was born with second sight, or some kind of nonsense, it's merely because I've shown interest in them in the first place. I don't exactly worship them. Not in the traditional sense of worship, but I believe in them and they are important to me. The otherlings I believe in, may not all be wicked or cruel, as perhaps they might have been in the older traditions, but I tend to believe that enough are that it's better to be safe than sorry.

And while the beauty of things that appear "magical" in a modern context entices and inspires me, I feel that the appearance of otherlings is where they begin to become thoughtforms, as I really doubt their appearance is so perfectly tailored, to appeal to my feeble imagination of the cosmos.

I also to believe in gods of a highly localized sort, again not associated with specific traditions, just that i believe that "summer" and "spring" in one particular area has a conscious spiritual embodiment. I really need to post this stuff in my pathways thread. Sweetie is fine, it reminds me that there's no hostility between us<3 I tend to be very scared actually when addressing this guild, thinking that I will make some kind of horrible faux pas and not realize it until it is too late.  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

Oh gods, sweetie (do you mind if I call you sweetie?) you're not being rude. Actually, you're refreshingly curious and thoughtful.

She reminds me of me back in the day, minus the huge cultural advantage I have.

Hey Maze>> What you're doing reminds me of a personal system I have. Don't quite know how to teach it, so that's pretty much completely useless to you. My stand in would be to suggest you learn Reiki.  

[Nines19]

Deoridhe

Nines19

This seems like a really basic question, or something I should be sure of by now, but I'm not; is or is not Asatruar a/the proper name for those who practice Asatru?

Following that up with more of what seem like basic questions, are there any other names for them?
Is Asatru the correct term for the religion of anyone who worships the Norse pantheon, or are there other terms for more specific religions? If so what differentiates Asatru from these other religions?

And i see this after the other one. Sorry, my head is not entirely together tonight.

AsatruaR is the common name for people who are part of Asatru, which is one of the reconstructionalist religions using Norse and Germanic lore. Forn Sed is the other big one and is based more out of Europe (Asatru is more US). There is some hostility I have encountered from some European Heathens due to we USians poaching European gods and getting stuff wrong, but from what I understand from people who are part of Forn Sed, it's fairly friendly.

There may be other subgorupings, and there's a whole larking bunch who consider themselves Norse or Germanic Pagans, as well as some who cleave to one set of lore rather than drawing form the whole mess (which is somewhat easier, as the whole Nerthus/Njord issue doesn't come up - in a nutshell, Njord exists in the Norse and Nerthus in the Germanic, but neither the twain shall meet, so having a pantheon with both gets ....interesting).

Thank you.

So the best thing to call someone who you know follows Norse deities but don't know if they consider themselves Asatruar is "Norse pagan"?
(For example, "I know a Norse pagan who believes such and such about Odin." )  

[Maze]

TeaDidikai

Hey Maze>> What you're doing reminds me of a personal system I have. Don't quite know how to teach it, so that's pretty much completely useless to you. My stand in would be to suggest you learn Reiki.

Well, it's good to know there's something out there that I can look into. Thanks!

I think I know someone who knows Reiki.. Been a while since I talked to her. Reiki uses symbols that I can ask really annoying questions about, I think! That'll be fun. :3

I should also try and find a way to get my schedule to fit Tai Chi lessons..

@Asahi: Thank you anyway. smile  

[rmcdra]

What is the difference between a living tradition and eclecticism?  

[Adalyna]

Ok simpler question this time:

Can a thoughtform be a place or object as well as an entity? If you believed an entire other world exists for example, by virtue of the fact that you believe in it or that you and a group of people do, does that make it a thoughtform world?  

[bigdickpenny]

Asahi Sara

Deoridhe

Asahi Sara

What of elves, is there a point where a word falls into generic enough use not to presume that it speaks of a specific culture, or is using 'Elf' always referring to the elves in Asatru?

Slight correction - the individuals that were most likely turned into the fictional races of Elves and Dwarves were lightly the light Alfar and Swartalfar, not anything called Elves or Dwarves.

In general, I think you're struggling with the differences between mythological reality and fictional reality. They often seem to overlap and teasing them apart requires a lot of attention to detail.

I'm aware that "elf" is not the proper term in Asatru, however my question is, is calling them "elves" then not an honest way to distinct them from such? Pardon if I seem rude, I don't mean to be, I'm just horridly confused, probably for the same reasons. That said, I think for me to convert to an older tradition would be equally dishonest, because in my heart I would want to warp it to whatever I wanted it to be or to mean. I mean no disrespect towards Asaturar, I'm just trying to find my own path, and the line gets blurry around here, or perhaps it's my vision that is blurry.

Ljósálfar is the "light elf" and the Svartálfar were the "black elves" or drawfs. I've stayed true to what the poems say. Just use what ever works, that is what I have done. I just love my blood line and I take great pride in it. Asatru may be in Europe but I have their blood in me and as long as you belive in yourself and you have the heart of a nord, then in my book you are one. It doesn't matter where you live or what race you are. Its your heart that matters the most. If you want to warp a religion to your will try a mono god religion lol.  

[Adalyna]

sabaku-okami

Asahi Sara

Deoridhe

Asahi Sara

What of elves, is there a point where a word falls into generic enough use not to presume that it speaks of a specific culture, or is using 'Elf' always referring to the elves in Asatru?

Slight correction - the individuals that were most likely turned into the fictional races of Elves and Dwarves were lightly the light Alfar and Swartalfar, not anything called Elves or Dwarves.

In general, I think you're struggling with the differences between mythological reality and fictional reality. They often seem to overlap and teasing them apart requires a lot of attention to detail.

I'm aware that "elf" is not the proper term in Asatru, however my question is, is calling them "elves" then not an honest way to distinct them from such? Pardon if I seem rude, I don't mean to be, I'm just horridly confused, probably for the same reasons. That said, I think for me to convert to an older tradition would be equally dishonest, because in my heart I would want to warp it to whatever I wanted it to be or to mean. I mean no disrespect towards Asaturar, I'm just trying to find my own path, and the line gets blurry around here, or perhaps it's my vision that is blurry.

Ljósálfar is the "light elf" and the Svartálfar were the "black elves" or drawfs. I've stayed true to what the poems say. Just use what ever works, that is what I have done. I just love my blood line and I take great pride in it. Asatru may be in Europe but I have their blood in me and as long as you belive in yourself and you have the heart of a nord, then in my book you are one. It doesn't matter where you live or what race you are. Its your heart that matters the most. If you want to warp a religion to your will try a mono god religion lol.

I'm not a Nord nor claiming to be, though I strongly considered converting to this religion. I'm making sure I'm not misrepresenting the norse religion, by the terms I use, which it seems more apparent that I am. I pray my beliefs are not the taking of a religion and warping it into my desires, but the making of my own.  

[rmcdra]

sabaku-okami

If you want to warp a religion to your will try a mono god religion lol.

I feel confident you meant this in jest but this comment just struck me wrong. I've had to warp my will to better serve my God more times than I can count.