I need your ideas please

[Mnemosyne of Rivendell]

TeaDidikai

You made an inaccurate blanket assertion that suggested that your path was better than mine, or Deo's or Reaguns, or Nuri's... or a dozen of legit traditions because you didn't think about what you were saying.

You have a point. I did make an inaccurate and rash generalization, without thinking. I'm certain that no one else in this guild under any circumstances lowered themselves to perpetrate the same offense.

TeaDidikai

My problem with Eclecticism is the tendency to take all the pretty sparkles and leave behind the rubble in their wake.

Whoops.  

[TeaDidikai]

Mnemosyne of Rivendell

...I'm sorry, did you say that I'm the one coming across as an arrogant prat in this situation? Is that because I use multisyllabic words or because I somehow managed to state my opinion express myself without resorting to insult? I apologize. I shall humble myself.

Regardless, I admit I shouldn't have recommended Eclecticism as the "best way to go," fine. I also think I must have missed the part where you were God and I was an ignorant peon in need of silencing. Was that before or after I *shock and horror* differed from your own revered thought process?

Looks like you beat me to my correction. But yes. To assert your path is more valid than ours because it's what you like is arrogant.

Your sarcasm isn't as witty as I had hoped. People disagree with me all the time. Difference between you and them? They don't make themselves out to be gods. I enjoy a good disagreement. But the assertion that Eclecticism is more valid that other faiths even after I pointed out the pitfalls of the "let's slaughter a sacred tradition so I can drag it through the mud, out of context and piss on it with my position of I know best" spirituality isn't valid, it's an insult for those who actually work hard on their spiritual affairs.

Note I did not accuse you of such. Bravo for being so quick to be oversensitive as to be a wonderful demonstration of the arrogance and total disregard for others that I speak of.

Tell you what? You think your path is better than that which is borrows from? Stop borrowing. Come up with something unique that doesn't harken back to something which loses its context in translation and outside of tradition.  

[Mnemosyne of Rivendell]

And I'm still missing the part where I'm the one making myself out to be a god.  

[TeaDidikai]

Mnemosyne of Rivendell

And I'm still missing the part where I'm the one making myself out to be a god.

Mnemosyne of Rivendell

I first of all don't think you should ask advice of anyone who's not either a close friend or a family member. Choice of belief is far too personal to be left in the hands of people who are basically total strangers.

That being said, I think eclecticism is the best way to go. That way you can suit your path to what you believe now. Sound good? I think so.

Or! You can take the choice that many people take: No religion. You believe what you believe, but you don't have to confine it with a name or a set of rules.

The Bolded part is the first illusion. Don't take anyone's advice, they aren't to be trusted- and then we see you assert that it is okay to take your advice because you're right. Well, are you not a total stranger?

Then I like how you magically remove the meaning of the concept of Eclectic Paganism- Would you be a God of UnWeaving Meanings?

So... the rest of us who offered advice to the OP who asked us a question gave bad advice, because we're total strangers and have nothing to say- because, you know, those decades we've spent in the pagan scene, doing scholarly research, and practicing aren't worth anything compared to her Highness's opinion on Eclectic Paganism.


Silly Mortals we be. rofl  

[Mnemosyne of Rivendell]

She asked for advice so I gave it from both angles. Perhaps I didn't make myself perfectly clear, since I didn't run the full content of my post by you before publishing it; I did not mean to sound as if I were right and the rest of the guild was made up of babbling idiots. What I meant to say was that I wouldn't personally put any religious decisions in the hands of people I wasn't intimately familiar with, but since she seemed keen on advice, she might as well have my opinion, which is what it is, not yours or hers or anyone else's. I believe in a world based on opinions, man, and I also believe answers only fit the person who asked the question.  

[Mnemosyne of Rivendell]

Furthermore, I'm too tired to think coherently. I'll argue with you in the morning if your still pissy at me, but right now, my sheets are far more inviting. Later!  

[TeaDidikai]

Mnemosyne of Rivendell

She asked for advice so I gave it from both angles. Perhaps I didn't make myself perfectly clear, since I didn't run the full content of my post by you before publishing it; I did not mean to sound as if I were right and the rest of the guild was made up of babbling idiots. What I meant to say was that I wouldn't personally put any religious decisions in the hands of people I wasn't intimately familiar with, but since she seemed keen on advice, she might as well have my opinion, which is what it is, not yours or hers or anyone else's. I believe in a world based on opinions, man, and I also believe answers only fit the person who asked the question.

Which means you didn't actually read the part where she wasn't, but merely wondering what other people thought in order for her to gather leads for her personal research?

Your inability to read and provide reasonable arguments is no ones problem but your own.

By the way, Just because I find your assertions inaccurate and you read my posting style as agreesive does not mean I am pissy with you Child. Believe me... Reagun has yet to tell me to calm down and that you aren't worth it. mrgreen  

[Sivirs]

TeaDidikai

By the way, Just because I find your assertions inaccurate and you read my posting style as agreesive does not mean I am pissy with you Child. Believe me... Reagun has yet to tell me to calm down and that you aren't worth it. mrgreen

Do we need a sticky about not reading vocal tone into peoples' text or something? 'Cause, yeah.

This is a disagreement: "I disagree with you."
This is also a disagreement: "You're wrong."
This is even ALSO a disagreement: "You are full of crap."

This may be pissy: "You are full of crap and people like you make me scream."

Or it may not be, because the poster could be exaggerating to make a point about the "type of person" they're speaking to.

Since there is no way to gauge emotions except by adjoining emoticons, which can also be misleading, it's best to just not, because it makes you look silly when you're wrong - which is usually the case.

I'm quite capable of telling someone they're really full of crap and I wish they'd die with a straight face and a calm feeling. I usually go get a snack or play a video game once I'm done, too, and don't give it a second thought. Emotion =/= post content.

The assertion that "Eclecticism is the way to go" comes off as superior and ill-informed. Let's just get that out of the way right now. It does. I don't care how you meant it, this is how it's reading to many of us.

The assumption that Tea and Tsuzuki, talking about the pitfalls and dangers of eclecticism and why it's NOT the best way to go for a beginner, MUST mean YOU SPECIFICALLY suck, comes off as paranoid and insecure. Yes, your statement triggered it, but you are not the only eclectic in the world, either.

The statement that other people aren't to be trusted, followed by your opinion, comes off as hypocritical and, once again, superior.

Didn't mean any of it that way? Fine, clarify it all and apologize for the misunderstanding. But getting defensive over one statement of Tea's (which, while harsh, does apply to a great number of eclectics - maybe even you; we don't know the details of your practice, but maybe that's guilt behind the defensiveness that we aren't aware of) does rather make you out to be the aggressive and arrogant one.

If you'd rather defend a mistake to the post-death than just clarify it, though, people do love a good show.  

[TeaDidikai]

Nope. It applies to her. She claimed to be an Eclectic Wiccan elsewhere in the Guild.

Other than that- spot on.  

[saint dreya]

Mnemosyne of Rivendell

TeaDidikai

You made an inaccurate blanket assertion that suggested that your path was better than mine, or Deo's or Reaguns, or Nuri's... or a dozen of legit traditions because you didn't think about what you were saying.

You have a point. I did make an inaccurate and rash generalization, without thinking. I'm certain that no one else in this guild under any circumstances lowered themselves to perpetrate the same offense.

i have. others have. more will. once Tea/Nuri/Deoridhe/reagun corrects them, generally, i/we/they don't do it again. unless they're fluffies....  

[TheDisreputableDog]

phoenix_shadowwolf

Mnemosyne of Rivendell

TeaDidikai

You made an inaccurate blanket assertion that suggested that your path was better than mine, or Deo's or Reaguns, or Nuri's... or a dozen of legit traditions because you didn't think about what you were saying.

You have a point. I did make an inaccurate and rash generalization, without thinking. I'm certain that no one else in this guild under any circumstances lowered themselves to perpetrate the same offense.

i have. others have. more will. once Tea/Nuri/Deoridhe/reagun corrects them, generally, i/we/they don't do it again. unless they're fluffies....

Ah, you beat me to it. You're not the only one, but just because you're not the only one who has these issues doesn't make it okay to have them.

The "elders," if I may, of this guild have, frankly, earned the right to call bullshit. They've been here a long time, they've seen fluffies come and go, they've seen fluffies evolve into free-thinking, intelligent, mature individuals. They're not gods, they've just done their research, had their gnosis, and kept on. Which is not to say that you should just agree with everything they say, but that you should try not to let personal affronts stand in the way of good sense, good points, and possible enlightenment. One of the qualities of said individual is the interaction between strength of convictions and openness to new ideas. Something you should work on?

Try "I" statements. "I feel ______ when you ________ because ________." It helps keep you calm and think through what the actual problem is.  

[Mnemosyne of Rivendell]

Ok everybody, You have all made excellent points and I thoroughly agree my original post was ill-informed, hastily put together, and inconsiderate. I guarantee you it was not intended to sound the way it did. You're all right to tell me that I over-react, but I suppose it was because Tea's rebuttal was much harsher than those I'm used to.

TeaDidiKai

My problem with Eclecticism is the tendency to take all the pretty sparkles and leave behind the rubble in their wake.

I found this offensive because it's quite obvious to me that EVERY religion has a percentage of people who will warp it to there own advantage until it is hardly recognizable as what it was originally intended to be. I found this statement to be a condemnation of all Eclectics (which I now notice it wasn't), which of course made me feel defensive. Obviously, that's my problem. I assume I will be far more aware than I'd ever like to be when someone's actually out for my blood.


Correction to Original Post

Quote:

I don't think I would actually trust a forum with a question such as yours, but you're not me, so rock on. You obviously have more stability and personal trust than I do.

Eclecticism pretty much describes where you are now, and you're obviously in search of something more substantial. In fact, the more I think of it, I'm probably not the most qualified to answer this question, so I'll hush and leave you in the hands of the more experienced Elders. Good luck!

 

[TeaDidikai]

TheDisreputableDog

The "elders," if I may, of this guild have, frankly, earned the right to call bullshit. They've been here a long time, they've seen fluffies come and go, they've seen fluffies evolve into free-thinking, intelligent, mature individuals. They're not gods, they've just done their research, had their gnosis, and kept on. Which is not to say that you should just agree with everything they say, but that you should try not to let personal affronts stand in the way of good sense, good points, and possible enlightenment. One of the qualities of said individual is the interaction between strength of convictions and openness to new ideas. Something you should work on?

Try "I" statements. "I feel ______ when you ________ because ________." It helps keep you calm and think through what the actual problem is.

Good gods.... elders? ~shudders~ Boy do I feel old.

Mnemosyne>> Not everyone in this guild pulls their punches, and my debates with Tsuzuki, a dear friend, are usually very vigorous. You'll get used to it. For what it's worth, I'm actually on the cute, warm and fuzzy end of the scale compared to some folks around here.  

[TeaDidikai]

Mnemosyne of Rivendell

Eclecticism pretty much describes where you are now, and you're obviously in search of something more substantial. In fact, the more I think of it, I'm probably not the most qualified to answer this question, so I'll hush and leave you in the hands of the more experienced Elders. Good luck!

Actually, Eclecticism is but one take on it.

A lot of her stuff she posted belong within Slavic Recon:
Reincarnation- Present within the folklore and left as an undefined within the standardized theological assertions for most Slavic Pagans.

The power of the human Mind and Emotions- Can be summed up as different magical traditions, including shamanic and witchcraft- both of which are present in Slavic traditions past and present.

Souls- Accepted without a second thought.

An Afterlife- Known as Vyri by Slavic Heathens

Earth as our Mother- There is Mokosh, aka, Moist Mother Earth.

A spiritual connection between humans and nature- which is present within much of the pagan rural traditions including a lot of the Slavic Shamanic work with forests and trees, as well as the cycles present within the farming traditions.

Totem animals- Present. There are usually a tribe/family animal, and an individual animal.

The only reason all of these things are present in an Eclectic path is because the individual opts them in.  

[Deoridhe]

phoenix_shadowwolf

i have. others have. more will. once Tea/Nuri/Deoridhe/reagun corrects them, generally, i/we/they don't do it again. unless they're fluffies....

I'd like to note, just as a general note, Tea/Nuri/Reagun/I also do this to each other. Tea regularly devil advocates me, to my benefit. I can link to a recent time when Reagun called me on something and I had to defend my claims.

No person (I've ever know) ever hits a point where they don't need to be challenged. The best point to reach, as far as I'm concerned, is when being challenged is seen as a chance to clarify and refine, not as an attack against one' legitimancy.

That attitude is the one we try to foster in this guild.