What makes a Wiccan a Wiccan

[Dulliath]

[Kudzu]

PirateEire

So Gardner did not give his 8 holidays names at all? Then, perhaps, in keeping with tradition, lineaged Wiccans should let them remain nameless.

Just wanted to clarify that lineaged Wiccans do not necessarily keep their Traditions according to publically published materials.

You know, I wondered at the start of this thread of the holiday names might be oathbound, but since nobody seemed to respond to that, I just assumed that they weren't.  

[Doctrix]

Dulliath

PirateEire

So Gardner did not give his 8 holidays names at all? Then, perhaps, in keeping with tradition, lineaged Wiccans should let them remain nameless.

I wondered at the start of this thread of the holiday names might be oathbound, but since nobody seemed to respond to that, I just assumed that they weren't.

Why would you assume that an oathbound, mystery religion would include any public information, much less be composed of ONLY public information?  

[Dulliath]

[Kudzu]

Dulliath

PirateEire

So Gardner did not give his 8 holidays names at all? Then, perhaps, in keeping with tradition, lineaged Wiccans should let them remain nameless.

I wondered at the start of this thread of the holiday names might be oathbound, but since nobody seemed to respond to that, I just assumed that they weren't.

Why would you assume that an oathbound, mystery religion would include any public information, much less be composed of ONLY public information?

Sorry, I guess I didn't say that very well. I know that much of the information regarding Wicca is oathbound. That is why in my first post on this thread I asked if the holiday names were oathbound.

Dulliath

TeaDidikai

Now- the holidays. Gardner himself did not title them by the Major 8 seen in the neo-pagan movement. While I would concede that the dates themselves are valid, can we call the names valid?

Before we throw out the names for the holidays, let me point out this - while I would agree that no one outside of actual Wicca can "evolve" the religion, I have heard good arguments for Wiccans inside making minor changes, such as naming the holidays.

We have some Wiccans and ex-Wiccans here. I think if they agree that the names are/were what are/were used in the lineaged Trads they are/were in, that they should be accepted as valid.

Edit: If they aren't the same, we should use whatever names are in use now for Wiccan holidays, unless, of course, that is oathbound info.

((Are/were I PC enough? AAaack!!))

 

[Molly Mollusca]

TeaDidikai

Now- the holidays. Gardner himself did not title them by the Major 8 seen in the neo-pagan movement. While I would concede that the dates themselves are valid, can we call the names valid?

Wait? He didn't? neutral

But but but...:

Gerald B. Gardner in Witchcraft today

It is I think, fairly well known that witches observed four great festivals: May eve, August eve, November eve (Hallowe'en) and Februari eve. These seem to correspond to the divisions of the gaelic year by the four fire festivals of Samhaim or Samhuin (november 1), Brigid (februari 1), Bealteine or Beltene (may 1), and Lughnasadh (august 1).
[spelling mistakes are my own as I copied it from the book.]

confused question

Okay, he didn't label the witches festivals themself, but he did see a link. (However legid that link might be coming from a man listening to Murrey.)
I wonder how it came to be that wicca started using these terms for the festivals.  

[jaden kendam]

Brill Wavedancer

TeaDidikai

Now- the holidays. Gardner himself did not title them by the Major 8 seen in the neo-pagan movement. While I would concede that the dates themselves are valid, can we call the names valid?

Wait? He didn't? neutral

But but but...:

Gerald B. Gardner in Witchcraft today

It is I think, fairly well known that witches observed four great festivals: May eve, August eve, November eve (Hallowe'en) and Februari eve. These seem to correspond to the divisions of the gaelic year by the four fire festivals of Samhaim or Samhuin (november 1), Brigid (februari 1), Bealteine or Beltene (may 1), and Lughnasadh (august 1).
[spelling mistakes are my own as I copied it from the book.]

confused question

Okay, he didn't label the witches festivals themself, but he did see a link. (However legid that link might be coming from a man listening to Murrey.)
I wonder how it came to be that wicca started using these terms for the festivals.

I think the ecclectics use the terms because they sound more Pagany. Just a thought, and I am not willing to prove it by asking every *coughfluffycough*.  

[TeaDidikai]

Brill Wavedancer

confused question

Okay, he didn't label the witches festivals themself, but he did see a link. (However legid that link might be coming from a man listening to Murrey.)
I wonder how it came to be that wicca started using these terms for the festivals.

A mushroom is like a fish. They both have gils.

3nodding  

[Molly Mollusca]

TeaDidikai

A mushroom is like a fish. They both have gils.

3nodding

You make absolutly no sense. Could you use childrens english?  

[jaden kendam]

Brill Wavedancer

TeaDidikai

A mushroom is like a fish. They both have gils.

3nodding

You make absolutly no sense. Could you use childrens english?

It means, just because they have similar parts does not make them the same thing. Like a crab and spider. Both have eight legs.  

[Molly Mollusca]

But a mushroom doesn't HAVE gills. gonk The only thing in common with a fish is that they both have molecules.

Look, I get the "Samhain is a wrong title for what Wicca celebrates", even Doreen Valiente uses the title Hallowe'en for what is celebrated. I get that. (apperantly I'm not that stupid.... redface )

What I don;t get how it came to be that the title Samhain started to become synomynous with the November eve Gardner said the wicca's celebrated? That had to start somewhere and someone had to say:"Look, these share legs, so they must be the same. I am going to call them both spider."

I've been going through my books and found that the fluffybooks all claim that the festival is called Samhain and the books from the initiated, say: "They share legs." So my guess is that it all started by some selective reading from the fluffy side??? I don;t know... question  

[Henry Dorsett Case]

Brill Wavedancer

But a mushroom doesn't HAVE gills.

Actually, the frilly stuff under a mushroom's cap is referred to as gills. It's a proper mycological term, no less.

Quote:

I've been going through my books and found that the fluffybooks all claim that the festival is called Samhain and the books from the initiated, say: "They share legs." So my guess is that it all started by some selective reading from the fluffy side??? I don;t know... question

From what I've heard, Janet Farrar identified the Halloween-time Sabbat as "Samhain" in Eight Sabbats for Witches. This is where we wind up with interesting conflicts of authority - while she is a rather good authority on Wicca, being the widow of the man who assisted Alexander Sanders in the founding of his Tradition, she's a rather poor authority (from what I can tell) on Celtic religion and culture. From what I've been able to gather from people who actually spend time trying to find sources to back up fluffdom, Eight Sabbats seems to be the work referenced by a good chunk of them. It really seems like Eight Sabbats is the quintessential IRAB resource, since it seems to have just enough information to allow the reader to think they know something.  

[Molly Mollusca]

Henry Dorsett Case

Actually, the frilly stuff under a mushroom's cap is referred to as gills. It's a proper mycological term, no less.

eek Tea's statement suddenly makes sense.
*hits herself on the head.

Henry Dorsett Case

From what I've heard, Janet Farrar identified the Halloween-time Sabbat as "Samhain" in Eight Sabbats for Witches. This is where we wind up with interesting conflicts of authority - while she is a rather good authority on Wicca, being the widow of the man who assisted Alexander Sanders in the founding of his Tradition, she's a rather poor authority (from what I can tell) on Celtic religion and culture. From what I've been able to gather from people who actually spend time trying to find sources to back up fluffdom, Eight Sabbats seems to be the work referenced by a good chunk of them. It really seems like Eight Sabbats is the quintessential IRAB resource, since it seems to have just enough information to allow the reader to think they know something.

Janet... eek Well, she does live in Ireland. Maybe she felled she had the right to claim the name? xd
*hits herself on the head again. gonk  

[Henry Dorsett Case]

Brill Wavedancer

eek Tea's statement suddenly makes sense.
*hits herself on the head.

Don't hit yourself too hard, or else the fluffies might start making sense, too. So will the little purple men in your sugar bowl. wink  

[jaden kendam]

Henry Dorsett Case

Brill Wavedancer

eek Tea's statement suddenly makes sense.
*hits herself on the head.

Don't hit yourself too hard, or else the fluffies might start making sense, too. So will the little purple men in your sugar bowl. wink

Wait, you mean they dont make sense now? "Ponders burning the notes on life that was given to him"  

[TeaDidikai]

Brill Wavedancer

TeaDidikai

A mushroom is like a fish. They both have gils.

3nodding

You make absolutly no sense. Could you use childrens english?

So- people "drew connections" and then they hijacked terms.

Other examples would be people who make the Bassat claim that Christmas = Yule.  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

Other examples would be people who make the Bassat claim that Christmas = Yule.

I can understand why people would do that. They celebrate the birth of the Sun/Son.(at least I celebrate the birth of the sun).....lol When you say that, people will think what they think since the two words sound the same. I know that they are not the same holiday but I feel they are very similar.