Sexuality within Christianity

[freelance lover]

Testicular Diabeetus

freelance lover

Testicular Diabeetus

What's the role and purpose of sex? Just between man and wife? Between two married partners? One night stands are awesome? For pleasure or procreation?
I think it is for reproduction and pleasure. One night stands are stupid and pointless, also careless, I mean that is how people get STD's and other stuff. e.e
I think it should be between a married couple, or a couple that has been together for a long time.
Like for instance me and my fiancée have been together for two years, we do it but we are careful, if I were to get pregnant we would be mature about it, not abort it, we have talked about this.
If you have questions feel free to ask.

So would you consider abortion the immature option? Or is it just something you and your fiancé have discussed as not being an option for you guys?

Abortion is murder.
That baby is a living human, and aborting it is the easy way out of the problem.
Children are a gift from God.
It is not an option for us, not at all.
But I do consider adoption if we cant afford it.
And if we are ready we will keep it.

I just want to clarify, since I read that sentence two different ways xD I personally am pro-choice, but abortion has never been a clear cut topic. There are entirely too many gray areas.

It's good you guys know what your option are and it's been discussed ahead of time. That's very responsible and more couples should do that together before engaging in sex.  

[Matt Pniewski]

Testicular Diabeetus

freelance lover

Testicular Diabeetus

What's the role and purpose of sex? Just between man and wife? Between two married partners? One night stands are awesome? For pleasure or procreation?
I think it is for reproduction and pleasure. One night stands are stupid and pointless, also careless, I mean that is how people get STD's and other stuff. e.e
I think it should be between a married couple, or a couple that has been together for a long time.
Like for instance me and my fiancée have been together for two years, we do it but we are careful, if I were to get pregnant we would be mature about it, not abort it, we have talked about this.
If you have questions feel free to ask.

So would you consider abortion the immature option? Or is it just something you and your fiancé have discussed as not being an option for you guys?

Abortion is murder.
That baby is a living human, and aborting it is the easy way out of the problem.
Children are a gift from God.
It is not an option for us, not at all.
But I do consider adoption if we cant afford it.
And if we are ready we will keep it.

Two things- A Child is not a "Problem", nor is abortion an easy decision. I have a friend who made that choice, and it hurt her to have to make that choice, and she regrets it every day of her life. It's not easy for people, like a lot of pro life people want to think. It's not a matter of "Well, I'm pregnant, but hell, I can get an abortion." It's NEVER that simple. Pro Life people need to realize that.

And by treating people who consider Abortion as a possibility as potential killers, you aren't helping your point. People don't want to listen to you, because for the most part, the pro life movement is full of short sited, religiously fanatic, irritating jerks who think that an aborted fetus looking gross is a good argument against Abortion.


Of course, I've made this clear- I call myself prochoice only because I do not support legislation on the issue. I rather simply push Planned Parenthood, push contraception, get rid of Abstinence only education, and Abortion will be gone simply without the need for it. You make it illegal, what happens? It still happens, just out of sight, out of mind. It doesn't REALLY help.  

[Testicular Diabeetus]

Matt Pniewski

Testicular Diabeetus

freelance lover

Testicular Diabeetus

What's the role and purpose of sex? Just between man and wife? Between two married partners? One night stands are awesome? For pleasure or procreation?
I think it is for reproduction and pleasure. One night stands are stupid and pointless, also careless, I mean that is how people get STD's and other stuff. e.e
I think it should be between a married couple, or a couple that has been together for a long time.
Like for instance me and my fiancée have been together for two years, we do it but we are careful, if I were to get pregnant we would be mature about it, not abort it, we have talked about this.
If you have questions feel free to ask.

So would you consider abortion the immature option? Or is it just something you and your fiancé have discussed as not being an option for you guys?

Abortion is murder.
That baby is a living human, and aborting it is the easy way out of the problem.
Children are a gift from God.
It is not an option for us, not at all.
But I do consider adoption if we cant afford it.
And if we are ready we will keep it.

Two things- A Child is not a "Problem", nor is abortion an easy decision. I have a friend who made that choice, and it hurt her to have to make that choice, and she regrets it every day of her life. It's not easy for people, like a lot of pro life people want to think. It's not a matter of "Well, I'm pregnant, but hell, I can get an abortion." It's NEVER that simple. Pro Life people need to realize that.

And by treating people who consider Abortion as a possibility as potential killers, you aren't helping your point. People don't want to listen to you, because for the most part, the pro life movement is full of short sited, religiously fanatic, irritating jerks who think that an aborted fetus looking gross is a good argument against Abortion.


Of course, I've made this clear- I call myself prochoice only because I do not support legislation on the issue. I rather simply push Planned Parenthood, push contraception, get rid of Abstinence only education, and Abortion will be gone simply without the need for it. You make it illegal, what happens? It still happens, just out of sight, out of mind. It doesn't REALLY help.

Babies aren't a problem but if you aren't ready for one it is a problematic situation until you you decide on what you are going to do. =/  

[[GoGo]]

freelance lover

So this post is largely fueled by my rage at congress trying to cut funding to Planned Parenthood, but for everyone's sake I'll avoid posting my personal beliefs until I'm more calm xD

But this whole bout of anger has lead me to the question about the delicate dynamic of sexuality and Christianity. There's a whole slew of beliefs in the regard, and lots of things the Bible supposedly says, so I'm curious as to y'all's thoughts.

What's the role and purpose of sex? Just between man and wife? Between two married partners? One night stands are awesome? For pleasure or procreation?
What about women? Are we supposed to be submissive or can we wear the pants?
Birth control? Yay or nay?
Do we have the right or calling to place our own sexual beliefs and morals on other people?
Anything I missed?

The role and purpose of sex is for one to make some babies, but most importantly as it is stated in Genesis is to be come one. Oneness is the main focus of sex, that brings in the next question as why (i personally) think sex is made for marriage. Marriage is where oneness is needed and where it places the most important roll since that will be the person you spend hte rest of your life with. But believe me God knew what he was doing when he made sex, yes its awesome and it feels good but he did put boundaries on it.
Now the roll of women being submissive to men, the thing is paul is talking about christian women and men when he is stating this in eohesians i believe. But right after that he tells the men to love their wives just like christ loved the church. Now that in itself is a much harder task for a man then for a women being submissive to their husband. ANd no paul isn't talking about a "shut up women i'm the man" type of submission, its a submission of respect due to the fact that the husband should be providing everything he can physically and spiritually just like christ did for the church.

Birth Control, yo if you dont want kids yet then use it, nuff said. I know i'll have my wife use it for our first years of marriage until we are ready.

Now pushing our beliefs on other people i think we should do to a point. I have seen sex in a relationship destroy people since they couldn't handle it. Plus if you wait to have sex until marriage, then that one person you have sex with will be the best thing in the world and you wont have others to compare to. Yes i understand peopel have sex before marriage and i dont judge them, it is their decision, but i personally think it is better to wait it out.

Here is an analogy my youth pastor gave me a long time ago about this, hopefully it makes sense. Say you are a homeless person, some stranger comes up to you and offers you the biggest, meatiest, tastyiest sandwhich you have ever seen, i mean this puppy has everything you love and it just makes your stomach growl and your mind go crazy (now you havn't eaten in awhile). But the stranger tells you "K look, i can either give you this sandwich now and it will satisfy you for now and maybe a little longer then that, or you can wait a month and i'll come back and supply you with food to last you for the rest of your life."
Temptation is tempting, oxymoron i know, but if we wait it out; its so much better.

thats my 3 1/2 cents.  

[freelance lover]

[GoGo]

The role and purpose of sex is for one to make some babies, but most importantly as it is stated in Genesis is to be come one. Oneness is the main focus of sex, that brings in the next question as why (i personally) think sex is made for marriage. Marriage is where oneness is needed and where it places the most important roll since that will be the person you spend hte rest of your life with. But believe me God knew what he was doing when he made sex, yes its awesome and it feels good but he did put boundaries on it.
Now the roll of women being submissive to men, the thing is paul is talking about christian women and men when he is stating this in eohesians i believe. But right after that he tells the men to love their wives just like christ loved the church. Now that in itself is a much harder task for a man then for a women being submissive to their husband. ANd no paul isn't talking about a "shut up women i'm the man" type of submission, its a submission of respect due to the fact that the husband should be providing everything he can physically and spiritually just like christ did for the church.

Birth Control, yo if you dont want kids yet then use it, nuff said. I know i'll have my wife use it for our first years of marriage until we are ready.

Now pushing our beliefs on other people i think we should do to a point. I have seen sex in a relationship destroy people since they couldn't handle it. Plus if you wait to have sex until marriage, then that one person you have sex with will be the best thing in the world and you wont have others to compare to. Yes i understand peopel have sex before marriage and i dont judge them, it is their decision, but i personally think it is better to wait it out.

Here is an analogy my youth pastor gave me a long time ago about this, hopefully it makes sense. Say you are a homeless person, some stranger comes up to you and offers you the biggest, meatiest, tastyiest sandwhich you have ever seen, i mean this puppy has everything you love and it just makes your stomach growl and your mind go crazy (now you havn't eaten in awhile). But the stranger tells you "K look, i can either give you this sandwich now and it will satisfy you for now and maybe a little longer then that, or you can wait a month and i'll come back and supply you with food to last you for the rest of your life."
Temptation is tempting, oxymoron i know, but if we wait it out; its so much better.

thats my 3 1/2 cents.

I agree with you in a sense, about almost everything. While I didn't wait for marriage personally, I waited until I had a partner I felt could be my life partner. With people waiting much much longer to get married, both age-wise as well as the length of the courtship or engagement, it just seems cruel to wait. I don't believe a legal document or ceremony makes you married- I believe the commitment of the couple does. So I advocate waiting for that commitment, even if it's not on paper.

The only thing I really take issue with is women being submissive to men. I don't have an issue with the dynamic you described provided that's what both parties want and are comfortable with. I was reading Boy Meets Girl, which is a book about Christian courtship, and the guy gave a really lengthy argument as to why the man is the leader and the woman submissive. I didn't disagree with him, that's just not the dynamic I prefer in my relationship. I would rather my partner and I be equals and make choices together. But thats just for me, other couples are free to have their own dynamic provided it's healthy and is making everyone happy.

I do agree too that we can "push" our beliefs on others in the form of friendly advice. Like, if my friend is going around sleeping with a ton of guys, I might let her know I'm worried something bad might happen to her. If she's Christian I may even ask her (depending on our relationship) if her actions are keeping her in harmony with God. But I'm not going to judge.  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

freelance lover

The only thing I really take issue with is women being submissive to men. I don't have an issue with the dynamic you described provided that's what both parties want and are comfortable with. I was reading Boy Meets Girl, which is a book about Christian courtship, and the guy gave a really lengthy argument as to why the man is the leader and the woman submissive. I didn't disagree with him, that's just not the dynamic I prefer in my relationship. I would rather my partner and I be equals and make choices together. But thats just for me, other couples are free to have their own dynamic provided it's healthy and is making everyone happy.

I noticed a few times in a few different women's prayer books the prayer to help them be more submissive to their husbands. That's a little... sickening to me.  

[freelance lover]

The Amazing Ryuu

freelance lover

The only thing I really take issue with is women being submissive to men. I don't have an issue with the dynamic you described provided that's what both parties want and are comfortable with. I was reading Boy Meets Girl, which is a book about Christian courtship, and the guy gave a really lengthy argument as to why the man is the leader and the woman submissive. I didn't disagree with him, that's just not the dynamic I prefer in my relationship. I would rather my partner and I be equals and make choices together. But thats just for me, other couples are free to have their own dynamic provided it's healthy and is making everyone happy.

I noticed a few times in a few different women's prayer books the prayer to help them be more submissive to their husbands. That's a little... sickening to me.

I know, right. And no matter how people argue for it, I just can't get behind that idea.

I know the book I was talking about, the guy talks about how it's not that one is superior to the other, it's that they were designed to fulfill different roles. He even encouraged the women to support the men in leading by backing off and giving them opportunities to lead, and advised the men to lead, but to always consider the repercussions and feelings of the female. I mean, I guess it's kind of like representative government- the man represents his lady and whatever family unit they may be a part of. But I still would never be happy that way. I want to be seen as an equal to my husband, and for us to be a united team making decisions together.

I think that dynamic is great for some people, but I would never be happy that way.  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

freelance lover

I know, right. And no matter how people argue for it, I just can't get behind that idea.

I know the book I was talking about, the guy talks about how it's not that one is superior to the other, it's that they were designed to fulfill different roles. He even encouraged the women to support the men in leading by backing off and giving them opportunities to lead, and advised the men to lead, but to always consider the repercussions and feelings of the female. I mean, I guess it's kind of like representative government- the man represents his lady and whatever family unit they may be a part of. But I still would never be happy that way. I want to be seen as an equal to my husband, and for us to be a united team making decisions together.

I think that dynamic is great for some people, but I would never be happy that way.

Yeah, I don't blame you. So many women already feel like they can't function without a man in their life, and here is a thought process that only emphasizes that. Yes, if she found a man who wanted to guide and nurture that could be a different story, but from what I understand, she would want a lover and companion, not a father.

And, to be honest, there are some men in the world that just shouldn't be in charge of another human being. Men who use women, men who abuse women, men who neglect women... But sometimes there are just guys who are just BAD at making big decisions. Some of them have Murphy's Law follow them around like a last name. And those guys shouldn't have a strong, intelligent, awesome woman subservient to him just because some book somewhere said so once.

The roles of men and women have changed in two thousand years. It's silly to hold our modern selves to the standards of a society so radically different than the one we live in.  

[freelance lover]

The Amazing Ryuu

The roles of men and women have changed in two thousand years. It's silly to hold our modern selves to the standards of a society so radically different than the one we live in.

EXACTLY. Especially since women are now educated as much, if not more than men.  

[Matt Pniewski]

[quote="freelance lover" I mean, I guess it's kind of like representative government- the man represents his lady and whatever family unit they may be a part of. But I still would never be happy that way. I want to be seen as an equal to my husband, and for us to be a united team making decisions together.



I want to take this part out and emphasize it. In regards to male headship, the comparison is made to Christ and God. In many Christian Denominations, they are one and the same, or seen as equals. Christ came from heaven, and could be seen as a representative of God in this fashion.

As it is, "All are equal in the eyes of God." There is no sin in falling out of these roles, even if they are divinely prescribed. There is scientific truth in the fact that Men are built stronger, built to be providers. That doesn't mean we always are, because those roles are not necessary as necessary anymore. Providing does not mean going out and hunting a boar with a spear, and protecting doesn't mean stabbing an intruder to death. Both of which can be done by women, but men are the ones who were designed for the work. Now providing means doing a job, and going to the store. Protection means locking the door and using the Taser.  

[[GoGo]]

freelance lover

I agree with you in a sense, about almost everything. While I didn't wait for marriage personally, I waited until I had a partner I felt could be my life partner. With people waiting much much longer to get married, both age-wise as well as the length of the courtship or engagement, it just seems cruel to wait. I don't believe a legal document or ceremony makes you married- I believe the commitment of the couple does. So I advocate waiting for that commitment, even if it's not on paper.

The only thing I really take issue with is women being submissive to men. I don't have an issue with the dynamic you described provided that's what both parties want and are comfortable with. I was reading Boy Meets Girl, which is a book about Christian courtship, and the guy gave a really lengthy argument as to why the man is the leader and the woman submissive. I didn't disagree with him, that's just not the dynamic I prefer in my relationship. I would rather my partner and I be equals and make choices together. But thats just for me, other couples are free to have their own dynamic provided it's healthy and is making everyone happy.

I do agree too that we can "push" our beliefs on others in the form of friendly advice. Like, if my friend is going around sleeping with a ton of guys, I might let her know I'm worried something bad might happen to her. If she's Christian I may even ask her (depending on our relationship) if her actions are keeping her in harmony with God. But I'm not going to judge.

I can understand what you mean about the marriage thing, i dunno just personally with me i'm a person who goes on my word. So the moment i say "I do" Then its baby making time lol.

Naw i do agree yes both the man and women in a marriage are equal, but they do both play different roles. If you think about it as the analogy of adam and eve, Eve was made from Adams rib. In other words she is the support he needed. And without her he would collapse under himself. Does that make sense? lol  

[Matt Pniewski]

[GoGo]

freelance lover

I agree with you in a sense, about almost everything. While I didn't wait for marriage personally, I waited until I had a partner I felt could be my life partner. With people waiting much much longer to get married, both age-wise as well as the length of the courtship or engagement, it just seems cruel to wait. I don't believe a legal document or ceremony makes you married- I believe the commitment of the couple does. So I advocate waiting for that commitment, even if it's not on paper.

The only thing I really take issue with is women being submissive to men. I don't have an issue with the dynamic you described provided that's what both parties want and are comfortable with. I was reading Boy Meets Girl, which is a book about Christian courtship, and the guy gave a really lengthy argument as to why the man is the leader and the woman submissive. I didn't disagree with him, that's just not the dynamic I prefer in my relationship. I would rather my partner and I be equals and make choices together. But thats just for me, other couples are free to have their own dynamic provided it's healthy and is making everyone happy.

I do agree too that we can "push" our beliefs on others in the form of friendly advice. Like, if my friend is going around sleeping with a ton of guys, I might let her know I'm worried something bad might happen to her. If she's Christian I may even ask her (depending on our relationship) if her actions are keeping her in harmony with God. But I'm not going to judge.

I can understand what you mean about the marriage thing, i dunno just personally with me i'm a person who goes on my word. So the moment i say "I do" Then its baby making time lol.

Naw i do agree yes both the man and women in a marriage are equal, but they do both play different roles. If you think about it as the analogy of adam and eve, Eve was made from Adams rib. In other words she is the support he needed. And without her he would collapse under himself. Does that make sense? lol

Being physically made for different purposes does not mean Gender Roles are to be enforced.  

[freelance lover]

[GoGo]

freelance lover

I agree with you in a sense, about almost everything. While I didn't wait for marriage personally, I waited until I had a partner I felt could be my life partner. With people waiting much much longer to get married, both age-wise as well as the length of the courtship or engagement, it just seems cruel to wait. I don't believe a legal document or ceremony makes you married- I believe the commitment of the couple does. So I advocate waiting for that commitment, even if it's not on paper.

The only thing I really take issue with is women being submissive to men. I don't have an issue with the dynamic you described provided that's what both parties want and are comfortable with. I was reading Boy Meets Girl, which is a book about Christian courtship, and the guy gave a really lengthy argument as to why the man is the leader and the woman submissive. I didn't disagree with him, that's just not the dynamic I prefer in my relationship. I would rather my partner and I be equals and make choices together. But thats just for me, other couples are free to have their own dynamic provided it's healthy and is making everyone happy.

I do agree too that we can "push" our beliefs on others in the form of friendly advice. Like, if my friend is going around sleeping with a ton of guys, I might let her know I'm worried something bad might happen to her. If she's Christian I may even ask her (depending on our relationship) if her actions are keeping her in harmony with God. But I'm not going to judge.

I can understand what you mean about the marriage thing, i dunno just personally with me i'm a person who goes on my word. So the moment i say "I do" Then its baby making time lol.

Naw i do agree yes both the man and women in a marriage are equal, but they do both play different roles. If you think about it as the analogy of adam and eve, Eve was made from Adams rib. In other words she is the support he needed. And without her he would collapse under himself. Does that make sense? lol

I think if people choose to wait for marriage, that's very noble and if it works for them, hey. But I feel like if the couple has already made that commitment, I don't see the harm. The rest are just formalities.

And I just can't get behind the different gender roles thing. It's been explained to me 100 times and I understand the concept, but it's not something I can agree with for all couples. I'm fine supporting my partner, but I want him to support me just as much when I decide to take charge or make an important choice in my own life. Ideally we would be able to talk through and make decisions together, but if he wants to make a stupid choice, no way am I going to take that lying down. I would never be happy in that kind of relationship.  

[rmcdra]

[GoGo]

freelance lover

I agree with you in a sense, about almost everything. While I didn't wait for marriage personally, I waited until I had a partner I felt could be my life partner. With people waiting much much longer to get married, both age-wise as well as the length of the courtship or engagement, it just seems cruel to wait. I don't believe a legal document or ceremony makes you married- I believe the commitment of the couple does. So I advocate waiting for that commitment, even if it's not on paper.

The only thing I really take issue with is women being submissive to men. I don't have an issue with the dynamic you described provided that's what both parties want and are comfortable with. I was reading Boy Meets Girl, which is a book about Christian courtship, and the guy gave a really lengthy argument as to why the man is the leader and the woman submissive. I didn't disagree with him, that's just not the dynamic I prefer in my relationship. I would rather my partner and I be equals and make choices together. But thats just for me, other couples are free to have their own dynamic provided it's healthy and is making everyone happy.

I do agree too that we can "push" our beliefs on others in the form of friendly advice. Like, if my friend is going around sleeping with a ton of guys, I might let her know I'm worried something bad might happen to her. If she's Christian I may even ask her (depending on our relationship) if her actions are keeping her in harmony with God. But I'm not going to judge.

I can understand what you mean about the marriage thing, i dunno just personally with me i'm a person who goes on my word. So the moment i say "I do" Then its baby making time lol.

Naw i do agree yes both the man and women in a marriage are equal, but they do both play different roles. If you think about it as the analogy of adam and eve, Eve was made from Adams rib. In other words she is the support he needed. And without her he would collapse under himself. Does that make sense? lol

Gender roles are good yes but they are not fixed to one's sex and they should be adjustable to the situation. Sometimes Dads can do certain gender roles of a Mom better and vice versa.  

[Requiem Arc]

Matt Pniewski

Testicular Diabeetus

freelance lover

Testicular Diabeetus

What's the role and purpose of sex? Just between man and wife? Between two married partners? One night stands are awesome? For pleasure or procreation?
I think it is for reproduction and pleasure. One night stands are stupid and pointless, also careless, I mean that is how people get STD's and other stuff. e.e
I think it should be between a married couple, or a couple that has been together for a long time.
Like for instance me and my fiancée have been together for two years, we do it but we are careful, if I were to get pregnant we would be mature about it, not abort it, we have talked about this.
If you have questions feel free to ask.

So would you consider abortion the immature option? Or is it just something you and your fiancé have discussed as not being an option for you guys?

Abortion is murder.
That baby is a living human, and aborting it is the easy way out of the problem.
Children are a gift from God.
It is not an option for us, not at all.
But I do consider adoption if we cant afford it.
And if we are ready we will keep it.

Two things- A Child is not a "Problem", nor is abortion an easy decision. I have a friend who made that choice, and it hurt her to have to make that choice, and she regrets it every day of her life. It's not easy for people, like a lot of pro life people want to think. It's not a matter of "Well, I'm pregnant, but hell, I can get an abortion." It's NEVER that simple. Pro Life people need to realize that.

And by treating people who consider Abortion as a possibility as potential killers, you aren't helping your point. People don't want to listen to you, because for the most part, the pro life movement is full of short sited, religiously fanatic, irritating jerks who think that an aborted fetus looking gross is a good argument against Abortion.


Of course, I've made this clear- I call myself prochoice only because I do not support legislation on the issue. I rather simply push Planned Parenthood, push contraception, get rid of Abstinence only education, and Abortion will be gone simply without the need for it. You make it illegal, what happens? It still happens, just out of sight, out of mind. It doesn't REALLY help.

While I think your right for some people who are "pro-life" (such a biased term), that is not necessarily true for all of them. I'm sure you didn't mean it that way but I think there is another to the pro-life side.

for example, I'm not exactly "pro-life" in the sense that I think abortions should never be committed, nor am I "pro-choice" in the sense that I think people can choose whether or not to have an abortion. If I had to throw a label on what I am I would call it "condition determined". It breaks down like this, I define a fertilized human embryo as a human life, period. If you don't that's fine but my entire viewpoint is centered on this fact. Therefore, since I consider embryos human lives from a moral standpoint I cannot just accept abortions as ok, nor can I say that I'm content to do nothing about it. again, from a moral standpoint I view not preventing a tragedy when one is able to through conscience choice the same as committing the tragedy itself. Therefore when it comes to abortions the only cases in which I could consider it alright to have one done is if the life of the mother is in danger from giving birth due to some condition and a C-Section is not an option. Outside of these cases I can find no grounds to support the legally approved murder of what I consider to be human beings. I'm not saying its not a terrible choice for the people making, nor that they do not regret it and are scarred by it. I am simply that I can not, for moral reasons, simply say its ok to allow someone to kill an unborn child for whatever various reasons they may choose to do so. I understand many people do not consider embryos lives (and that in many cases this makes it no easier on them) but as stated before this is where my view comes from. I honestly think that if a girl does not want to have a child she should put it up for adoption, I know this isn't a perfect solution, but I consider it much better than the alternative. Furthermore, while I think your right that if we were to make it illegal it would cause many problems from illegal attempts I think that as a society we could limit that if we devote resources to making having the child (and preparing to give it up) as painless a process as possible, if we can intercept women's reasons for having abortions with better reasons to release the child into some kind care system than I think the illegal abortion issue would be drastically reduced. Again this is just my view on things, as I don't really find comfortable footing with either side.

To clarify, rather than make abortions illegal I would suggest a law in which the only cases where clinical abortions are allowed are situations where giving birth to the child will almost certainly kill the mother. Other than that I would suggest the construction of a much more expansive adoption and foster-care system that would alleviate the problems that would cause illegal abortions to take place.