Terminology and Believability

[Neko_Bast]

I've always thought that the "validity" of any of those terms is hard to figure. The person making the claim can believe it's true wile others may think its falts. Since only the person experencing it can tell for sure, its hard to say if its valid or not. Take me for example. I have an a "tast" for electrisity and energy. I like to absorb it when I start to get tired as a way to energise myself. Becaue of that some people might call me an energy vamp, but I don't. I am also very feline. I act like a cat most of the time without thinking about it. I've always thought I did that becasue I'm a leo and my fave animal is a cat, but I've never thought of myself as otherkin. I also believe that my spirit animal is a Couger, because I've seen him in dreams. All of these could get me called fluffy by people who don't see these as "valid."

I've aslo experenced a charicter taking on a life of thier own. My charicter Yume has been aroud so long now that she is like a side of me. I have her play out all the things I can't have and can't do in real life. She tells me when she wants me to draw her.....lol biggrin  

[Pelta]

MoonJeli

So, what are:

* Totem Animals
* Spirit Guides
* Spirit Animals
* Animal Guides

I'm gonna stick my neck out and take a stab at this. Please don't bite it off! :XP:

Spirit Guide: A spirit, ie. non-corporeal sentient form, that in some way enhances or teaches a seeker's path and experiences.
Spirit Animals: Animals in spirit form, ie. Astral animals.
Animal Guides: Possibly spirit guides in animal form. Honestly I haven't heard this term much, and it's possibly just a confusion of the terms "spirit guide" and "totem animal."
Totem Animal: This is where things get confusing. I don't know what the Native American tradition on this is, though that is where a lot of neo-pagan believers take their basis from. I believe it has something to do with a soul connection to a specific species of animal, that perhaps certain traits of the seeker resonate with the species. Perhaps it is a way of accepting and accentuating your personality traits that are in common with the animal. I honestly don't know enough of the traditional thinking on this. I think the animal is also often seen as a representative of the whole species, as opposed to an individual spirit. It is the difference, perhaps, between an archetype and the single spirit.

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Could you tell me more about your tradition on this?

Answered in PM.  

[TeaDidikai]

missmagpie

I'm gonna stick my neck out and take a stab at this. Please don't bite it off! :XP:

Spirit Guide: A spirit, ie. non-corporeal sentient form, that in some way enhances or teaches a seeker's path and experiences.
Spirit Animals: Animals in spirit form, ie. Astral animals.
Animal Guides: Possibly spirit guides in animal form. Honestly I haven't heard this term much, and it's possibly just a confusion of the terms "spirit guide" and "totem animal."

I find this to be a fair assessment.

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Totem Animal: This is where things get confusing. I don't know what the Native American tradition on this is, though that is where a lot of neo-pagan believers take their basis from. I believe it has something to do with a soul connection to a specific species of animal, that perhaps certain traits of the seeker resonate with the species. Perhaps it is a way of accepting and accentuating your personality traits that are in common with the animal. I honestly don't know enough of the traditional thinking on this. I think the animal is also often seen as a representative of the whole species, as opposed to an individual spirit. It is the difference, perhaps, between an archetype and the single spirit.

This is a tricky one.

The word Totem has it's roots in Algonquian, a family of languages native to the North East of Canada (and some bleed over into the Native Tongues of the Northeastern US tribes).

I think the root for the term was traced to the Ojibwa family (which if I recall correctly has about 8 subsects within the dialect).

The word itself meant Kin, and was tied to the concept of Europe of the "Familial" spirits that often graced certain coats of arms.

The cultures that held a Family tied to an animal are too many to count.

As much as people abuse the word Totem (much like they abuse the word Shaman- which I find very ironic), it isn't a wonder that people assume one must be "in sync" or learn from their "totem".

I know people in this very forum who are very "in sync" with their totem. But they are tied to their totem animal as much as I am, and I am not in sync with mine at all. (The only good place for most kinds of birds in on my dinner table, and my "Totem" animal is too small to make much more than a mouthfull- at best!)  

[Deoridhe]

To confuse things further, the Norse/Germanic people had the concept of fylgia - a being that was usually an animal which was representative and/or partof your soul. A fylgia is also called fetch, which is the term which made it into more modern parlance. I've not personally found among people who discussed their fylgia that it necessarily meant much what animal it was; i.e. there don't seem to be characteristics of the animal which bleed off of the person, or vice versa.

My upg is that a fylgia is representative of both the perosna nd their environment and is almost a touch point between the two. This might be because my fylgia is an antagonist in my tradition, though. sweatdrop Rationalizations are funny things.  

[Pelta]

TeaDidikai

The word itself meant Kin, and was tied to the concept of Europe of the "Familial" spirits that often graced certain coats of arms.

Thanks for clearing that up. So really what many pagans use the word for is a misnomer; Technically it should have a different name when come across in different circumstances.

Although an animal entity similar to a totem may be apparent in several different traditions, they aren't necessarily the same thing. So what I consider to be my 'Totem' is technically misnamed because it is not a family animal.

So to take this further, defining the concept of a 'totem' in several different traditions would be a hell of a job.

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As much as people abuse the word Totem (much like they abuse the word Shaman- which I find very ironic), it isn't a wonder that people assume one must be "in sync" or learn from their "totem".

This probably extends from that confusion between spirit guides and Totems which has hopefully been cleared up. On a personal note, it's great to see you around again! We've missed you! biggrin

I tend not to be very in sync with my totem. I'm usually more in awe of it than anything else.  

[Sir_Catherine]

*rubs at temples, tries to absorbe everything*  

[TeaDidikai]

missmagpie

So what I consider to be my 'Totem' is technically misnamed because it is not a family animal.

Yep. Of note my "Totem" doesn't impact my life outside of being able to confuse people who do "Totem Readings".

Pesudo-Psychic-Person: I see a small bird. It is trying to tell you something.

Me: No. Not really. It just hangs around.

PPP: But all totems are here to teach us something.

Me: No- really. Mine is here to snarf bird seed and flutter about.

PPP: Surely you simply aren't listening. If you listen, you will gain great insight.

Me: Yes, yes- because all the other things I deal with who do actually communicate with me couldn't be bothered to tell Bird Brain that I don't speak Chirp.

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So to take this further, defining the concept of a 'totem' in several different traditions would be a hell of a job.

Not really- at least, not for me.

"Familial Spirit" is the core of the definition. If a culture doesn't have a concept of "familial spirit" any of the above terms will do a better job of communicating the concept.

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On a personal note, it's great to see you around again! We've missed you! biggrin

Meh. It's winter. And I'm being "nice".

Quote:

I tend not to be very in sync with my totem. I'm usually more in awe of it than anything else.

What people would call my "animal guide" amuses me. What people call my "Totem" annoys me. Not a lot of sync anywhere through there. Although my experience is that my "animal guide" has a wicked sense of humor. twisted  

[TeaDidikai]

Deoridhe

To confuse things further, the Norse/Germanic people had the concept of fylgia - a being that was usually an animal which was representative and/or partof your soul.

I was thinking about that when I wrote my little blurb.  

[MoonJeli]

missmagpie

I'm gonna stick my neck out and take a stab at this. Please don't bite it off! :XP:

Spirit Guide: A spirit, ie. non-corporeal sentient form, that in some way enhances or teaches a seeker's path and experiences.
Spirit Animals: Animals in spirit form, ie. Astral animals.
Animal Guides: Possibly spirit guides in animal form. Honestly I haven't heard this term much, and it's possibly just a confusion of the terms "spirit guide" and "totem animal."

Thank you! This is quite helpful. For those able to share I would like to hear about their paths' beliefs regarding this or their own personal experiences, though I know for many it's intensely private.

TeaDidikai

The word Totem has it's roots in Algonquian, a family of languages native to the North East of Canada (and some bleed over into the Native Tongues of the Northeastern US tribes).

I think the root for the term was traced to the Ojibwa family (which if I recall correctly has about 8 subsects within the dialect).

The word itself meant Kin, and was tied to the concept of Europe of the "Familial" spirits that often graced certain coats of arms.

The cultures that held a Family tied to an animal are too many to count.

As much as people abuse the word Totem (much like they abuse the word Shaman- which I find very ironic), it isn't a wonder that people assume one must be "in sync" or learn from their "totem".

I know people in this very forum who are very "in sync" with their totem. But they are tied to their totem animal as much as I am, and I am not in sync with mine at all. (The only good place for most kinds of birds in on my dinner table, and my "Totem" animal is too small to make much more than a mouthfull- at best!)

I doubt my family has had any tie to a particular animal, or if it did, it's worn off by now. wink Are Totems acquired exclusively through family ancestry or do they come to people other ways? Can a group of people who are connected but not by blood have such a Totem?

Deoridhe

To confuse things further, the Norse/Germanic people had the concept of fylgia - a being that was usually an animal which was representative and/or partof your soul. A fylgia is also called fetch, which is the term which made it into more modern parlance. I've not personally found among people who discussed their fylgia that it necessarily meant much what animal it was; i.e. there don't seem to be characteristics of the animal which bleed off of the person, or vice versa.

My upg is that a fylgia is representative of both the perosna nd their environment and is almost a touch point between the two. This might be because my fylgia is an antagonist in my tradition, though. sweatdrop Rationalizations are funny things.

Was it believed by the Norse/Germanic people that everyone had a fylgia? Is the fylgia a guide or guardian, or simply a representation or part of oneself?

Where do guardian spirits, the belief in guardian angels and the like fall in here? Are they simply another view of Spirit Guides, or something else entirely?

Sorry I'm so full of questions without adding much of my own to this topic. :/  

[Deoridhe]

MoonJeli

Was it believed by the Norse/Germanic people that everyone had a fylgia? Is the fylgia a guide or guardian, or simply a representation or part of oneself?

Where do guardian spirits, the belief in guardian angels and the like fall in here? Are they simply another view of Spirit Guides, or something else entirely?

Everyone had one. It's a guide and guardian, but not really in this world.

There are no guardian spirits. ^^  

[MoonJeli]

Deoridhe

MoonJeli

Was it believed by the Norse/Germanic people that everyone had a fylgia? Is the fylgia a guide or guardian, or simply a representation or part of oneself?

Everyone had one. It's a guide and guardian, but not really in this world.

Thank you!

Deoridhe

MoonJeli

Where do guardian spirits, the belief in guardian angels and the like fall in here? Are they simply another view of Spirit Guides, or something else entirely?

There are no guardian spirits. ^^

To clarify I meant the guardian spirits comment for the whole concept of spirit guides and animal spirits and the like, in any path or belief system, not within the concept of the fylgia, in case that was confusing. I should've seperated that better.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Quick Querey.

On the subject of Totems, Familial Spirits, and kinship with coat of arms and the like.
How would one consider Orders which maintained specific Animal imagry and (for want of better terminology) spiritual signifigance, and the rights extended to those who joined said orders to bear the Arms (and Imagry of the spirit guide) of said orders?  

[TeaDidikai]

MoonJeli

Thank you! This is quite helpful. For those able to share I would like to hear about their paths' beliefs regarding this or their own personal experiences, though I know for many it's intensely private.

Have you checked out the Pathways subforum?

Quote:

I doubt my family has had any tie to a particular animal, or if it did, it's worn off by now.

Genetics wear off? eek

Quote:

Are Totems acquired exclusively through family ancestry or do they come to people other ways? Can a group of people who are connected but not by blood have such a Totem?

A Totem? Blood alone. Something else that has been called a Totem due to the popular misuse of the word- couldn't make a universal statment to the subject.

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Where do guardian spirits, the belief in guardian angels and the like fall in here? Are they simply another view of Spirit Guides, or something else entirely?

Angels? ~is KO'ed and dragged off into her dark corner by the M&R regs who long have since tired of listening to Tea's rants on YHVH's Will-forms~  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

How would one consider Orders which maintained specific Animal imagry and (for want of better terminology) spiritual signifigance, and the rights extended to those who joined said orders to bear the Arms (and Imagry of the spirit guide) of said orders?

Couldn't say without more details, but I don't see it as impossible. I would be interested in knowing (not that I ever shall... but I would be interested at least wink ) how many of these are independent of the Founder of the Order's generation.  

[MoonJeli]

TeaDidikai

MoonJeli

Thank you! This is quite helpful. For those able to share I would like to hear about their paths' beliefs regarding this or their own personal experiences, though I know for many it's intensely private.

Have you checked out the Pathways subforum?

Some, yes. I wasn't sure if the majority of people with experience on the subject had actually included it in their path description, though, since I didn't remember Deoridhe including information on fylgia in hers, or missmagpie writing about spirit guides in hers, both of whom already contributed to this topic. I may have missed some though, so I'll go back and re-read.

TeaDidikai

Quote:

I doubt my family has had any tie to a particular animal, or if it did, it's worn off by now.

Genetics wear off? eek

Well, you know, I'm such a mutt, I'm not sure a Totem would recognize my diluted ancestry as belonging to it.

(I was just being facetious. XD)

TeaDidikai

Quote:

Are Totems acquired exclusively through family ancestry or do they come to people other ways? Can a group of people who are connected but not by blood have such a Totem?

A Totem? Blood alone. Something else that has been called a Totem due to the popular misuse of the word- couldn't make a universal statment to the subject.

Do you know if Totems are passed through paternal or maternal lines, or does that have anything to do with it? That is, if a person's mom and dad both had Totems, which one would you be tied to?

TeaDidikai

Quote:

Where do guardian spirits, the belief in guardian angels and the like fall in here? Are they simply another view of Spirit Guides, or something else entirely?

Angels? ~is KO'ed and dragged off into her dark corner by the M&R regs who long have since tired of listening to Tea's rants on YHVH's Will-forms~

Does that mean I missed out? sad Do you have any links to past discussions?

I mostly asked because of the original focus of this thread. Some walk-ins and lightworkers and the like claim to be angels ("earth angels") instead of aliens. Or to be channeling them. Or something like that.