Please help; beginner who needs a LOT help deciding

[TeaDidikai]

Saint Of Demons

Yea yea I get it...I just have no clue where to start....sorry Tea I just got a little frustrated and I had a little....argument going on with someone else on PM's I was stupid to reply while I was pissed....

Apology accepted.

Quote:

Is there any suggestion where i should start though?

My suggestion is to start with Christendom.

Saint Of Demons

you haven't helped at all...i'm yet more confused than i was before...

I did help. If I hadn't, you wouldn't be more confused.

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you asume too much you are judging someone you know hardly anything about.

Actually, I know you don't know much of anything about Christendom, otherwise you wouldn't be asking us for information on it's magical systems.

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I how ever cannot see the beauty in their theology that is me if you have a problem with it don't comment on it; it is as simple as that.

Do not asume i do not look hard, mind you I have.

If you had done research, you would have found out about the Lesser and Greater Seals long before you came to the Rehab Guild.

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Perhaps the reason you think I haven't is simply the fact you do not know enough which you (out of how you type) think you do. I am not saying you don't it is merely the same thing you said. You said i know nothing of the chritian theology which is utterly wrong.

rofl

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I do not see the beauty in it because the beauty in it fails to apply to my life perhaps you did not take that into consideration? perhaps you should.

Film Class is love.
Vader's Redemption story is classic Christian allegory.

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I won't go into detail as to why it doesn't apply but it doesn't and to me makes no sense at all.

Perhaps because you are missing key points of information.

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So please do not persue the fact that I do not see beauty in christianity.
Unless you will help and give suggestions off my first post please leave you have been scrutenizing my posts which may do something in other threads but as i see them do not help me.

I'll just pretend that this was covered in the apology.

Quote:

You have managed to teach me two things though
1. Pagan gods are not always mortal, smart, powerful, ect.
2. Luciferian Witchcraft may be a path for me.

I taught you no such things.

Further- you have no idea what kind of Luciferian Witchcraft I am addressing.

Quote:

I am here for help more than i am for people to tell me that I am utterly mistaken as I am so often. Please give help if you can instead of disecting my posts and pointing out every little bit of information that is wrong. I am new to pagan practises and religions if you did not notice and do not know everything you do.

Thus my suggestion to you is:

Go read the following books:

The Interlinear Bible
The Gospel of Mary
The Gospel of Thomas
The Gospel of Truth
The Gospel of Judas
The Gospel of Philip
The Odes of Solomon
The Secret Book of James
The Treatise on the Resurrection
The Tripartite Tractate
The Hypostasis of the Archons
On the Origin of the World
The Exegesis on the Soul
The Book of Thomas the Contender
The Apocryphon of John
The Gospel of the Egyptians
Eugnostos the Blessed
The Sophia of Jesus Christ
The Dialogue of the Saviour
The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles
The Thunder, Perfect Mind
Authoritative Teaching
The Concept of Our Great Power
The Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth
The Prayer of Thanksgiving
The Paraphrase of Shem
The Second Treatise of the Great Seth
The Teachings of Silvanus
The Three Steles of Seth
Melchizedek
The Thought of Norea
The Testimony of truth
Pistis Sophia
The Zohar
Sepher Yezirah
Enochian Magic Archives
The Call of Enoch
Triumphal Chariot of Antimony by Basil Valentine
Golden Chain of Homer
Emerald Tablet of Hermes
Glory of the World
The Six Keys of Eudoxus
Freher's Process in the Philosophical Work
The Golden Tractate of Hermes Trismegistus
Edit: The Garden of Pomegranates
The Middle Pillar


And last but not least....

The Hermetic Arcanum

Rookherst[KOS]

tsch. You ruined the Joke! It's the oldest mystic Practical Joke ever, get someone to ask "where the Grimoires are hidden" and then only receive the answer "in the sock drawer".

way to go. *huff*

Pish.
You'll live.

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Ya. I was going to counter crap about the Snake being "evil" citing all that stuff, thanks for beating me to the punch crying

I'm just a big meanie.

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To be honest, I think i might Prefer sticking "Socratic" or "Platonic" in front of the word, which would force people to actually....figure out that it isn't referencing something from the Blade movies.

I ask because I personally go with Supernal and Infernal.

Quote:

In references to what?

I guess, I mean...I just can never back Luciferanism. Not until I find a Lucifarian Group which actually Acknowledges his Gnostic Roots.

And Even then, in here case I would still suggest a More Hermetic path.

Lucifer. But I can understand your position.

Of note- I'm not sure it is in his best interest to have his face eaten by an Infernal. With luck, he'll actually go through the reading list I gave him.

While I have no interest in protecting unknown fools from themselves, I also feel bad for the people who have to clean up after them.

PS: Rook, feel free to add Gnostic Gospels to my list. I know I am missing a few.  

[TeaDidikai]

Saint Of Demons

ok...just out of curiousity are there any witchcraft practises that do not involve a hierarchy god?

Lots. Chaos Magic. Generic neo-pagan magic. Atheistic Satanism- Anton wrote The Satanic Witch I believe.

Rookherst[KOS]

I SERIOUSLY would not recommend doing any of this; even I know all the proper ways and rituals but do not preform them

(i'm a wuss, who knows he is accident prone)

This should be taken as a big warning. Pay close attention.

Saint Of Demons

ok...is there anything i should learn and "master" before i attempt these?

Spelling and grammer.

An intimate understanding of the Hebrew Alphabet.

A working understanding of QBL.

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say lower magic and stuff? just to get accustomed to performing magic?

Magic 101 wouldn't hurt.
Grounding, Centering, Shielding.

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you mention greater key of solomon...or is that for after i read the others?

Depends. Myself, I would be more at ease working with Goetic spirits than fragments of YHVH's will- especially if you assert you are not interested in working with YHVH.

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are they hard to understand? like say big words (childish way of putting it sweatdrop ) or anything like that?

They are complicated. Large words in languages you don't understand where precision is key to prevent them from eating your face.

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and I'm curious as to what are the risks/results say i should fail or provoke a demon?

Best case:
They don't come when you call.

Worst case- you end up husked- poluted and/or insane.

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i don't have to learn a language to accomplish these do i? like say latin?

As a matter of fact- yes. Several.
Enochian, Greek, Latin, Hebrew and a couple others, and more esoteric forms of those listed as well- all depending on which sources you use.  

[Saint Of Demons]

1.

TeaDidikai

Saint Of Demons

ok...just out of curiousity are there any witchcraft practises that do not involve a hierarchy god?

Lots. Chaos Magic. Generic neo-pagan magic. Atheistic Satanism- Anton wrote The Satanic Witch I believe.

2.

Rookherst[KOS]

I SERIOUSLY would not recommend doing any of this; even I know all the proper ways and rituals but do not preform them

(i'm a wuss, who knows he is accident prone)

This should be taken as a big warning. Pay close attention.

3.

Saint Of Demons

ok...is there anything i should learn and "master" before i attempt these?

Spelling and grammer.

An intimate understanding of the Hebrew Alphabet.

A working understanding of QBL.

4.

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say lower magic and stuff? just to get accustomed to performing magic?

Magic 101 wouldn't hurt.
Grounding, Centering, Shielding.

5.

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you mention greater key of solomon...or is that for after i read the others?

Depends. Myself, I would be more at ease working with Goetic spirits than fragments of YHVH's will- especially if you assert you are not interested in working with YHVH.

6.

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are they hard to understand? like say big words (childish way of putting it sweatdrop ) or anything like that?

They are complicated. Large words in languages you don't understand where precision is key to prevent them from eating your face.

7.

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and I'm curious as to what are the risks/results say i should fail or provoke a demon?

Best case:
They don't come when you call.

Worst case- you end up husked- poluted and/or insane.

8.

Quote:

i don't have to learn a language to accomplish these do i? like say latin?

As a matter of fact- yes. Several.
Enochian, Greek, Latin, Hebrew and a couple others, and more esoteric forms of those listed as well- all depending on which sources you use.

Fine I'll use better spelling & grammar if it bothers you that much.

The books you listed; they aren't long reads are they? They stay in the low hundreds of pages or less...I hope.

1. Oh I see...

2. So when Rook says something is not recommended whatever he has said is not recommended is definitely to be taken with great caution?

3. I can spell and use grammar correctly I've just become accustom to not using it on the computer.
So basically memorize the Hebrew Alphabet?
What does QBL stand for? I know I could Google it but chances are I'd pick the wrong thing lol

4. I'll guess and say this means there are more books I need to read?

5. YHVH stands for?

6. I could've guessed they were complicated on my own.
So I'm guessing along with the massive amount of books I need to acquire there is also a need for many foreign language dictionaries?

7. I though the goal was to get them to come without getting yourself killed...
Damn...
Does the worst case happen often? Or just when you not careful and you piss off the spirit/demon?

8. As I guessed...
So not all the sources are translated into English?
Mostly what I meant by that question was do the spirits/demons speak in different languages I would have to learn.  

[TeaDidikai]

Saint Of Demons

Fine I'll use better spelling & grammar if it bothers you that much.

I'm dyslexic. It was difficult to read your post.

But I wasn't being snarky about using proper spelling and grammar. The linguistic element of the kind of magic we are talking about can be very precise.

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The books you listed; they aren't long reads are they? They stay in the low hundreds of pages or less...I hope.

Allow me to be Nice for a moment.

If you don't want to learn- if you want a quick fix to power- I strongly suggest you find something other than magic to fill that.

You've expressed interest in a form of magic that takes years, sometimes decades even lifetimes to learn and master.

Your intellectual laziness will bring messy things upon you- no matter what you are working with.

The books I listed are a foundation of spiritual practice, mysticism and gnosis. Please tell me you understand this?

Quote:

2. So when Rook says something is not recommended whatever he has said is not recommended is definitely to be taken with great caution?

Allow me to explain.
Rook has shown himself to be of an intellectual caliber that he has earned as much trust to work with the Keys as anyone else I have such respect for but have not met face to face.

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3. I can spell and use grammar correctly I've just become accustom to not using it on the computer.

Get back in the habit. Not all of Gaia holds such loose standards.

Quote:

So basically memorize the Hebrew Alphabet?

And the meanings behind them.

Within the Hebrew Alphabet is the song of YHVH's creation in some mystic traditions and they are used in the Seals a great deal.
The numerology can be important as well.

Quote:

What does QBL stand for? I know I could Google it but chances are I'd pick the wrong thing lol

Quabalism (or any of twenty other ways of spelling it)

Quote:

4. I'll guess and say this means there are more books I need to read?

Perhaps. However, grounding, centering and warding is so common place even the internet can hold useful information on it. In fact, I think in this guild there is a thread where we discussed this. But you'll have to search for it.

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5. YHVH stands for?

It doesn't stand for anything. It's the name of the god you followed.

Quote:

6. I could've guessed they were complicated on my own.
So I'm guessing along with the massive amount of books I need to acquire there is also a need for many foreign language dictionaries?

Dictionaries alone won't cut it. You'll need to learn the language so you can grasp the linguistic nuances.

Quote:

7. I though the goal was to get them to come without getting yourself killed...
Damn...
Does the worst case happen often? Or just when you not careful and you piss off the spirit/demon?

Often is subjective. I have known a fair few people who work with this stuff that have gone quite mad. I would have laid better odds for them that I would for you.

Although, to be fair, death and madness aren’t mutually exclusive.

These practices are perfectly safe if you do them correctly. However, the intricate nature of the practice makes plenty of room for error.

I mean, the subtle difference in pronunciation between a couple beings names can render a sigil useless.

Quote:

8. As I guessed...
So not all the sources are translated into English?

Even if they were- it is a false assumption in a system where letters and sounds have power to assume that it translates from one language to another.

Quote:

Mostly what I meant by that question was do the spirits/demons speak in different languages I would have to learn.

That would very well depend on the spirit in question now wouldn't it?  

[Rookherst[KOS]]

The Gnostic Gospels


Codex I (The Jung Codex)

1. The Prayer of the Apostle Paul
2. The Apocryphon of James:
* (Williams translation)
* (Cameron translation)
3. The Gospel of Truth:*
* (Grant translation)
* (Attridge & MacRae translation)
4. The Treatise on the Resurrection
5. The Tripartite Tractate

Codex II

1. The Apocryphon of John* (long version)
2. The Gospel of Thomas:
* (Patterson & Meyer translation)
* (Lambdin translation)
* (Patterson & Robinson Translation)
* (Grondin interlinear translation)
3. The Gospel of Philip
4. The Hypostasis of the Archons
5. On the Origin of the World*
6. The Exegesis on the Soul
7. The Book of Thomas the Contender

Codex III

1. The Apocryphon of John* (short version)
2. The Gospel of the Egyptians*
3. Eugnostos the Blessed*
4. The Sophia of Jesus Christ
5. The Dialogue of the Savior

Codex IV

1. The Apocryphon of John* (long version)
2. The Gospel of the Egyptians*

Codex V

1. Eugnostos the Blessed*
2. The Apocalypse of Paul
3. The (First) Apocalypse of James
4. The (Second) Apocalypse of James
5. The Apocalypse of Adam

Codex VI

1. The Acts of Peter and the Twelve Apostles
2. The Thunder, Perfect Mind
3. Authoritative Teaching
4. The Concept of Our Great Power
5. Plato, Republic 588A-589B
6. The Discourse on the Eighth and Ninth
7. The Prayer of Thanksgiving
8. Asclepius 21-29

Codex VII

1. The Paraphrase of Shem
2. The Second Treatise of the Great Seth
3. The Apocalypse of Peter
4. The Teachings of Silvanus
5. The Three Steles of Seth

Codex VIII

1. Zostrianos
2. The Letter of Peter to Philip

Codex IX

1. Melchizedek
2. The Thought of Norea
3. The Testimony of Truth

Codex X

1. Marsanes

Codex XI

1. The Interpretation of Knowledge
2. A Valentinian Exposition
2a. On the Anointing
2b. On the Baptism A
2c. On the Baptism B
2d. On the Eucharist A
2e. On the Eucharist B
3. Allogenes
4. Hypsiphrone

Codex XII

1. The Sentences of Sextus
2. The Gospel of Truth:*
* (Grant translation)
* (Attridge & MacRae translation)
3. Fragments (translation not provided here)

Codex XIII

1. Trimorphic Protennoia
2. On the Origin of the World*  

[TeaDidikai]

Rook>>
I did have most of them, as well as a foundation for other spiritual practices. I skipped Thelema completely of course.

Saint>> Tell you what. Skip everything Rook and I have been talking about and go buy Konstantinos' books and call it even.

They're all pretty short and most of them are only $15.  

[Rookherst[KOS]]

TeaDidikai

Saint>> Tell you what. Skip everything Rook and I have been talking about and go buy Konstantinos' books and call it even.
They're all pretty short and most of them are only $15.

Thats' not Fun. I love the hunt for a Grimoire!  

[TeaDidikai]

Rookherst[KOS]

TeaDidikai

Saint>> Tell you what. Skip everything Rook and I have been talking about and go buy Konstantinos' books and call it even.
They're all pretty short and most of them are only $15.

Thats' not Fun. I love the hunt for a Grimoire!

I'm serious.

Konstantinos is right up this guy's alley. Do you expect him to read Agripa?  

[Rookherst[KOS]]

TeaDidikai

I'm serious.
Konstantinos is right up this guy's alley. Do you expect him to read Agripa?

Meh. I think if your not willing to go the extra 10 miles for mystical pursuit, just stop. Don't bother.

Magic in any form does not make life easier, and the life of a mystic filled with Turmoil and strife.

As for Konstantinos, I guess...his whole Gothic Motif reminds me about how I'm STILL debating if I wanna join Dragon Rouge or not.  

[TeaDidikai]

Rookherst[KOS]

TeaDidikai

I'm serious.
Konstantinos is right up this guy's alley. Do you expect him to read Agripa?

Meh. I think if your not willing to go the extra 10 miles for mystical pursuit, just stop. Don't bother.

Magic in any form does not make life easier, and the life of a mystic filled with Turmoil and strife.

Second.

Quote:

As for Konstantinos, I guess...his whole Gothic Motif reminds me about how I'm STILL debating if I wanna join Dragon Rouge or not.

My thoughts exactly. Which is why I think it might be perfect for this guy.

Mind you, a Chaos Magician with a Konstantinos paradigm would be far more interesting- but as twas said eariler, not everything has an interesting story.  

[Rookherst[KOS]]

Soma bish, now I'm considering getting his stupid Nocturnal witch book ><

Simply because I'm so connected to the moon  

[TeaDidikai]

Rookherst[KOS]

Soma bish, now I'm considering getting his stupid Nocturnal witch book ><

Simply because I'm so connected to the moon

Heh. Actually, for what it was, the Nocturnicon was rather amusing.  

[Saint Of Demons]

TeaDidikai

Saint Of Demons

Fine I'll use better spelling & grammar if it bothers you that much.

I'm dyslexic. It was difficult to read your post.

But I wasn't being snarky about using proper spelling and grammar. The linguistic element of the kind of magic we are talking about can be very precise.

Quote:

The books you listed; they aren't long reads are they? They stay in the low hundreds of pages or less...I hope.

Allow me to be Nice for a moment.

If you don't want to learn- if you want a quick fix to power- I strongly suggest you find something other than magic to fill that.

You've expressed interest in a form of magic that takes years, sometimes decades even lifetimes to learn and master.

Your intellectual laziness will bring messy things upon you- no matter what you are working with.

The books I listed are a foundation of spiritual practice, mysticism and gnosis. Please tell me you understand this?

Quote:

2. So when Rook says something is not recommended whatever he has said is not recommended is definitely to be taken with great caution?

Allow me to explain.
Rook has shown himself to be of an intellectual caliber that he has earned as much trust to work with the Keys as anyone else I have such respect for but have not met face to face.

Quote:

3. I can spell and use grammar correctly I've just become accustom to not using it on the computer.

Get back in the habit. Not all of Gaia holds such loose standards.

Quote:

So basically memorize the Hebrew Alphabet?

And the meanings behind them.

Within the Hebrew Alphabet is the song of YHVH's creation in some mystic traditions and they are used in the Seals a great deal.
The numerology can be important as well.

Quote:

What does QBL stand for? I know I could Google it but chances are I'd pick the wrong thing lol

Quabalism (or any of twenty other ways of spelling it)

Quote:

4. I'll guess and say this means there are more books I need to read?

Perhaps. However, grounding, centering and warding is so common place even the internet can hold useful information on it. In fact, I think in this guild there is a thread where we discussed this. But you'll have to search for it.

Quote:

5. YHVH stands for?

It doesn't stand for anything. It's the name of the god you followed.

Quote:

6. I could've guessed they were complicated on my own.
So I'm guessing along with the massive amount of books I need to acquire there is also a need for many foreign language dictionaries?

Dictionaries alone won't cut it. You'll need to learn the language so you can grasp the linguistic nuances.

Quote:

7. I though the goal was to get them to come without getting yourself killed...
Damn...
Does the worst case happen often? Or just when you not careful and you piss off the spirit/demon?

Often is subjective. I have known a fair few people who work with this stuff that have gone quite mad. I would have laid better odds for them that I would for you.

Although, to be fair, death and madness aren’t mutually exclusive.

These practices are perfectly safe if you do them correctly. However, the intricate nature of the practice makes plenty of room for error.

I mean, the subtle difference in pronunciation between a couple beings names can render a sigil useless.

Quote:

8. As I guessed...
So not all the sources are translated into English?

Even if they were- it is a false assumption in a system where letters and sounds have power to assume that it translates from one language to another.

Quote:

Mostly what I meant by that question was do the spirits/demons speak in different languages I would have to learn.

That would very well depend on the spirit in question now wouldn't it?

I guess i could understand that then...

Ok misunderstanding on someones end there...I never meant to get the point across that I do not want to read them or anything of the nature. The question was for a different perpose; I run tight on space and I'm an organization freak so...I kinda wanted to know how much space we would be talking about whether I'd have to pack all my "leisure" books in a box and use the book shelf space for these books or not that's all I meant by the question not that I was expressing intellectual laziness.

I quite like the fact that this requires a lot of information to be learnt.

I do understand this and I agree with Rook's later post if you don't go the extra 10 miles it isn't worth going at all...

I see...

Yea I noticed sweatdrop

So I need to memorize the Hebrew Alphabet, their meanings, and their corresponding numerology as well?

Ok

confused I'll give it a go and look around for it.

I see...

What the hell provides more explanation to words than a dictionary??

I wouldn't expect you to you have been talking to me for less than 2 days...
Yea I could see how this has many places for errors...
It's/Their that sensitive?

I see. So if I am to take in the full meaning I have to read them in their origional language?

Yea
I guess it would  

[Rookherst[KOS]]

Oh neat freak. LOL

I = Total Reverse. My room is a ******** mess with strewn with half written diatribes and books of all nature.  

[Saint Of Demons]

Rookherst[KOS]

Oh neat freak. LOL

I = Total Reverse. My room is a ******** mess with strewn with half written diatribes and books of all nature.

sweatdrop

How do you manage to get anything done?