Authors to avoid??

[PhantomPhoenix0]

Nuri

Oh, Buckland (As did Cunnigham) learned the mysteries. He just didn't include them in his seax-wicca.

I think he was a 3rd Degree initiate. If I remember correctly, you need to be a 3rd degree initiate to form your own coven, and Buckland was the one to spread Wicca to the U.S.

Or so he says at least.  

[Sivirs]

Nuri

I'm starting to get wary about the crooked heath. Robin isn't exactly my favorite of people (moreover, he's really just an a**) and his focus is on a family trad of witchcraft, not Wicca (and then only the most strict of ideas for Wicca).

Yeah, that was pretty much my disclaimer posting that link. He seemed a bit extreme and childish, even for my tolerance level for rage, but it did give an idea of why some of the authors on the OP's blacklist are hated once you strip away the cheap shots, since that was the question. wink  

[TeaDidikai]

natas_kitty420

On the website about books to be avoided Sivirs posted, http://www.thecrookedheath.com/bewarenf.htm, Scott Cunningham and Raymond Buckland were there. Ive read books by both of them. They dont scream FLUFF!!! to me. Can anyone explain why they might be on the list? Thanks. Even if Cunningham was an inspiration to Ravenwolf, thats not really a reason to blacklist him, is it?

Buckland is at the heart of what is wrong with the pagan scene and the obsession with Closed Culture.

Cunningham- I don't have a problem with. He's writting watered down modern withcraft for the masses. If he can justify calling it Wicca- more power to him.

Nuri- Got a source for Cunningham's lineage that has been confirmed?  

[maenad nuri]

TeaDidikai

Nuri- Got a source for Cunningham's lineage that has been confirmed?

Not at the moment, but I don't doubt it. People do have change of hearts.  

[-kissME-1]

Starlock

I tend to ignore any sorts of author blacklists around on the net, read everything, and make my own judgements. You cannot fairly assess any author by putting them on some 'don't read this' blacklist, but then I'm of the mind that there is no book in existence not worth looking through at least once. If with these lists, reasons aren't given for why they're there, I wouldn't pay much attention to them. And even if there are reasons, such reviews are always biased to the reviewer; ask yourself who is doing the review, what they probably value, and what perspective they bring to the book. A person concerned with the scholarship of a book is going to rate something differently than someone who is more biased towards how original the spells are.

Several of the authors on the list I'm not familiar with, but Starhawk and the Frost's on the list is surprising. I agree with how Jasta explains why Starhawk is likely on this list; she was among the first to really start shifting how Wicca is defined in the community beyond the confines of covens and there are those who disagree with that. Seems like often times these 'don't read me' author lists are really just someone's personal take on what's 'correct practice' and what isn't rather than what is well written and researched.

I agree with this the only author I've ever read and was actually angry with the book was silver ravenwolf. And yet I still suggest that all people who want to be Wiccan read it because you have to know the good, and the bad.  

[TeaDidikai]

I'm all for "To Avoid" lists.

One, Starlock does have a point- reasons the book or author makes a black list are important.

However, the spread of misinformation (such as Conway's assertion that her books Norse Magic and Celtic Magic are actually the historical magical traditions from the two listed cultures) is not okay.

Historical Revisionism is not okay.

Furthermore- for those of us who can't afford to buy every book we want, nor do our libraries have them- such lists are a valid guide- especially when the review is given in context.  

[-kissME-1]

TeaDidikai

I'm all for "To Avoid" lists.

One, Starlock does have a point- reasons the book or author makes a black list are important.

However, the spread of misinformation (such as Conway's assertion that her books Norse Magic and Celtic Magic are actually the historical magical traditions from the two listed cultures) is not okay.

Historical Revisionism is not okay.

Furthermore- for those of us who can't afford to buy every book we want, nor do our libraries have them- such lists are a valid guide- especially when the review is given in context.

I think that to avoid lists should be read, simply read them with an outsider's point of view. While your reading any book no matter who the author is remember to be thinking is this entire thing a load of crap? What's right and what's wrong here? What do I believe in and how does this author relate his/her topic of choice to my beliefs.

And always always look somthing up elsewhere before you write it down in your BOS  

[Pelta]

sugarrocks

TeaDidikai

I'm all for "To Avoid" lists.

One, Starlock does have a point- reasons the book or author makes a black list are important.

However, the spread of misinformation (such as Conway's assertion that her books Norse Magic and Celtic Magic are actually the historical magical traditions from the two listed cultures) is not okay.

Historical Revisionism is not okay.

Furthermore- for those of us who can't afford to buy every book we want, nor do our libraries have them- such lists are a valid guide- especially when the review is given in context.

I think that to avoid lists should be read, simply read them with an outsider's point of view. While your reading any book no matter who the author is remember to be thinking is this entire thing a load of crap? What's right and what's wrong here? What do I believe in and how does this author relate his/her topic of choice to my beliefs.

And always always look somthing up elsewhere before you write it down in your BOS

That's all well and good if you're an intelligent discerning pagan, but the point of 'to avoid' lists here, in a fluffy rehab centre, is so that people who don't know better yet can see what sort of material constitutes as fluffy and has very little validity so they can steer away from such stuff. There's so much crap out there it's easy to be fooled if you don't know what to look for. It's just a help so they don't go spending their money on total rubbish biggrin  

[Lotus Poem]

Ok maybe not a list of books to "avoid" but to be wary of with reasons why of course. I haven't found one yet that I particuarly liked, most seem militantly against reading some books (not reading a book is a bit of a foreign concept to me wink ) or don't say why they dislike the book just listing the ones they feel are "bad" A decent site with objective reviews and descriptions would be great.  

[Operation Shoestring]

Stilldict on Adler and "drawing down the Moon"  

[Neko_Bast]

The avoid book lists are personal apinions. Someone read the book, didn't like what they read, and then started to tell people not to read them. I acutally started with SilverRaven Wolf. I loved her books and they where what got me into wicca in the first place. I must agree that Teen Wicca is bad though. My sis got it and after reading the intro refused to read it because it was so insulting. I acually flipped though it and couldn't belive that the auther i thougt was so cool wroght such a degreading book. But i would still recomend the others that she wroute. As for Starhock, I own Spirle Dance and really enjoyed it. I also own most of Cunninghams books, which I also like.  

[TeaDidikai]

PhantomPhoenix0

Nuri

Oh, Buckland (As did Cunnigham) learned the mysteries. He just didn't include them in his seax-wicca.

I think he was a 3rd Degree initiate. If I remember correctly, you need to be a 3rd degree initiate to form your own coven, and Buckland was the one to spread Wicca to the U.S.

Or so he says at least.

Yeah... well, Buckland lies. A lot.

Ayanami>> Adler's history has been contested and in many cases disproven. I own a copy, it was an interesting read, but it isn't worth more than five dollars in my opinion, and it's value is in understanding context within some parts of the pagan scene, not in it's scholarship.  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

The avoid book lists are personal apinions. Someone read the book, didn't like what they read, and then started to tell people not to read them. I acutally started with SilverRaven Wolf. I loved her books and they where what got me into wicca in the first place. I must agree that Teen Wicca is bad though. My sis got it and after reading the intro refused to read it because it was so insulting. I acually flipped though it and couldn't belive that the auther i thougt was so cool wroght such a degreading book. But i would still recomend the others that she wroute. As for Starhock, I own Spirle Dance and really enjoyed it. I also own most of Cunninghams books, which I also like.

Except- to people who know what Wicca is really about, All of Silver's books are as insulting as Teen Witch.  

[Neko_Bast]

TeaDidikai

Neko_Bast

The avoid book lists are personal apinions. Someone read the book, didn't like what they read, and then started to tell people not to read them. I acutally started with SilverRaven Wolf. I loved her books and they where what got me into wicca in the first place. I must agree that Teen Wicca is bad though. My sis got it and after reading the intro refused to read it because it was so insulting. I acually flipped though it and couldn't belive that the auther i thougt was so cool wroght such a degreading book. But i would still recomend the others that she wroute. As for Starhock, I own Spirle Dance and really enjoyed it. I also own most of Cunninghams books, which I also like.

Except- to people who know what Wicca is really about, All of Silver's books are as insulting as Teen Witch.

Helllllllllow! i said i started with them. i was new. i didn't know anything and just becasue they dont read right to you dose not mean the don't have something to give. i have been wiccan for 6 years so don't talk to me like i'm a child. they are writen form her pint of view, if yours is so small as to say someone who likes her books dosn't knwo about wicca then you need to read more.  

[TeaDidikai]

Neko_Bast

Helllllllllow! i said i started with them. i was new. i didn't know anything and just becasue they dont read right to you dose not mean the don't have something to give. i have been wiccan for 6 years so don't talk to me like i'm a child. they are writen form her pint of view, if yours is so small as to say someone who likes her books dosn't knwo about wicca then you need to read more.

Except, if Bast is one of your goddesses (as noted in your profile), then you aren't Wiccan.

And this is why many of us take issue with her. Proffering Bastardized Outer Court information as anything other than Eclectic paganism without justification creates the FluffyBunny epidemic.