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 Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:15 pm
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Quote: I am being direct with you. Do not do it again or I shall report you to the Mods for a violation of the ToS. Trolling is against the rules afterall.
I only did it once, so really there won't be an "again" until after another again.
The normal punishment routine takes place after 3 strikes, not 2.
Quote: That is to say- the proof of the validity of their written word within their tradition is found within their scriptures.
Forgive me for not knowing how to explain my thoughts with this keyboard, but let me try this again: I meant that written word is easily edited, switched around, etc. so in my honest opinion it's difficult to trust them.
Quote: Scholars can say that about Beowulf all they want. That doesn't mean it applies to any given theological text.
That wasn't the point of that argument, my point was that if people can easily change and add on to simple stories, then religious texts could also be treated the same way.
Quote: "What if" and a dollar will buy you a candy bar at the Dollar Store.
But not a cigar.
Quote: Welcome to the Rehab guild. I know you're familiar with it. Now you understand why blanket statements aren't welcome. Their misleading. We try our best not to further ignorance here.
^they're
Anyways, thank you for the intro and all that jazz, but I already am familar with this.
(edited because I forgot to finish a thought) |
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Posted: Thu Oct 12, 2006 5:33 pm
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 1:38 am
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Quote: Considering I put together the primary definition for it in this forum, I would say- yes. Guess what- I can attend Jewish Temple, I can read the source texts for the Jewish faith. That doesn't mean I have the right to follow the mitzvots. Child, I suggest you reconsider your position.
All right! Part 2! Before I begin, let me apologize for a few of my comments. They were harsh and it was wrong of me to say those things against Tea. But consider it from my point of view, my first post about what I practice and someone starts accusing me of culture rape. Talk about considerate, no? I'm all about debate, but don't come in screaming at me please.
Respect is a two way street. If you treat me with respect, I do the same for you. If you come in guns blazing as it were, then don't except me to respect you.
Also, I could care less about how long someone has been on these forums. So you've been on these forums for 5 years? Great, means you know lots about Gaia. It doesn't mean you are the all knowing/all seeing. No one knows everything about paganism, especially since many paths are deeply personal.
Once again, I like debates. It keeps me on my toes. I will make a effort to be considerate to Tea so as long as I get the same respect out of her.
Now then, on to the debate!
Tea- You put the primary definition of culture rape on this forum? Great. Tell me then, where did you get that definition? And do you think cultural sharing is the same thing? I think the fact that our definitions are different could be one of big reasons as to why we're disagreeing.
I'm also confused as to what you meant by having a right to follow a set of beliefs. Because I am an American, I really don't have any ethnic beliefs. This is a young country. Every religion practiced here (save Native American beliefs) comes from somewhere else. So, since I'm not Celtic, Greek, etc, does that mean that I can't worship any deities? Because I'm an American does that mean I have to be an athiest?
If your view is this, then surely you must realize that almost every pagan is engaging in what you call, "culture rape." We have to worship something. Why should we be denied because of where we were born?
In Judaism in the US, anyone is free to convert. No one is denied the right simply because they are not from Israel. The same goes for Hinduism. when I worship Durga, I wanted to worship her the way she was traditionally worshipped. That's why I did some much research about Hinduism, the art, the culture, etc. That's also why I went to those temples. So I can earn the respect from Hindus to worship their goddess. And you know what? I have that permission. I showed them that I value Durga the way they value her. That I wouldn't bastardize her or warp her around to my liking.
So if this is still culture rape, then I guess that's your view.
Now then, about your warning to reconsider my position....my position about what? About the fact that I don't agree with your beliefs on thoughtforms? I'm sorry, but those are your beliefs and I don't have to share them merely because you do. If that bothers you, then well, I have to say too bad. You can't force me to accept your views. Just like I can't force you to accept mine. |
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 4:48 am
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TeaDidikai Considering I put together the primary definition for it in this forum, I would say- yes.
Contested.
You formalised it.
We were using it before you joined.
TeaDidikai For a start- show me where I said it was limited to theology. Second- prove that Culture Rape doesn't happen on an individual level- and that it only takes place on a community level.
I'm also incredibly interested to see this proof.
TeaDidikai Care to explain how someone can fully understand a closed culture from outside of it?
ADF and OBOD did it with the druids stare
TeaDidikai By further extention- have you ever had real Chiese food in the US?
I've had it in Ireland.
The Chinese family across the road from me. Proper meal an all.
TeaDidikai Further- can I point out that these aren't closed cultures?
Furthermore that Chinese food is not taken out of context when eaten, Europop is not taken out of context when listened to, etc.
All of the examples were false analogy.
TeaDidikai The words of the authorities within the cultures themselves.
"Reality" is what I'd have said there followed by a list like
Most Celtic Mystic orders including, but not limited to
OBODADFAes DenaiCrom Chrua
Many Hellenic faiths that are centuries old
Alexandrian and Gardnerian Wicca
Orthodox Judaism
Vertigo_Kiwi I only did it once, so really there won't be an "again" until after another again.
Once more with English please?
Vertigo_Kiwi The normal punishment routine takes place after 3 strikes, not 2.
Source for that? Way I hear it, it all depends on the type of offence.
Vertigo_Kiwi Forgive me for not knowing how to explain my thoughts with this keyboard, but let me try this again: I meant that written word is easily edited, switched around, etc. so in my honest opinion it's difficult to trust them.
We know what you meant.
What we mean is that your argument's premise is logically faulty. "It could have possibly been altered and I'm too lazy to check the originals" doesn't really cut it. It's called argument from potential and it's a logical fallacy.
Vertigo_Kiwi That wasn't the point of that argument, my point was that if people can easily change and add on to simple stories, then religious texts could also be treated the same way.
That's what historical dating is for. You know, research?
Would you like me to run through your post and highlight the vast bounty of your really really bad spelling mistakes, your fragrant ignorance of the rules of grammar and syntactic structure and your repeated lack of sentence clauses?
How about we drop the spelling corrections altogether. It makes you look petulant, not to mention (because your own is so bad) not the brightest fork in the dishwasher.
iolitefire All right! Part 2! Before I begin, let me apologize for a few of my comments. They were harsh and it was wrong of me to say those things against Tea.
They weren't harsh.
What I just did to Vertigo, that was harsh.
They were out of line and downright obnoxious.
iolitefire But consider it from my point of view, my first post about what I practice and someone starts accusing me of culture rape.
Accuse isn't neccessarily the right word there.
iolitefire Talk about considerate, no? I'm all about debate, but don't come in screaming at me please.
She didn't scream.
iolitefire Respect is a two way street. If you treat me with respect, I do the same for you. If you come in guns blazing as it were, then don't except me to respect you.
No. Respect is not a two way street. Respect is something to be earned, not demanded. Tea is a regular contributor of well researched, insightful thoughtful arguments. That is how she earned her "respect street". You don't have a "respect street" yet and when you talk about the rights to it, like that, you seem ignorant of what respect is.
iolitefire No one knows everything about paganism, especially since many paths are deeply personal.
And many are closed to those who aren't of the right skin colour, ethnicity, height, weight, hair color, gender, gender preference, etc.
iolitefire Once again, I like debates. It keeps me on my toes. I will make a effort to be considerate to Tea so as long as I get the same respect out of her.
Tea, who's followed the rules of debate, versus You, who doesn't seem to know them?
That's not a debate.
That's someone learnèd trying to pass on information to someone who threw a temper tantrum. I advise you calm the ******** down and re-read all of her posts with "debate" not "I am a victim and everyone who disagrees with me is out to get me" in mind.
iolitefire Tea- You put the primary definition of culture rape on this forum? Great. Tell me then, where did you get that definition?
From the forum en masse.
I know for a fact that she consulted me though I suspect it was me who started using it here. What with the Celts being culturally raped all the time.
iolitefire And do you think cultural sharing is the same thing?
If I give you a biscuit is it the same as when you try to break into my house and steal one?
I, editing what iolitefire originally said (for the sake of context), So, since I'm not Celtic does that mean that I can't worship any of their deities?
If you're not a Celt, our Gods don't want you.
Read the book of Leinster, particularly Amergin's pacts with the Gods of Ireland. This concept, though, does crop up a lot.
iolitefire If your view is this, then surely you must realize that almost every pagan is engaging in what you call, "culture rape." We have to worship something. Why should we be denied because of where we were born?
Excuse you?
YOu think your "rights" to worship MY people's Gods outweighs their commands that Gallachaí don't try?
Go on, tell that to the Morrigan, or better yet Annan.
In fact, why don't you come up to Washington while I'm over in a fortnight (oh Gods it's getting close) and say it to me. I'll pass the message, the memory and all sympathetic resonance I have on to her. We'll see what my Gods have to say about your attitude?
iolitefire In Judaism in the US, anyone is free to convert. No one is denied the right simply because they are not from Israel.
That's a half truth that anyone could well interpret to be either an out and out lie or ignorance.
In the US, orthodox Jews (who are part of Judaism) state that not only are Gentiles not supposed to convert, they're not allowed nor is there any need for them to.
iolitefire The same goes for Hinduism.
Similarly to above, this isn't the case for Hinduism, it is only the case for Sects of Hinduism and for certain castes within those Sects.
iolitefire I wanted to worship her the way she was traditionally worshipped.
What, you mean by Hindi? I don't really know much about Hinduism, it's the only non Celtic blood I have and, at that, it's five or six generations back on one side, but I'm fairly certain that it's traditionally practiced by Indoasians.
iolitefire So I can earn the respect from Hindus to worship their goddess. And you know what? I have that permission. I showed them that I value Durga the way they value her.
I'd like the names and addresses of those Temples and the name of the Brahmen in question. We hear this a lot.
"I went to "
Since you're talking about an open faith here.
Since what you're saying is so at odds with what my Brahmen friends have told me, I'm challenging this claim.
Provide proof or withdraw it please.
iolitefire Now then, about your warning to reconsider my position....my position about what? About the fact that I don't agree with your beliefs on thoughtforms?
I would suggest you apologise for the comment which illicted that reaction. The rude, ignorant, ill mannered comment was out of line. Personally, I'd have had a word with the forum mods and stated as much. |
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 5:04 am
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iolitefire I'm also confused as to what you meant by having a right to follow a set of beliefs. Because I am an American, I really don't have any ethnic beliefs. This is a young country. Every religion practiced here (save Native American beliefs) comes from somewhere else. So, since I'm not Celtic, Greek, etc, does that mean that I can't worship any deities? Because I'm an American does that mean I have to be an athiest?
Many Americans attempt to compensate for their lack of a steriotypical culture by borrowing or stealing from another. What is often overlooked in the process is that every individual ANYWHERE has their own type of culture. Why is there so much emphasis on finding something that doesn't belong to you when you're overlooking what you already had?
And just as a note on your examples; Hellenic reconstruction (Greek) is an open tradition. Celtic is closed. And neither of them are the only systems of pagan worship. There are far more ways than just the continuously re-hashed and 'popular' traditions.
Quote: If your view is this, then surely you must realize that almost every pagan is engaging in what you call, "culture rape." We have to worship something. Why should we be denied because of where we were born?
Nobody is denying you the right to a pagan faith because of your ethnicity. We are just saying you cannot be something you're not. I cannot be a Celt. Apples cannot be oranges (without genetic modification). |
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 7:59 am
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Henry Dorsett Case Quick question - why only the Sefer Yetzirah?
Nuri Actually, put me in the translations are flawed camp. I don't think we can ever convey a total meaning of a text in a single translation, or even many translations. There always seems to be a piece missing. However, for me, that just means being critical of translations and source material general. Not a bad thing at all.
Look at the Hebrew scriptures. The time and effort put into the Torah- the fact that those five books are the core of the Jewish faith and that the rest of the texts are considered secondary. The ammount of time, money and effort that goes into making a copy of the Torah compaired to the other texts that make up Jewish Scripture is amazing.
While some texts are missing key parts- this isn't the case for all texts.
Those texts that are affected by poor translations need the living culture of those who follow to put the tradition in perspective. Or, if a Recon tradition, care must be paid to the culture of the time given the evidence left in the dust as well as the present culture.
Vertigo_Kiwi I only did it once, so really there won't be an "again" until after another again. The normal punishment routine takes place after 3 strikes, not 2.
Quote: Forgive me for not knowing how to explain my thoughts with this keyboard, but let me try this again: I meant that written word is easily edited, switched around, etc. so in my honest opinion it's difficult to trust them.
Prove that all traditions that exist and assert a claim that the scripture is the heart of the tradition and that it isn't flawed is wrong.
Quote: That wasn't the point of that argument, my point was that if people can easily change and add on to simple stories, then religious texts could also be treated the same way.
A toilet seat could fall from the sky and kill me right now. That doesn't mean it has happened.
Stop mentally masturbating debating about what might be and start debating about what is.
iolitefire But consider it from my point of view, my first post about what I practice and someone starts accusing me of culture rape.
Quote: Talk about considerate, no? I'm all about debate, but don't come in screaming at me please.
Quote: Respect is a two way street. If you treat me with respect, I do the same for you. If you come in guns blazing as it were, then don't except me to respect you.
Quote: Also, I could care less about how long someone has been on these forums.
As much as I am thankful for the others of this forum holding me in such reguard- it is what I am about that they respect- not how long I have been here.
Quote: I will make a effort to be considerate to Tea so as long as I get the same respect out of her.
Quote: Tell me then, where did you get that definition?
Quote: And do you think cultural sharing is the same thing?
Quote: I'm also confused as to what you meant by having a right to follow a set of beliefs. Because I am an American, I really don't have any ethnic beliefs. This is a young country. Every religion practiced here (save Native American beliefs) comes from somewhere else. So, since I'm not Celtic, Greek, etc, does that mean that I can't worship any deities? Because I'm an American does that mean I have to be an athiest?
No. You have to find an open tradition. That's all.
Quote: If your view is this, then surely you must realize that almost every pagan is engaging in what you call, "culture rape." We have to worship something. Why should we be denied because of where we were born?
Quote: In Judaism in the US, anyone is free to convert. No one is denied the right simply because they are not from Israel. The same goes for Hinduism. when I worship Durga, I wanted to worship her the way she was traditionally worshipped. That's why I did some much research about Hinduism, the art, the culture, etc. That's also why I went to those temples. So I can earn the respect from Hindus to worship their goddess. And you know what? I have that permission. I showed them that I value Durga the way they value her. That I wouldn't bastardize her or warp her around to my liking.
Quote: Now then, about your warning to reconsider my position....my position about what?
reagun ban Contested. You formalised it. We were using it before you joined.
Quote: ADF and OBOD did it with the druids stare
Quote: I've had it in Ireland. The Chinese family across the road from me. Proper meal an all. |
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:32 am
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Vertigo_Kiwi Quote: I am being direct with you. Do not do it again or I shall report you to the Mods for a violation of the ToS. Trolling is against the rules afterall. I only did it once, so really there won't be an "again" until after another again. The normal punishment routine takes place after 3 strikes, not 2.
I would suggest you not speak for the Moderators int erms of "normal punishment." In addition, Moderator action in a guild can be very different from Moderator action on Gaia as a whole. |
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:13 pm
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No. Respect is not a two way street. Respect is something to be earned, not demanded. Tea is a regular contributor of well researched, insightful thoughtful arguments. That is how she earned her "respect street". You don't have a "respect street" yet and when you talk about the rights to it, like that, you seem ignorant of what respect is.
Tea, who's followed the rules of debate, versus You, who doesn't seem to know them?
That's not a debate.
That's someone learnèd trying to pass on information to someone who threw a temper tantrum. I advise you calm the ******** down and re-read all of her posts with "debate" not "I am a victim and everyone who disagrees with me is out to get me" in mind.
Excuse you?
YOu think your "rights" to worship MY people's Gods outweighs their commands that Gallachaí don't try?
Go on, tell that to the Morrigan, or better yet Annan.
In fact, why don't you come up to Washington while I'm over in a fortnight (oh Gods it's getting close) and say it to me. I'll pass the message, the memory and all sympathetic resonance I have on to her. We'll see what my Gods have to say about your attitude?
I'd like the names and addresses of those Temples and the name of the Brahmen in question. We hear this a lot.
"I went to "
Since you're talking about an open faith here.
Since what you're saying is so at odds with what my Brahmen friends have told me, I'm challenging this claim.
Provide proof or withdraw it please.
I would suggest you apologise for the comment which illicted that reaction. The rude, ignorant, ill mannered comment was out of line. Personally, I'd have had a word with the forum mods and stated as much.
All right, lets start off now. So people who come into this forum hoping to learn and discuss with one another aren't respected. Wow. Do you treat people like this in real life? I'm just wondering. So if I have to earn the right to be respected then its fair to say then that I don't have to respect any of you until you prove it to me. And so far its not really working. All I've seen you and Tea do is critize other people without even trying to see their world view.
Ok, now I love the fact that I'm the having the "temper tantrum." Sure I was a little irked, but if I recall I also backed my claims up. If Tea approached me and asked me questions about my beliefs and didn't throw the words 'Culture Rape' at me then you know what, we'd be fine. Its fine for people to disagree with me, it'd be boring if they didn't. What's not cool is if they act like jerks about it.
Now, you want to know the temple and Brahmen I talked to? I went to the Radha Krishna Temple and spoke to Venkatachalapathi. While the temple's focus wasn't on Durga, they still had her statues and icons there. But I doubt you'd be satisfied even with that.
Now then, I suggest you don't talk about me being out of line when you're the one getting flustered enough to try and bait some stranger to meet with you in person so that you can pass the "sympathetic resonance" to your goddess.
Its actually kinda funny, I know people who worship the Morrigan and actually have a good relationship with her. Are they being horribly butchered and slain because they aren't 1st generation Celtic? Nope. And from what I hear about the Morrgian, it seems that she has better things to do then deal with some non-Celtic who may want to worship her (which by the way, I don't).
In the end, using gods to settle your arguments sounds almost childish to me. If you really want to meet and talk over coffee or something, that's fine. But lets leave our gods out of it, yes?
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 12:41 pm
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iolitefire All right, lets start off now. So people who come into this forum hoping to learn and discuss with one another aren't respected. Wow. Do you treat people like this in real life?
Quote: I'm just wondering. So if I have to earn the right to be respected then its fair to say then that I don't have to respect any of you until you prove it to me.
Quote: All I've seen you and Tea do is critize other people without even trying to see their world view.
If you have a problem with you being called on your practices- you need help. I would be happy to give you some resources for Washington State if you are interested.
Quote: Ok, now I love the fact that I'm the having the "temper tantrum." Sure I was a little irked, but if I recall I also backed my claims up.
Quote: If Tea approached me and asked me questions about my beliefs and didn't throw the words 'Culture Rape' at me then you know what, we'd be fine.
Quote: Its fine for people to disagree with me, it'd be boring if they didn't. What's not cool is if they act like jerks about it.
Quote: Now, you want to know the temple and Brahmen I talked to? I went to the Radha Krishna Temple and spoke to Venkatachalapathi. While the temple's focus wasn't on Durga, they still had her statues and icons there. But I doubt you'd be satisfied even with that.
Quote: Now then, I suggest you don't talk about me being out of line when you're the one getting flustered enough to try and bait some stranger to meet with you in person so that you can pass the "sympathetic resonance" to your goddess.
If you are going to make bassat claims of entitlement, and then freak when someone calls you on it (likely a rhetorical invitation- as he odds are he won't have the time) you've got a lot to learn.
Quote: Its actually kinda funny, I know people who worship the Morrigan and actually have a good relationship with her. Are they being horribly butchered and slain because they aren't 1st generation Celtic? Nope. And from what I hear about the Morrgian, it seems that she has better things to do then deal with some non-Celtic who may want to worship her (which by the way, I don't).
Ummm... she isn't one to suffer fools lightly. Oh- don't tell me. They think the Morrigan is some light and love goddess- and why are we speaking about her in the singular?
Quote: In the end, using gods to settle your arguments sounds almost childish to me.
Edit: ISKCON is not the best source, especially considering how heretical they are. Further- I want proof that you spoke to Venkateshwara in a ISKCON temple- considering his temple is Andhra Pradesh, all that silly deity stuff can be a real b***h eh? |
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:45 pm
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TeaDidikai Aesi Could be considered so, yes. I did find a couple resources which note that the word's literal definition is "dwelling". Please note that "mowshab" is closer to dwelling Quote: - (However, these resources also define it as "presence", so it seems to imply the action of dwelling, rather than the object.) Which sources would these be? Can you cite scripture to this effect?
Note: "resources". I haven't been able to find any form of the word "shekhinah" translated in scripture. Rather, wherever they use the word, the authors or translators haven't noted the literal translation. And as I don't have access to a Hebrew dictionary in which the word appears or even one with romanized Hebrew entries, I can only rely on the Internet for interpretation. At this moment, I'm using Yahoo! Answers to appeal to those who have better access than I have. Criticize me for this if you want, but I can only do the best I can with what I have.
Quote: Quote: It refers to the presence of God, so it could be interpreted as "being in the presence of God". More likely, the word simply meant the extent to which humans could experience YHVH It appears that it wasn't considered a separate entity from YHVH until the Middle Ages. Quote: Quote: This may be how the Shekhinah became a female consort of God in the qabala. Cite this in the SY please.
Zohar, Vol. 5, Section 27 - The Shekhinah is a separate being, is female, and is in exile 271. HE ANSWERS: We have learned that when the sun shines, it is in heaven, and its power and strength rule everywhere on earth. Similarly, it was said OF HASHEM that "the whole earth is full of His glory," while the Temple was in existence. This verse refers to the Holy Land, NAMELY, THE NUKVA. THE SHECHINAH IS THEN WONT TO BE REVEALED. Now when Yisrael are in exile, THE SHECHINAH is above YET her power IS DRAWN TOWARD THE EARTH LIKE THE SUN, WHICH HIDES IN THE SKY, YET ITS POWER AND STRENGTH FILL THE EARTH. SHE encircles Yisrael to protect them, although they are IN EXILE in a different land. 272. HE FURTHER EXPLAINED: Come and behold. There is the Shechinah below and above THE CHEST OF ZEIR ANPIN. The Shechinah above abides in the twelve borders of the holy Chariots and the twelve supernal living creatures. The Shechinah below abides in the twelve holy tribes. The Shechinah includes of above and below and they all shine simultaneously. AND THEN, "THE WHOLE EARTH IS FULL OF HIS GLORY" (YESHAYAH 6:3), AND THE SHECHINAH IS REVEALED BELOW IN THIS WORLD. When the children of Yisrael were in exile, the Shechinah was not perfected below or above. This is because the Shechinah is in exile with them. 273. HE ASKS: How is the Shechinah amended DURING HER EXILE SO AS TO BE REVEALED BELOW? HE SAID: This is like a king whose son died. What did he do? He even turned down his bed for the mourning, and did not make it, but threw thorns and thistles under it and lay on them. So did the Holy One, blessed be He, behave when Yisrael went into exile, and the Temple was destroyed. He put thorns and thistles underneath Him. This is the meaning of the verse: "And the angel of Hashem appeared to him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush" (Shemot 3:2). HE DID THIS because Yisrael were in exile. THIS EXPLAINS HOW THE SHECHINAH WAS REVEALED TO MOSHE IN EXILE. SHE APPEARS TO MOSHE IN A THORNBUSH, WHICH IS UNPERFECT AND FULL OF JUDGMENT, FOR SHE CAN APPEAR IN THIS MANNER EVEN IN EXILE. 274. "I have surely visited you." HE RETURNED TO THE OTHER QUESTION: whom can a person who is not in his own domain, BUT IS IN EXILE, visit? What can he do? HOW COULD THE SHECHINAH SAY, "I HAVE SURELY VISITED YOU (LIT. 'VISIT I HAVE VISITED YOU')," WHEN SHE WAS IN EXILE? HE ANSWERS: "visit" means from above, ZEIR ANPIN, THE SECRET OF REMEMBRANCE, and "visited" is below IN THE NUKVA. He did not mention the word "remember," because remembrance has been over Her earlier, as it is written: "and I have remembered My covenant." Once it was written: "and I have remembered," remembrance had been inserted into Her. Therefore she later said, "Visit I have visited you," THE WORD "VISIT" ALLUDING TO THE REMEMBRANCE ALREADY GIVEN HER, because She held to that sign--IN THE WORDS "VISIT, I HAVE VISITED YOU," beforehand. The same applies to Sarah, as it is written: "And Hashem visited Sarah." As for Rachel, who was not remembered before, the term "visiting" is not used. Rather, "remembrance" is used. Everything that pertains to "remembrance" is in the secret meaning of Mazal.
I have not yet found confirmation or dismissal of the idea that the Shekhinah is YHVH's consort. But I'm not done looking for it. So, I'll let you have this one until I do.
Quote: Quote: Yeah. I worship a personification of mankind. Why? Because the whole of humanity is both greater than me and something which I love. Ummm... wow. Welcome to Bastardized Satanism 101. wink
That's one hell of a judgment on someone whose beliefs you have little familiarity with. I've known too bloody many Satanists to be comfortable with them. As they have described their religion, it's a kind of spiritual anarchy. No real gods, no use for morals, everyone should do what they want, only kind or compassionate because it benefits them. That's not to say they aren't friendly or nice people sometimes. A local Satanic store owner claimed that when he met LaVey, "He was just he nicest, most genuine guy". I'm not buyin' it. What I see is a mockery of my values. If everything is equal in value, then nothing is valuable. The line in my sig doesn't mean everything is as worthy as everything else. Unless anyone can argue that "The OC on FOX" will ever have the inspirational power that Beethoven's 9th or Final Fantasy or the Buddha have had so far. Besides which, whatever I may believe about the necessary existence of evil, I still believe it is much better for people to be good to each other with no thought of reward and for inspiration to come from holy or pure things. Well, not selfish reward, anyway. Kindness benefits everyone, so it should be given without the reservation or hesitation of a person who is weighing what their own benefits will be.
Quote: Quote: Yes, I do. Because I admire not only what is good, but I am in awe of the great variety of existence and I am glad of it, even if it means that terrible things must occur to keep that variety intact. And why her? There are so many better demons in your mythos to worship.
You might consider them better. The legend of her being an attacker of newborn children makes her an interesting example of female cruelty and I like her defiance of Adam. She's a jealous woman, bitter, and treacherous. For the most part, she's a model of the characteristics I despise.
Quote: I mean- really- have you considered being a Theistic Satanist yet?
No form of Satanism, ever. See above. |
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:50 pm
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Quote: Once more with English please?
Well, that certainly looked like English to me. I'll write it with a Boston accent next time.
Quote: Source for that? Way I hear it, it all depends on the type of offence.
And the boy wins a cigar. However, I highly doubt that saying the word "toots" will bring the UN crashing down.
Quote: We know what you meant. What we mean is that your argument's premise is logically faulty. "It could have possibly been altered and I'm too lazy to check the originals" doesn't really cut it. It's called argument from potential and it's a logical fallacy.
It's common sense, it's not about a specific thing. Show me one ancient document that has NEVER been altered and that is exactly what the original author wanted. Wait.. how will you know if that's what they wanted since they're dead. Even better point- it will probably NEVER be the original text because many texts,etc. were shared by spoken word. And we've all played the telephone game. (note: where one person says one thing, then passes it on to the next person, by the end of the game all the details are incorrect and the original story is gone.)
That, ladies and gents, is what my argument is about. NOT about translation errors or other things which have been mentioned.
Quote: Would you like me to run through your post and highlight the vast bounty of your really really bad spelling mistakes, your fragrant ignorance of the rules of grammar and syntactic structure and your repeated lack of sentence clauses? How about we drop the spelling corrections altogether. It makes you look petulant, not to mention (because your own is so bad) not the brightest fork in the dishwasher.
Please do, I believe I'd find some erotic pleasure in that. |
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 2:57 pm
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Deoridhe Vertigo_Kiwi Quote: I am being direct with you. Do not do it again or I shall report you to the Mods for a violation of the ToS. Trolling is against the rules afterall. I only did it once, so really there won't be an "again" until after another again. The normal punishment routine takes place after 3 strikes, not 2. I would suggest you not speak for the Moderators int erms of "normal punishment." In addition, Moderator action in a guild can be very different from Moderator action on Gaia as a whole.
Ei Ei, Captain. And if that's being too formal/personal to you, then I'll give you my deepest apologies. I honestly never knew saying "toots" would be so controversial. I understand and will now censor my posts for any "personal" phrases I might use. |
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:16 pm
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Aesi That's one hell of a judgment on someone whose beliefs you have little familiarity with.
I shall not make the same mistake again, 'kay?
Quote: I've known too bloody many Satanists to be comfortable with them.
Quote: As they have described their religion, it's a kind of spiritual anarchy.
THOSE EVIL ATHIESTS! How dare they create an ideology outside of divinity.
Proof this is a function of Satanism please. Anton's Satanism had a lovely set of morals attached to it.
Quote: everyone should do what they want, Quote: only kind or compassionate because it benefits them.
Quote: A local Satanic store owner claimed that when he met LaVey, "He was just he nicest, most genuine guy".
Too bad your opinion is based on poor experiences with reported "Satanists". Also- it's fallacious. Guild by Association. isn't a valid argument against them.
Quote: What I see is a mockery of my values.
I need to make a good ORLY owl for s**t like this.
Quote: If everything is equal in value, then nothing is valuable.
Quote: The line in my sig doesn't mean everything is as worthy as everything else. Unless anyone can argue that "The OC on FOX" will ever have the inspirational power that Beethoven's 9th or Final Fantasy or the Buddha have had so far.
Quote: Besides which, whatever I may believe about the necessary existence of evil, I still believe it is much better for people to be good to each other with no thought of reward and for inspiration to come from holy or pure things.
Quote: Kindness benefits everyone, so it should be given without the reservation or hesitation of a person who is weighing what their own benefits will be.
Quote: You might consider them better. The legend of her being an attacker of newborn children makes her an interesting example of female cruelty and I like her defiance of Adam.
Care to elaborate on that?
Quote: No form of Satanism, ever. See above.
That phrase in this context is a poorly dressed up version of Appeal to Popularity. Try again.
Quote: Show me one ancient document that has NEVER been altered
To date, you can still buy a copy of it without the additional vowels. It is really quite interesting.
Quote: Wait.. how will you know if that's what they wanted since they're dead.
Quote: Even better point- it will probably NEVER be the original text because many texts,etc. were shared by spoken word.
Quote: That, ladies and gents, is what my argument is about. |
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:39 pm
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Posted: Fri Oct 13, 2006 3:57 pm
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Hey! I just joined this guild, and this thread and the question it suggested looked interesting to me! So, here I go answering the questions! smile
Do you know the names of the main dieties you worship and/or work with (if any)?
Well, that's sort of a complicated answer. I work with several deities, but I only generally worship one. The one I worship on a regular basis has not given me a name to call Her. It really isn't entirely necessary for the way we interact, so I don't press the issue. The gods I work with generally depend on the scenario. Bastet is a favorite because I have some close ties with people who worship her. Ganesha has also become a current popular one for reasons explained below. There are a handful of others, but these are the main ones.
Do you understand the things they actually represent?
I should hope so.
How did you begin your relationship(s) with said dieties?
Bastet I came into contact with through a friend. There was a long interesting process in there, which I really don't feel like going into at the moment, but that was about it. Ganesha fell into my lap, and I do mean that literally, but he seems to like me, and I like him, so that works out well. The third, the unnamed Goddess, identified herself to me through several means over the course of about a year as I was leaving Christianity. She has been with me ever since.
Why do you think you were chosen by or chose your dieties?
Well, I didn't really choose them. And why they chose me, I cannot really say. With some of them, I think I was just in the right place at the right time. With the unnamed One, I'm rather sure She sought me out for some reason, but She has not told me what that is yet. I rather doubt She ever will. Why should She? She's a goddess, and I'm just a human.
Are there groups that believe that they dieties you follow are part of their closed Path/religion, and are therefore not allowed to be used by you or anyone outside their path?
Honestly, probably. I've gotten flack from people before because I work with gods from different pantheons. I figure that's more their problem than mine, though, since the gods I'm with basically chose me, not the other way around.
If so, why do you believe you do have a legitimate right to call on said diety? (This is NOT meant as a derogatory or trolling question, but as an honest query)
Yes, I do. They chose me, not the other way around, so I suppose you could say it's divine mandate, if you want to be a**l. *shrugs* Either way, I try not to let those people bother me. Religion, even more specifically Paganism, is personal. I got out of Christianity not because I stopped believing in God or Jesus, but because it was highly impersonal, and there was a lot of, "well, the Pope said this, so it must be true," and, "well, the Bishop said that, so you have to obey his ideas!" I dunno. It just seemed like the point of Paganism was to find what worked, and take what was given, and go with it. *shrugs*
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