Eclectic Wicca

[Neko_Bast]

reagun ban

You are stating that you are Wiccan.
You are stating that you do not need to be initiated to be Wiccan.
I was initiated.
Therefore you are stating that I was initiated without need.
Tell me where that train of logic breaks down please.

I'm not saying that initiation is unneccesary. I'm saying that initiation by a coven was unneccesary for me. I was initiated, you're just chosing to ignore that.  

[Neko_Bast]

AyanamiRei

Bast, would you quit PISSING on the YEAR(s) of dedicated study serious wiccans have to go through in preparation for initiation?

Mod, someone pull that livejournal essay on "self granting degrees"

I'm not pissing on dedicated study. I did, and still am, learning and studying. I never said that I have a "first degree."  

[TeaDidikai]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

I'll note that you don't even worship the Wiccan Goddess, as Bast is not the Wiccan Goddess. I also note that you failed to address the fact that your argument is, at it's heart, fallacious bullshit, as I cited on the last page with a list of fallacies that apply to your assertions.

I do not worship Bast as a Wiccan Goddess. I work with her. As for the "Wiccan" Goddess, I work with her on a dayly basis. As far as I can tell there is nothing that says Wiccans only work with the God and Goddess.  

[Neko_Bast]

^-^ well reagun ban, I have found an article that agrees with me. I can evan prove that the auther is from a Lineaged coven.

Quote:

Initiation

and here is the poof.

Quote:

Starkindler Ancestry

 

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

TeaDidikai

I'll note that you don't even worship the Wiccan Goddess, as Bast is not the Wiccan Goddess. I also note that you failed to address the fact that your argument is, at it's heart, fallacious bullshit, as I cited on the last page with a list of fallacies that apply to your assertions.

I do not worship Bast as a Wiccan Goddess. I work with her. As for the "Wiccan" Goddess, I work with her on a dayly basis. As far as I can tell there is nothing that says Wiccans only work with the God and Goddess.

Prey tell us her name then? rolleyes

Only Wiccans work with the Wiccan goddess. One knows her through the Wiccan mysteries.  

[Naomi Tinuveil]

::is so glad she's not wiccan:: wow sweatdrop You guys bite each others heads off. ::Scratches back of head:: scary lol ::Just backs away slowly::  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

^-^ well reagun ban, I have found an article that agrees with me. I can evan prove that the auther is from a Lineaged coven.

Quote:

Initiation

and here is the poof.

Quote:

Starkindler Ancestry

I'll point out a couple things here:

Quote:

We define Wicca as "an Initiatory, Oathbound, Magick-using, Pagan Mystery Priesthood celebrating the Mysteries contained in the Legend of the Descent of the Goddess and in the Charge of the Goddess."

[Cite]

So, in essence, they disagree with you.

From your Article:

Quote:

Self initiation, likewise, is also a gift of the Gods. In the case of self initiation, there is no priest or priestess overseeing the rite. There is also no circle, grove or lodge maintaining and nurturing the current of its Mystery tradition. The solitary practitioner isn't excluded from the Mysteries, though, he merely has to work harder to attain them.

Note at no where does it say WICCAN mysteries.

Also, you have yet to prove the Mysteries that have been given to you are the WICCAN mysteries.

I'll point out another key part of the article:

Quote:

You can't initiate yourself a Gardnerian or Starkindler Wiccan any more than you can anoint yourself Pope or Patriarch. But an initiate is no less an initiate for not being branded with a particular tradition.

In short- your citation supports our position. You're an initiate into a pagan religion. It's just not Wicca.  

[maenad nuri]

In my experience, there are probably ways to worship the same God and Goddess that Wiccans do, without actually being Wiccan. Without access to the Mysteries in the way that we know them to have been founded (ie Gardner and his degreed structure of initation), I wouldn't say you are Wiccan.

You may, inadvertantly be worshiping the same Gods. But not the same religion. The same way that Jews, Christians and Muslims all are worshipping the same God, but in different, and often inconsistant ways.

Neko, it really is in your best interest to learn to debate without these fallacies. Your arguement might carry more intellectual weight if you did.  

[Neko_Bast]

I sent a email to the auther asking for clarification. As soon as I get a reply I'll post it.  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

I'll point out a couple things here:

Quote:

We define Wicca as "an Initiatory, Oathbound, Magick-using, Pagan Mystery Priesthood celebrating the Mysteries contained in the Legend of the Descent of the Goddess and in the Charge of the Goddess."

[Cite]

So, in essence, they disagree with you.

How....explane.  

[TeaDidikai]

Naomi Tinuveil

::is so glad she's not wiccan:: wow sweatdrop You guys bite each others heads off. ::Scratches back of head:: scary lol ::Just backs away slowly::

Of note- I'm not Wiccan.

Also for note- Neither is Neko Bast.  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

TeaDidikai

I'll point out a couple things here:

Quote:

We define Wicca as "an Initiatory, Oathbound, Magick-using, Pagan Mystery Priesthood celebrating the Mysteries contained in the Legend of the Descent of the Goddess and in the Charge of the Goddess."

[Cite]

So, in essence, they disagree with you.

How....explane.

1) Wicca = Initiatory (as into the religion) Therefore, you're not Wiccan as you haven't been initiated into Wicca.

2) You have not recieved the Oathbound Material

3) Mystery: You have not shown you are aware of the Wiccan Mysteries.

The individual you cited belongs to a tradition that says you are a liar, furthermore- his article never says you are Wiccan, it says you are Pagan.  

[Neko_Bast]

Here is another site that agrees that not all Eclectic Wiccans are not "Liers."

Quote:

Wicca: for the rest of us.

 

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

Neko_Bast

TeaDidikai

I'll point out a couple things here:

Quote:

We define Wicca as "an Initiatory, Oathbound, Magick-using, Pagan Mystery Priesthood celebrating the Mysteries contained in the Legend of the Descent of the Goddess and in the Charge of the Goddess."

[Cite]

So, in essence, they disagree with you.

How....explane.

1) Wicca = Initiatory (as into the religion) Therefore, you're not Wiccan as you haven't been initiated into Wicca.

2) You have not recieved the Oathbound Material

3) Mystery: You have not shown you are aware of the Wiccan Mysteries.

The individual you cited belongs to a tradition that says you are a liar, furthermore- his article never says you are Wiccan, it says you are Pagan.

Untill I get a reply form him on clarifying his article i'm not going to comment. You will never think I'm Wiccan without proof that you can understand.