Preps vs Goth! The showdown.

[mee_shee]

It's all a point of view.

It's up to the specific person whether goth or prep, to decide who they want to be.

This is a hard topic.  

[Dorian Requiem]

((I doubt more will come unless this thread picks up again))  

[GilAskan]

I think that this debate died when people saw the first post, thought "I'm not reading that..." and moved on. I find that it's hard to keep people's attention for more than a few sentences at a time.  

[Genica Pussywillow]

I disagree. Saying that goths must reject most things mainstream isn't right, I always thought goths were allowed to like what they like, or they're just as bad as the preps who do everything their friends are doing. But they have to like something gothic and not be the same as everyone else

Also, I think a goth is someone who listens to goth bands and dresses like a goth (Although the fashion has significantly changed since it first started) . I thought that was rather obvious.  

[GilAskan]

[Rosetta Stoned]

I disagree. Saying that goths must reject most things mainstream isn't right, I always thought goths were allowed to like what they like, or they're just as bad as the preps who do everything their friends are doing. But they have to like something gothic and not be the same as everyone else

Also, I think a goth is someone who listens to goth bands and dresses like a goth (Although the fashion has significantly changed since it first started) . I thought that was rather obvious.

I would agree with you on multiple points.

1) I STRONGLY agree with the statement that goths don't try to avoid trends, but do what they want.

Why? Purposefully being unique and avoiding trends is no different than following them: you're still being controlled by what's popular. If khakis are popular, you wear jeans. When jeans get popular, you stop wearing them. How is that not being controlled by trends?

2) Overall, after contemplating it for years, I would say that the goth-culture formed around the music scene, and therefore, being goth has more to do with the music scene than anything. I would say with some confidence, in my opinion, a goth is an avid fan of goth-rock (and related genres) and a supporter of the gothrock scene.

3) However, I wouldn't entirely say that fashion is a factor. I think that many goths have similar tastes in fashion, and many goths are influenced by the fashion of the music-scene, but I wouldn't say that it's really a part of being goth. It's a characteristic that many goths share, but not "criteria" so to speak.

4) As said, I think musical affiliation is the primary factor in being a goth. However, that's not to say that that's the only similarity between goths. I think that goths tend to be intellectual, artistic, sensitive, and creative. I wouldn't say that those are factors of "what is a goth", but are common traits that many goths share.  

[Hunter of the Dammed]

Ndoki

Okay so I'm sure this is going to turn out to be a very long writing, try to bear with me. There's nothing I hate more than people saying "I never read it but I think you're wrong because..."

So, I have decided, I'm gonna put everything on the line, and spill everything I have come to learn about a few subjects.. namely...

*Ahem.*

Posers and why goths and preps don't get along.

First of all we need to look at what those mean. Ignoring historical tribes and such, a goth can be summed up as someone who is a free-thinker, who chooses to break away from the crowd and do what they want. Because of this many are stereotyped as 'outcasts' or 'freaks', but freaks all throughout history were merely people who were different. Now on the other hand, preps, what are they? Preps can be a few things, but really boiled down they usually have one thing in common, they follow the crowd, they are the ones that want to be popular and like everyone else. There are many other characteristics they exhibit, but that would be the most common by far.

Now looking at those two definitions it's pretty simple why there is so much animosity between the two groups. Preps want to be like everyone, and they want everyone to be like them. Goths on the other hand want to break free of the fads and pop culture, so preps look at goths as people too 'freakish' to be part of the group, and goths look at preps like clones following each other. Now it's obvious that there would be friction between the two, and it's pretty natural too.

Now many of the time people are defined by what they wear, this is both caused by shallow people, cultural stereotypes, and wannabes. Now what is a wannabe? Well first we have to look at the stereotypes. They say that preps have to wear lots of pink, and the new fasions, they have to be giggly blondes with tons of makeup. On the other hand goths have to listen to bands like Korn, Slipknot, Linkin Park, Papa Roach, bahaus, etc. They all have to wear lots of black and love the color red and deep purples with their black. They have to wear lots of makeup (more than preps sometimes!) and dye their hair black. Chains, spikes, and fishnets are also very common. Ironically enough if you refer to the above definitions goth is about breaking out of sterotypes and being unique right? That's where wannabes come in. Wannabes (or as I usually refer to them, skin goths.) are the ones who want to fit in to the goth crowd for all the wrong reasons. They are the people that buy the same clothes, dress the same way, and wear the same makeup as all the other goths, without realising that doing that is actually more preppy than goth. Because of that though wannabes perpetuate all the stereotypes, and sometimes make them even worse.

Another stereotype is that all goths hate anything that's mainstream. This is both right and wrong in some ways. There is no written rule that goths have to instantly reject anything mainstream, but it's a general case that since it goes along with following the crowd mainstream things are generally avoided, or just need to be that much better to be accepted by some.

Now the drawback of goths (the personality, not the outfit) is the fact that since it's all about being unique and not how you dress or what you wear it's quite hard to tell who is actually goth, many don't even realise it. Generally those who frequent art galleries, like the fine arts (such as dance and theatre) and who appretiate the finer things in life are goth. Goth has always been about the finer points in everything, in the extravagent and the intelligent, until lately the popular goth image has been twisted to represent someone who listens to "gothic" bands, wears lots of black, chains, spikes, heavy makeup, etc. which causes much of the confusion.

In closing this is everything I have learned about what it means to be goth. I'm not ashamed nor have any doubt in calling myself goth, even though I don't have black hair or wear black. I like to laugh, I rarely wear any makeup, and when I do it's just a quick swipe of the eyeliner. I like to watch live theatre, and I love fine art. I prefer listening to classical and operatic music over slipknot, and I'm not obscessed with death. My name is Ndoki and I AM GOTH!



*Braces self for attacks.*

"calmy approches" your the normal goth ive met, and i hate make up, goth jeans wiegh me down so I wear regular black jeans. (carpenter. Usually with a tight muscle shirt. cause my fshion sence is based aroun the ability to fight corectly. Second death in truth scares the s**t out of me. I may be capable of murder, but by no means am i ready to die.
i listen to dance mixes, (casacade if you must know.) , j-pop,irsh bagpipes, japeanes fluet, and heavy metal. there Im done  

[-Lasciate Ogni Speranza-]

GilAskan

I never said that goths listened only to goth rock. I said that goths were fans of it. Goths, in my experience, have far more diverse tastes than most people, it's just that a common uniting factor among many goths is a fondess for certain genres.

|You have just been punjabbed|

You said, goths were fans of goth rock, whereas I don't listen to a lot of goth music because it isn't widely available to me. I listen to what I like, which is pretty much open to any genre of music.

I'm not really sure about goth developing around the music scene, because most people like music. For me, music is a way of life, and even if I wasn't "goth" it would still be a major factor in my life.

I used to move on and say "This music sucks," even though I really liked it, because that's how stuff moves along in the "crowd." Now, I just like what I want to like, and ******** whoever says otherwise.

I do enjoy lots of fine art and theatre, but I view that as my personality and also my duty as a performance artist. The reason the baggy T-Shirts I have are all black is because color usually looks more vibrant on a black background, and also because I just enjoy wearing dark and/or eccentric clothing.

Goth, as are other group styl;es, is defined by personal decision, and trial-and-error to see what works for you in life and what doesn't.

|Have a nice day!|

 

[Spooky Wasabi Princess]

Very nice.

One of the few "let's examine what goth is" posts that doesn't make the writer and the culture look like morons.  

[Paine218]

im sry but my head would have exploded if i read one more of those longgg posts....all i know is i have nothing against preps.......some of my friends are preps and they're really nice...some of them even thought i was very pretty...but some of them have to be prejudice assholes and hate me for no reason whatsoevr.... confused ....  

[Neon~Starshine]

I don't think a Goth is simply a social deviant, its a kind of social deviant, specifically an intellectual one with refined tastes and a strange inclination towards the Victorian era.

Goth was originally a subculture of punk. The difference was that punks said, "The world is a bitter place and I can see this clearly. This makes me pissed!" while Goths said, "The world is a bitter place and I can see this clearly. This makes me melancholy."

In a sense, the predominantly black clothing and odd fascination with death that many true Goths do indeed share has to do with a willingness to realize one's own mortality and delve into the "darker" sides of humanity. Death is an intensely spiritual thing, not a morbid one.

Regretfully, poseur Goths fail to understand that this darker view of life isn't self-pitying-necrophiliac kind of thing, its much more intelligent than that, so we end up with these all-black-wearing-punks, emo morons who think they're Goth, and other assortments of people that need to conform and feel fascination with and longing toward Goth, which is because they find it "cool" or so freakish that it will help them appear to be rebelling.  

[bluerain202]

People need to get past the image of clothing. If you follow a different fashion then someone else, why be offended by their dress?
As the whole "prep goth" thing is purely fashion rolleyes .  

[lysseee]

GilAskan

[Rosetta Stoned]

I disagree. Saying that goths must reject most things mainstream isn't right, I always thought goths were allowed to like what they like, or they're just as bad as the preps who do everything their friends are doing. But they have to like something gothic and not be the same as everyone else

Also, I think a goth is someone who listens to goth bands and dresses like a goth (Although the fashion has significantly changed since it first started) . I thought that was rather obvious.

I would agree with you on multiple points.

1) I STRONGLY agree with the statement that goths don't try to avoid trends, but do what they want.

Why? Purposefully being unique and avoiding trends is no different than following them: you're still being controlled by what's popular. If khakis are popular, you wear jeans. When jeans get popular, you stop wearing them. How is that not being controlled by trends?

2) Overall, after contemplating it for years, I would say that the goth-culture formed around the music scene, and therefore, being goth has more to do with the music scene than anything. I would say with some confidence, in my opinion, a goth is an avid fan of goth-rock (and related genres) and a supporter of the gothrock scene.

3) However, I wouldn't entirely say that fashion is a factor. I think that many goths have similar tastes in fashion, and many goths are influenced by the fashion of the music-scene, but I wouldn't say that it's really a part of being goth. It's a characteristic that many goths share, but not "criteria" so to speak.

4) As said, I think musical affiliation is the primary factor in being a goth. However, that's not to say that that's the only similarity between goths. I think that goths tend to be intellectual, artistic, sensitive, and creative. I wouldn't say that those are factors of "what is a goth", but are common traits that many goths share.

as much as it's tempting to think that the subculture arised from the music genre and it's fans, i believe it's the other way around in this case. subcultures are often created by deviants and outcast intellectuals, goth just found it's outbreak, and common ground through the musical genre. goth is, in fact, a complete subculture, meaning it defines a complete lifestyle. many such subcultures have music as their main medium of expression, while the goth subculture has expressed itself through many other (poetry, painting, literature, design, cinema,etc.) as well as music.

goths are not distinguishable by their intellectuality, artistic sense, or anything similar, i'm afraid. it's just that -as i said- subcultures are created by such people, goth not being the only case. beatniks had intellectuals and were artistic, sensitive and creative, hippies -likewise. even the punks had such extraordinary people, for without them there can be no subculture. as for the question of what differentiates them, it's completely about the philosophy, and on that end i agree with Neon~Starshine wholeheartedly.