Irish Celtic Paganism FAQ

[saint dreya]

i see it weird here too.

CuAnn - there's one book that a number of people have spoken of in different circles (specifically ADF as well as at PantheaCon), by Erynn Rowan Laurie, here. she mentions, or gives indication, that the use of trees, or words, to remember the Ogham are likened to a mnemonic device. would you agree with this? or would you say the words already associated are more static than that?  

[too2sweet]

I was going to PM you, but....yea thread!!!

I've had several people asking about Druids lately, and I'd like to be able to point them to reputable sources that discuss historically what Druids were.

Are Hutton's books on the subject a good place for them to start (or a particular one - since I noticed that there are several), or is there another source that would be better?

Also (all things considered) how accurate is this article?

Thanks!  

[TeaDidikai]

CuAnnan

Small list of Gods and Goddesses

Dead link Hun.

Quote:

and was a secret written language known only to the Druids. It's most common function was to mark land-boundaries or to record important births, marriages and deaths.

If it was limited to the Druids, why was it used to mark land boundaries. Wouldn't those have been needed to be understood by everyone?

Quote:

Witches and Shamans were respected in Celtic Society.

What are the Irish terms for these traditions?  

[CuAnnan]

saint dreya

i see it weird here too.

CuAnn - there's one book that a number of people have spoken of in different circles (specifically ADF as well as at PantheaCon), by Erynn Rowan Laurie, here. she mentions, or gives indication, that the use of trees, or words, to remember the Ogham are likened to a mnemonic device. would you agree with this? or would you say the words already associated are more static than that?

There are scores of Ogham alphabets. The Ogham Tract lists 100.
That they were used as a mnemonic is a fairly sound assumption to make, but it is an assumption none-the-less. I say this not to discredit the assumption, it is one I take, however, there is no real evidence save the conclusions one makes from reading lit like the Ogham Tract.

Too2sweet, the article is not very accurate. It makes a tonne of scholastic mistakes like referring to "Celtic Society". If you haven't heard my spiel on this, feel free to ask.
Secondly, she completely ignores all of the non "noble savage" duties of the draoi, turning herself into a complete hypocrite.
Thirdly, and finally, she offers no citations for any of her work. Scorplett has a lsit of cited duties and roles of the Draoi. I'm sure if you ask her nicely she'll re-post it.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

CuAnnan

It makes a tonne of scholastic mistakes like referring to "Celtic Society". If you haven't heard my spiel on this, feel free to ask.

*raises hand*
I think I've seen you speak about this in the M&R, but I'm not for certain.
Can you speak on it?

Quote:

Thirdly, and finally, she offers no citations for any of her work. Scorplett has a lsit of cited duties and roles of the Draoi. I'm sure if you ask her nicely she'll re-post it.

*shines the scorplett beacon*  

[CuAnnan]

TeaDidikai

CuAnnan

Small list of Gods and Goddesses

Dead link Hun.

Hrm.. dammit, I quite liked that list.

TeaDidikai

Quote:

and was a secret written language known only to the Druids. It's most common function was to mark land-boundaries or to record important births, marriages and deaths.

If it was limited to the Druids, why was it used to mark land boundaries. Wouldn't those have been needed to be understood by everyone?

Not at all. Standing stones were taboo to move, so if there were every a debate about who the land belonged to, any of the Brehon could read it.

TeaDidikai

Quote:

Witches and Shamans were respected in Celtic Society.

What are the Irish terms for these traditions?

I have to admit. I was guilty of using culturally accessible terms which either present a false representation of what I was trying to represent or was using words which I did not know to be from cultures elsewhere.
The terms are varied depending on what specific trad you're talking about.
Aos Dana, Cailleach, Sagart are the predominant ones.  

[CuAnnan]

Violet Song jat Shariff

CuAnnan

It makes a tonne of scholastic mistakes like referring to "Celtic Society". If you haven't heard my spiel on this, feel free to ask.

*raises hand*
I think I've seen you speak about this in the M&R, but I'm not for certain.
Can you speak on it?

Saying "The CElts" is a lot like saying "The speakers of Romance languages".
It makes it impossible to make any declarative statements without tarring five or six cultures with the same brush that had little more in common than the speakers of Romance languages.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

CuAnnan

Violet Song jat Shariff

CuAnnan

It makes a tonne of scholastic mistakes like referring to "Celtic Society". If you haven't heard my spiel on this, feel free to ask.

*raises hand*
I think I've seen you speak about this in the M&R, but I'm not for certain.
Can you speak on it?

Saying "The CElts" is a lot like saying "The speakers of Romance languages".
It makes it impossible to make any declarative statements without tarring five or six cultures with the same brush that had little more in common than the speakers of Romance languages.

Ah 3nodding .

Is it more accurate to say then, "Irish-Celt" or "Gael-Celt"?
Sorry if these seem dumb; I'm still kind of confused as to the order of cultures/ethnicities in regards to this topic sweatdrop sweatdrop .  

[TeaDidikai]

CuAnnan

Hrm.. dammit, I quite liked that list.

Any quality replacements?

Quote:

Not at all. Standing stones were taboo to move, so if there were every a debate about who the land belonged to, any of the Brehon could read it.

Still confused. Why is it limited to the Intellectual Elite? What about the educated rulers?

Quote:

I have to admit. I was guilty of using culturally accessible terms which either present a false representation of what I was trying to represent or was using words which I did not know to be from cultures elsewhere.
The terms are varied depending on what specific trad you're talking about.
Aos Dana, Cailleach, Sagart are the predominant ones.

Can you give a bit of an outline as to what those would imply culturally?  

[Taliah]

I think I've heard Cu mention something about P-Celts and... Q-Celts? I've heard that elsewhere too, but I have no idea where to find an accurate explanation for the distinction.

If it's not a trouble to CuAnnan, that would be a wonderful link to read on.  

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

Taliah

I think I've heard Cu mention something about P-Celts and... Q-Celts? I've heard that elsewhere too, but I have no idea where to find an accurate explanation for the distinction.

If it's not a trouble to CuAnnan, that would be a wonderful link to read on.

I can't recall who gave me this; I think it may have been Tea or too2sweet:

Quote:

"Language remains the only ultimately useful criterion for talk of Celtic identity, then.
The surviving Insular Celtic languages fall into two groups. One group, the P-Celtic, includes
modern Welsh and Cornish, both more or less close to the Breton spoken in northern France.
These are sometimes called what are called British or Britonnic dialects, and are akin to the now defunct
language, Pictish. The other group, 'Q-Celtic' includes the daughter languages of
Old Gaelic - Irish, Scottish and Manx."

 

[Taliah]

That's a really interesting tidbit ^_^ Thank you.  

[saint dreya]

CuAnnan

saint dreya

i see it weird here too.

CuAnn - there's one book that a number of people have spoken of in different circles (specifically ADF as well as at PantheaCon), by Erynn Rowan Laurie, here. she mentions, or gives indication, that the use of trees, or words, to remember the Ogham are likened to a mnemonic device. would you agree with this? or would you say the words already associated are more static than that?

There are scores of Ogham alphabets. The Ogham Tract lists 100.
That they were used as a mnemonic is a fairly sound assumption to make, but it is an assumption none-the-less. I say this not to discredit the assumption, it is one I take, however, there is no real evidence save the conclusions one makes from reading lit like the Ogham Tract.

thank you kindly sir, 3nodding

and i apologize, i didn't spell your name correctly. stressed

CuAnnan

Saying "The CElts" is a lot like saying "The speakers of Romance languages".
It makes it impossible to make any declarative statements without tarring five or six cultures with the same brush that had little more in common than the speakers of Romance languages.

this might be outside of your area; with the continental Celts and Germanics so close together, have you seen much bleed over from one to the next?  

[too2sweet]

Cu - Yeah...I was definitely a bit iffy on it with it not having the any kind of source, thanks for the input.

Vi - wasn't me (that I remember anyways)  

[TeaDidikai]

too2sweet

Vi - wasn't me (that I remember anyways)

I was about to say it was you. While I have said similar things, the phrasing isn't very Meish.