How Far Should You Take Religion?

[Priestley]

I do believe Jesus means loving the 'enemies' who were typically thought to be enemies at the time, such as the Samaritans, tax collectors, prostitutes, Roman opressors, criminals, etc.. The applications these days could be, for example, 'nerds' loving 'jocks', the upper echelons of society loving the poor, the 'righteous' loving criminals, etc.

Weighing heavy on my heart is the belief that what Jesus is telling us is that our true enemy is the devil himself. After all, we are not the ones who 'seek to devour' ourselves, nor should we 'seek to devour' others. The devil does enough of that already.  

[Pippi_ashley]

Lickitung

Most religious people would do almost anything for God if they truly believed He had told them to do so; they will often ignore laws (such as regulations on missions, restrictions of religious practice, etc) in order to fulfill God's will. This makes sense, because the word of God is far greater than any human institution: if God wants it done, don't hesitate, right?

But what if it isn't the voice of God?


On July 24, 1984, two Fundamentalist Mormon brothers murdered their sister in law and her 15 month old daughter, believing it was the will of God that they be removed. They would have also removed two other people, but due to a number of circumstances their deaths were thankfully prevented. Today, extremist Muslims are terrorizing the Western World in what they believe to be a holy war. Christians of the past murdered countless Muslims in the crusades and many of their own in the Inquisition.
Most of these people genuinely believed that what they were doing was the will of God, while the rest of the world looked on and thought the opposite.

So, how can you tell if you're really listening to the voice of God?


Every one of the groups/people mentioned above were extremists or fundamentalists to a degree; they claim that average, "mediocre" religious people are just faking it and don't really know God. So how do we know? We should always listen to the voice of God, but how can we be sure that it isn't Satan, a demon, or even our own prejudices coming through? Any helpful scripture on the subject?

God never contradicts Himself, if someone told them to kill someone, and the bible says thou shalt not murder, then it's the devil talking to you.  

[Wind-Whisper]

Lickitung

Most religious people would do almost anything for God if they truly believed He had told them to do so; they will often ignore laws (such as regulations on missions, restrictions of religious practice, etc) in order to fulfill God's will. This makes sense, because the word of God is far greater than any human institution: if God wants it done, don't hesitate, right?

But what if it isn't the voice of God?


On July 24, 1984, two Fundamentalist Mormon brothers murdered their sister in law and her 15 month old daughter, believing it was the will of God that they be removed. They would have also removed two other people, but due to a number of circumstances their deaths were thankfully prevented. Today, extremist Muslims are terrorizing the Western World in what they believe to be a holy war. Christians of the past murdered countless Muslims in the crusades and many of their own in the Inquisition.
Most of these people genuinely believed that what they were doing was the will of God, while the rest of the world looked on and thought the opposite.

So, how can you tell if you're really listening to the voice of God?


Every one of the groups/people mentioned above were extremists or fundamentalists to a degree; they claim that average, "mediocre" religious people are just faking it and don't really know God. So how do we know? We should always listen to the voice of God, but how can we be sure that it isn't Satan, a demon, or even our own prejudices coming through? Any helpful scripture on the subject?

I could give some answers on this subject, but some people may be offended. Not everyone who calls himself a Christian is, in fact, a Christian. I'll just say that some groups are actually Satanic "churches", every bit as much as the so-called "Church of Satan", out in California, is.

Fin out what they teach and believe and ask yourself if they are genuinely Christians - at all.  

[AlpMan]

Lt.Psycho

an example i have is Hitler, he wanted to kill the Jews, i think one of the reasons was because they killed Jesus... but he was a Christian, he always went to his moms grave, he went to Church, also, people steryotype the German soldiers too much, i try adn tell people what the German soldiers really was doing... (since im German lol) the Germans was just trying to protecvt their country, or, "Fatherland" most of them were Christian, and Hitler tried banning out smoking and alot of stuff... it makes you think...
confused

Those are some interesting points. I have some of my own. I am German, and christian, so I've done some studying into German Christianity, especially in the World War two era. I agree, that yes not all German soldiers were Nazis. Everyone sterotypes World war two Germans as anti-semitic psychos. Yes the Nazis placed over six million Jews into early graves, but the factoid that everyone (but me apparently) for gets to mention is that Hitler also killed five million other people. I'm only going to focus on one of those five million right now.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer was a German, Lutheran Pastor during the Nazis rise to power. He saw the Nazis spreading propaganda through the churches, and openly opposed the Reich. He was a founding member of a group known as the 'Confessing Church'. These people had bible study groups all across Germany, beyond the reach of Nazi Propaganda. Eventuallly, he was captured, and was executed just a few months before allied forces took Berlin.

I will not defend Hitler if for no other reason than these actions against Dietrich Bonhoeffer. I feel saddened by the actions of many people, especially those fighting and killing in "the name of God". Is this really what God wants? I cannot feel that this is the case. before doing anything, I suggest that we all pray for guidance, especially in times of great turmoil such as these.  

[Lethkhar]

Fushigi na Butterfly

During the Bible wars were necessary for God to establish His people and to prove His point: that He is, was, and will be the only God worthy of our worship and praise. He had to show His "Lion of Judah" side at high-power because, if you recall, Israel wasn't the brightest lightbulb in the box. Now, God has already proven His point, and "it is finished" through Jesus. He has shown us that He can conquer anyone and anything, including death.

He hasn't conquered Korea yet. wink  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Korea is a man-made nation ... any wars between Korea and other countries are strictly man fighting man. As far as I know, Korea hasn't declared war on God yet.  

[Lethkhar]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Korea is a man-made nation ... any wars between Korea and other countries are strictly man fighting man. As far as I know, Korea hasn't declared war on God yet.

No, but the majority of Korea (Both of them) is atheist. Same with Japan.

What nation isn't man-made?  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Actually, Korea is mostly Catholic. Japan, however, is whatever it feels like depending on their mood, the color of the sky that day, and what day of the week it is. They're very fickle in their beliefs and are ready to jump at the opportunity to accept any religion. Same with alot of African countries.  

[Lethkhar]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Actually, Korea is mostly Catholic. Japan, however, is whatever it feels like depending on their mood, the color of the sky that day, and what day of the week it is. They're very fickle in their beliefs and are ready to jump at the opportunity to accept any religion. Same with alot of African countries.

http://countrystudies.us/north-korea/36.htm

Whatever. rolleyes That "Catholicism" ended 30 years ago.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

I would appreciate a little more politeness if you're going to make your points, even if I am wrong. Thanks.

And I do stand corrected. I have a Korean coworker in her forties and her understanding of Korea was that it was mostly Catholic, and that was my understanding just from what I've seen of alot of Korean people in general. But then again, like you said, Korean Catholicism ended thirty years ago and my friend has been in the U.S. for about fifteen years now.  

[Lethkhar]

Fushigi na Butterfly

I would appreciate a little more politeness if you're going to make your points, even if I am wrong. Thanks.

And I do stand corrected. I have a Korean coworker in her forties and her understanding of Korea was that it was mostly Catholic, and that was my understanding just from what I've seen of alot of Korean people in general. But then again, like you said, Korean Catholicism ended thirty years ago and my friend has been in the U.S. for about fifteen years now.

I would assume that she's from South Korea.  

[Lethkhar]

Cometh The Inquisitor

Lt.Psycho

an example i have is Hitler, he wanted to kill the Jews, i think one of the reasons was because they killed Jesus... but he was a Christian, he always went to his moms grave, he went to Church, also, people steryotype the German soldiers too much, i try adn tell people what the German soldiers really was doing... (since im German lol) the Germans was just trying to protecvt their country, or, "Fatherland" most of them were Christian, and Hitler tried banning out smoking and alot of stuff... it makes you think...
confused

Just to clear up this misconception...
Hitler was not Christian.

Hitler simply held respect for the sway that the Church held over people.

Joseph Goebbels

The Führer is deeply religious, but deeply anti-Christian. He regards Christianity as a symptom of decay.

"My feelings as a Christian points me to my Lord and Savior as a fighter. It points me to the man who once in loneliness, surrounded by a few followers, recognized these Jews for what they were and summoned men to fight against them and who, God's truth! was greatest not as a sufferer but as a fighter. In boundless love as a Christian and as a man I read through the passage which tells us how the Lord at last rose in His might and seized the scourge to drive out of the Temple the brood of vipers and adders. How terrific was His fight for the world against the Jewish poison. To-day, after two thousand years, with deepest emotion I recognize more profoundly than ever before the fact that it was for this that He had to shed His blood upon the Cross. As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice... And if there is anything which could demonstrate that we are acting rightly it is the distress that daily grows. For as a Christian I have also a duty to my own people.

-Adolf Hitler, in a speech on 12 April 1922 (Norman H. Baynes, ed. The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, April 1922-August 1939, Vol. 1 of 2, pp. 19-20, Oxford University Press, 1942)


Oh, and for future reference don't use wikipedia in a serious discussion. stare

http://nobeliefs.com/Hitler1.htm  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Hitler was also a very sadistic man. If he was truly a Christian and had allowed the Spirit to guide his interpretations of the Scriptures he would have understood that Jesus' frustration towards the money-changers and prostitutes and everyone that had gathered in the temple that had caused His outburst was towards them only, not towards Jews in general. And that Jesus' statement towards the Pharisees was towards the Pharisees only. When Jesus makes generalizations they're usually pretty easy to point out. These situations are clearly specific to the situaiton and people.  

[Lethkhar]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Hitler was also a very sadistic man. If he was truly a Christian and had allowed the Spirit to guide his interpretations of the Scriptures he would have understood that Jesus' frustration towards the money-changers and prostitutes and everyone that had gathered in the temple that had caused His outburst was towards them only, not towards Jews in general. And that Jesus' statement towards the Pharisees was towards the Pharisees only. When Jesus makes generalizations they're usually pretty easy to point out. These situations are clearly specific to the situaiton and people.

Not my problem. Adolf Hitler was still a very devout Christian. If it weren't for the Bible he wouldn't have misinterpreted it in the first place and the Holocaust may never have happened. That's all I'm trying to prove.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Lethkhar

Fushigi na Butterfly

Hitler was also a very sadistic man. If he was truly a Christian and had allowed the Spirit to guide his interpretations of the Scriptures he would have understood that Jesus' frustration towards the money-changers and prostitutes and everyone that had gathered in the temple that had caused His outburst was towards them only, not towards Jews in general. And that Jesus' statement towards the Pharisees was towards the Pharisees only. When Jesus makes generalizations they're usually pretty easy to point out. These situations are clearly specific to the situaiton and people.

Not my problem. Adolf Hitler was still a very devout Christian. If it weren't for the Bible he wouldn't have misinterpreted it in the first place and the Holocaust may never have happened. That's all I'm trying to prove.

That may be so, but in his devotion he was twisted and gave a terrible representation of what Christianity is actually about. The Bible and those who compiled it did not intend for it to be so grossly misinterpreted and Hitler should not be taken as the poster child of Christianity. Yes, the Bible has led to misinterpretations and possibly even Hitler, but so has the Koran; if it weren't for that, 9/11 never would have happened.