Guidelines Discussion

[maenad nuri]

I don't go after every person that leaves, I have no way of knowing. If someone PM's me, I tell them to come back when they are ready. If they make a big hullaballo in a topic, I pm them, and do two things: 1. Point out what they did wrong and 2. Ask what could be done to make it better.

I'd also like to point out, that the guild description is from before there even was this lovely guild system.

I like keeping people that I think have potential around. I work in special ed--everyone has potential, we just have to find what the limits are.

I don't think we have to treat every person that comes in here like it is an interrogation. Dude, my religious beliefs contridict themselves. I contridict myself. Irrationality FTW, sometimes.

I'm here to teach and to learn. Chatting is a side project. I hate small talk.

Tea, remember what we talked about last night: about different people needing different strategies to get a point across.

Morphenius: That's a very good and concise reading of my guidelines. I tend to bog mine down with the mumbo-jumbo I'm required to do at work, and the English takes over. I am definetly seeind the problem with the third, it feels like a fish out of water.

The point is to create an atmosphere thats a bit more condusive to a larger audience to learn, teach, and chat. If people are being driven away because of the actions of a few members, then I don't feel like I've done my job as owner.

I read almost all the join entries: most of them say they can't wait to post. And then I never see them again--and they are people I know who have opinions and things to say--so what am I doing wrong?  

[TeaDidikai]

Nuri

I don't think we have to treat every person that comes in here like it is an interrogation. Dude, my religious beliefs contridict themselves. I contridict myself. Irrationality FTW, sometimes.

Would you really expect us not to call you on it? wink

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If people are being driven away because of the actions of a few members, then I don't feel like I've done my job as owner.

And when the pendulum swings the other way?

I guess that is what I am missing. Something to assure me that this place will still be a place those who are here can enjoy.

Quote:

I read almost all the join entries: most of them say they can't wait to post. And then I never see them again--and they are people I know who have opinions and things to say--so what am I doing wrong?

I'd ask why it has to be something you are doing wrong.

There are zillions of reasons people who say they are looking forward to posting don't.

This guild is the largest Pagan guild on Gaia. If everyone was turned off they would leave rather than lurk.  

[TatteredAngel]

Nuri

I read almost all the join entries: most of them say they can't wait to post. And then I never see them again--and they are people I know who have opinions and things to say--so what am I doing wrong?

I don't have much intelligent to add myself, but it seems like the feedback from people who are leaving/not posting/getting feelings hurt would be important here. It's pretty much impossible to satisfy everyone, but if the specifics were shared, it might show some ways to tweak things, if those things are tweakable.

Being a terribly sensitive soul myself, I can see how people might be pretty intimidated upon being at odds with our more blunt members. I've learned not to get my panties in a twist, especially not over the internet, but it didn't happen overnight. I guess my feeling though is that people sometimes have to take responsibility for their own grievances. If someone tells you they're leaving, you can ask why and determine whether it can be fixed. If they don't say anything, the ball really has to be in their court- it's your job to moderate the environment, but not to be psychic.  

[TeaDidikai]

TatteredAngel

I guess my feeling though is that people sometimes have to take responsibility for their own grievances.

This reminds me.

In the name of being constructive- what about something to the nature of Personal Responsability?  

[Sivirs]

Nuri

I read almost all the join entries: most of them say they can't wait to post. And then I never see them again--and they are people I know who have opinions and things to say--so what am I doing wrong?

I have to chime in that this one is totally not your problem.

I run forums of my own. I get a lot of excited join posts too, and then I NEVER HEAR FROM THE MEMBERS AGAIN. Nobody on my forums is very confrontational (contrary to most fandom peoples' beliefs, fandom is not something to get riled up over), nobody has been mean to anyone else, nobody's even been BLUNT with anyone else - well, except that one b***h I threatened to ban for hotlinking my avatars off my webspace. What a skeeze.

Anyway, the point is, people join and then disappear all the time. While some of them may be running away crying because Tea and co. can phrase things a certain way (and I'm also willing to bet that The Lurking Mob(tm) gets a morbid satisfaction out of seeing it when it's not them being grilled), I'm gonna guess that the vast majority forget about the guild or don't bother to check it, or they just lurk, etc. I know I mostly lurk lately, and it's not 'cause I think Tea or Reagun are gonna eat me for breathing in a Celtsploitational manner or anything, it's just 'cause school's kicking my a**, and while I have time to read along with the big threads, I don't really have time to post well-thought-out replies to anything, so I comment a little here and a little there from afar.

Also, iiiin the spirit of respect and guideliness and such, I'm seeing some people who are *not* just trying to help with said guidelines, and that part of the discussion seems to be veering dangerously close to becoming a "Let's tell Tea why she's icky and why she alone should change the way she posts" thread of childish mudslinging, so uh... let's remember that Nuri called ALL SIDES of the deity thread debate out on their behavior, okay? Not just Tea. Not just Tea/Reagun/anyothercombo. Not just the posters who hurt your feelings. Not just the posters you may not like. Not just the posters you may not agree with. AAAALLL SIIIIDES. Y'know, all impartial and modlike. She's svelt like that, yo.  

[TeaDidikai]

Sivirs

"Let's tell Tea why she's icky and why she alone should change the way she posts"

crying You mean I'm not the icky wicked witch of the west?! emo  

[Fiddlers Green]

TeaDidikai

In the name of being constructive- what about something to the nature of Personal Responsability?

I would like to be the first to firmly an unequivocally blame Canada. 3nodding

Seriously tho, what about it did you want to bring up? surprised  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

I would like to be the first to firmly an unequivocally blame Canada. 3nodding

You can't be the first. South Park beat you to it.

Quote:

Seriously tho, what about it did you want to bring up? surprised

'

I suggest that people actually make use of the subform feature- and we have a place where specific guidelines for conduct are to be followed.

Thus it would be the individual's job to place their opinion or thread in the proper forum.  

[Fiddlers Green]

TeaDidikai

You can't be the first. South Park beat you to it.

Poorly animated fart jokes and naked socio-political commentary masquerading as barely concealed socio-political commentary are not a person, and cannot stand. xp

Quote:

I suggest that people actually make use of the subform feature- and we have a place where specific guidelines for conduct are to be followed.

Thus it would be the individual's job to place their opinion or thread in the proper forum.

Ah.  

[maenad nuri]

Trust me Tea, I'm never going to make you stop confronting people on their idiocy. That's what the rehab part is about.

I'm trying to make a line between Fluff guild # 125 and "cowering in fear". I think a big part of that line is being civil to each other. Call me on the irrationality, but I'm going to tell you that I worship a very irrational god. smile

I'm just going to be the patient voice. I'd rather hold on to the people who don't immediatly make the switch. Trust me, I'm patient. I'm the nice one.

TA: In this case, since the problem that a good many have cited (and if I had their permission to post PM's,I would) their leaving is based on enviroment.

And I think Personal Responsibility has to go both ways--not just on the leaving person, but on the people (myself included) that led them too it.

After I get back from Re-Con (and I'm sure this topic will come up there, too), I'll draw up a revised draft, and we'll see how that one goes over.  

[TeaDidikai]

Nuri

I'm just going to be the patient voice. I'd rather hold on to the people who don't immediatly make the switch. Trust me, I'm patient. I'm the nice one.

Heh... I should have saved that IM conversation last night. wink twisted

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TA: In this case, since the problem that a good many have cited (and if I had their permission to post PM's,I would) their leaving is based on enviroment.

Is this a function of "Loud Minority"?

Quote:

And I think Personal Responsibility has to go both ways--not just on the leaving person, but on the people (myself included) that led them too it.

And at the end of the day- can we actually cause them to leave?

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After I get back from Re-Con (and I'm sure this topic will come up there, too),

I hope not. I am looking forward to relaxing and not thinking about this stuff!  

[maenad nuri]

As someone who has left groups, that were wonderful before a small minority got ahold of them, yes. Other people can cause me to leave.

I think both sides are a very loud minority.  

[Fiddlers Green]

The topic may come up... but I have every intention of decapitating it. twisted

Re-con for fun, not work.
Animal no like work.
Animal... Ahahahahah!
~eats drumsticks~
[/Muppet Babies]  

[TeaDidikai]

Fiddlers Green

The topic may come up... but I have every intention of decapitating it. twisted

Re-con for fun, not work.
Animal no like work.
Animal... Ahahahahah!
~eats drumsticks~
[/Muppet Babies]

I'll hold it down, you get the axe.  

[midara the happy banshee]

TatteredAngel

I don't have much intelligent to add myself, but it seems like the feedback from people who are leaving/not posting/getting feelings hurt would be important here. It's pretty much impossible to satisfy everyone, but if the specifics were shared, it might show some ways to tweak things, if those things are tweakable.

Being a terribly sensitive soul myself, I can see how people might be pretty intimidated upon being at odds with our more blunt members. I've learned not to get my panties in a twist, especially not over the internet, but it didn't happen overnight. I guess my feeling though is that people sometimes have to take responsibility for their own grievances. If someone tells you they're leaving, you can ask why and determine whether it can be fixed. If they don't say anything, the ball really has to be in their court- it's your job to moderate the environment, but not to be psychic.

Being a lurker in this guild, I thought that I might have a bit to add. There are several reasons I lurk in this guild instead of posting. One is that there's just so much good information that I gain a lot by simply shutting up and learning. I love that the people in this guild challenge fallacious assertions and hold the truth in such high esteem. It's a great ideal, and it's one I really admire. I'm just a little intimidated as well.

Now, don't get me wrong. I'm not at all opposed to having my beliefs critiqued. I realize that I'm still trying to figure things out, and that I'll need to be challenged along the way. I'm sure that if any of you are familiar with the few topics I've made, you'll know they've all been honest questions, and I've been more than open to suggestions and criticism. However, I'm also extremely sensitive, and while I've never been met with hostility here, I've seen it happen and it makes me more than a little apprehensive. In my book, there's a big difference between someone saying, "Okay, you're totally wrong and here's why" and outright hostility, the main difference being that one will spark new and interesting ideas and the other will make me cry. xp

I don't think that this guild has to become "Fluffy Sparkles Guild for Teenage Wiccans and Druids" in order to make people more comfortable. This is still the rehab guild, after all. I think there just needs to be a bit more attention paid to exactly how our tones will be interpreted.