i need a bit of clarification here. ok. a lot.

[AvalonAuggie]

Recursive Paradox

Etherism specifically deals with resonance and affinity. Like draws like, so if your affinity is a certain type, you will draw certain things towards you and will be more capable of using energy from a given source with a given resonance (or less capable as the case may be.) This affinity, when you "break the mirror" and separate your physical reflection from spiritual reflection (generally this is death, although there are other ways to separate them, usually unpleasant, unethical and unwise to attempt) also determines what sort of places you go during the information exchanges that free moving Essences do and then the place and type of thing you Realign with.

It's all very complex and interesting.

oooh. That reminds me somewhat of Ayurvedic doshas meets elementary particles.

Tea: haha! no fluff after midnight?
In all seriousness though (and to keep from derailing the thread, oops) one of the biggest challenges being a newcomer to paganism is that the most readily available 101-level sources often make it appear that any path, any culture is open to you, and Pagan Means Never Having To Say You're Sorry, and your religion's purpose is to make You feel good and/or personally powerful. When you meet people who make you realize that there's a lot of research required, and not every pantheon is open to you, and gods can be very demanding, and you can marginalize people without even realizing it--that's a lot of privilege to examine, and more work than newcomers have been led to believe was required.
Hence, hiding until we can reasonably open our mouths without immediately inserting our feet. ^_^  

[AvalonAuggie]

Takozu

I think it means the opposite of what some people might think it means, in reguards to 'oh do whatever you want, just don't hurt anybody.'
When I think of it, I think of the common doctrine 'think things through' or 'think before your actions'. I like to think it backs most of my ethical/moral decisions. Think thoroughly before doing something like....well, a terrible example would be, procrastinating on a project.
If I procrastinate, what will happen?
I'll have to do whatever I'm procrastinating on later, but, I'll also...
1, be putting pressure on others that have to help you with the project.
2, stressing the one who assigned the project, ect.
I'm terrible at explaining anything. ;;

Actually, that's a great example. Being responsible for your actions in this way, whether practical or magical, would require that you give due thought to what you want to accomplish by your actions, and the collateral damage your actions might cause. Personal responsibility is one of the most important virtues to hold when you're exploring psychic and Otherworld practices.

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Perhaps, and I am ready and willing to admit that that may very well be the reason.
I'm not upset, I'm really just going with the tide here, I'm letting the more educated people tell me what's going on, I'm a very passive person. xD
I think (and this may be me subconsciously defending my beliefs, I don't know) it may be because when it comes to going to covens or meets, I'm not a very social person. I'm not a very religious person in general, and I've come here to change that because it offers the vague anonymous-ness of the internet. While I'm very interested in Wicca, I'm not ready to explore it with my beliefs just yet. I think it may be because for a long time, I've really been a very fluffy bunny, just saying I was Wiccan because I believed in the Wiccan's Horned God and Goddess. But, I wanted to delve deeper and see whether or not I could really call myself a Wiccan, I don't want to offend anyone, yet, I do want a mentor to see if I'm ready or not to change any of my beliefs to perhaps disregard my distaste for organized religion and visit a coven for the experience, and to see if it's right for me. If that makes any sense at all..;;

so much of where you're coming from is familiar to me. wow. But you're understandably skeptical of the authority in the Christian power structure, and there's nothing wrong with questioning that. Bear in mind, though, that in some Pagan faiths that same kind of authority is going to come not from other people, but from the gods, and they're going to be the ones directing you on how to practice and what-have-you. Authority is not easily escaped in the world.

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I believe they come from one's own inner energy, and that if you embrace it peacefully, you can use it in these different ways. I believe there is a sixth sense, but, not the played up movie version. Perhaps in a way that you pick up your phone to see if you have a text message, and then, a few seconds later, you actually do receive one. If that makes any sense either. ;;;

I'm going to paraphrase grossly here, but in Joyce and River Higginbotham's book Paganism: An Introduction to Earth-Centered Religions, they discuss a model of consciousness based on an iceberg, wherein on the surface, representing physical reality, people appear as the tips of separate icebergs, but below the surface in the sort of Jungian collective unconscious by way of quantum theory, individuals are actually connected on a fundamental level, and tapping into that unconscious connection allows you to receive knowledge. Is that similar to what you're thinking of?
ETA: Chapter 6, Magick, p 172 in my second printing copy, 2002.  

[TeaDidikai]

Takozu

It kind of makes sense, not so much.
I was thinking that this would tie into the idea of karma that I believe in, which I guess now, isn't what I thought it was.
...
Wow, ok. xD;
Oh, alright. Well, thank you...

Okay, so let's just recap the whole Karma and Reincarnation thing:

You believe in The Ethic of Reciprocity, and that there is a spiritual tally that determines status within incarnation?

Is your soul yours and whole? Or does it blend into the cosmos and draw back without some of what was in the previous incarnation, and some that wasn't there before?

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I think it means the opposite of what some people might think it means, in reguards to 'oh do whatever you want, just don't hurt anybody.'
When I think of it, I think of the common doctrine 'think things through' or 'think before your actions'. I like to think it backs most of my ethical/moral decisions. Think thoroughly before doing something like....well, a terrible example would be, procrastinating on a project.
If I procrastinate, what will happen?
I'll have to do whatever I'm procrastinating on later, but, I'll also...
1, be putting pressure on others that have to help you with the project.
2, stressing the one who assigned the project, ect.
I'm terrible at explaining anything. ;;

Congrats. You have partially restored my faith in humanity.
That has to be the best answer I have heard from someone new to paganism EVAR.

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Err, I don't think I was being specific enough, lemme try again.
I mean in a way that religion empowers someone to tell you whether or not you're a good person or not according to the deity/God that you believe in. I'll elaborate a little more below.

Sounds good.

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I did edit, and say 'in my experience' just to clarify that I haven't looked much past the 'contradiction' to see if there was a belief that defended it.
An example (albeit another terrible one.) would be a general Catholic confession booth. You go in, you confess to the priest/Father your 'sins' and (i'm assuming here,) he forgives you, and blesses you. Maybe even sometimes gives you advice (I like this idea, giving advice.) But, this confuses me, seeing as if everyone came into the confession booth and confessed, they'd all be forgiven and everyone would go to the afterlife/their Heaven, and this defeats the purpose of having a 'Hell'. I use these terms lightly as I'm not (and I'll admit) educated on the many more politically correct/non-offensive terms.

Okay. Hell, and the can of worms that goes with it, is for folks who are unrepentant sinners.

Catholic Priests act on behalf of their god, and in accordance with scripture (I can provide chapter and verse if you would like) as aids to help humanity deal with it's struggle.

For the sacrament of Reconciliation to be valid, sincere remorse has to be present, as does a desire to atone (fix what was broken with the sin) and do better in the future.

Since their god is a forgiving loving god (again, chapters and verses available upon request) this is within his nature.

However, there are individuals who, through their own will, do not wish to atone, are not sincere in their remorse or have no desire to strive not to sin again.

Those folks are the ones who go to Hell- again, with all the complexities that entails.

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Perhaps, and I am ready and willing to admit that that may very well be the reason.
I'm not upset, I'm really just going with the tide here, I'm letting the more educated people tell me what's going on, I'm a very passive person. xD
I think (and this may be me subconsciously defending my beliefs, I don't know) it may be because when it comes to going to covens or meets, I'm not a very social person. I'm not a very religious person in general, and I've come here to change that because it offers the vague anonymous-ness of the internet. While I'm very interested in Wicca, I'm not ready to explore it with my beliefs just yet. I think it may be because for a long time, I've really been a very fluffy bunny, just saying I was Wiccan because I believed in the Wiccan's Horned God and Goddess. But, I wanted to delve deeper and see whether or not I could really call myself a Wiccan, I don't want to offend anyone, yet, I do want a mentor to see if I'm ready or not to change any of my beliefs to perhaps disregard my distaste for organized religion and visit a coven for the experience, and to see if it's right for me. If that makes any sense at all..;;

Makes a lot of sense.

And I think the universe is going to implode. You've managed to impress me.

Tea's personal opinion and advice in regards to the whole Wicca thing- don't use the title until you have either worked with a lineaged coven, or have done a bunch of research and can use authoritative sources to defend your position personally.
If nothing else, it will save you a bunch of time when talking to other folks on Gaia.

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I think it's called animism.

I saw the edit.

There are a MEGACRAPTON of animists around here.

Now, Animism ascribes a soul/spiritual being to things. Often this is compounded with the ability to remove that soul from the material world.

Does this still fit?

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I believe they come from one's own inner energy, and that if you embrace it peacefully, you can use it in these different ways. I believe there is a sixth sense, but, not the played up movie version. Perhaps in a way that you pick up your phone to see if you have a text message, and then, a few seconds later, you actually do receive one. If that makes any sense either. ;;;

It makes sense, but it doesn't comment on the mechanics. Which is fine. That part I was asking merely out of personal curiosity.  

[AvalonAuggie]

Takozu

AvalonAuggie

Okay, so your belief includes complementary male and female deities. Are they celestial? earth-based? Do you believe that all goddesses are aspects of one supreme Goddess, or do you believe deities are discrete?

They are celestial.
I'm not sure on the next one, could you elaborate on discrete?

Basically this is the difference between what's called "soft" and "hard" polytheism. (or is it panentheism? damn all these theisms! too many to remember!)
One belief holds that all gods are aspects are of the same god, like...Herne and Pan being aspects of the same God. Hard Polytheism holds that Herne and Pan are two different entities. Is the nurturing, domestic Hestia just one face of the Goddess who is also the destructive Kali? or are they they two entirely different goddesses?

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Edit: Tea already talked about orthodoxy and orthopraxy. my bad!

what are these/what does it mean?

Orthodoxy would be "right belief", or a religion wherein your beliefs (like Salvation through Christ being necessary to get into heaven) are the requirement.
Orthopraxy is "right practice." Orthopraxic religions require that you follow the correct observances, rites, ethics, etc in order to be a member.  

[TeaDidikai]

Takozu

They are celestial.
I'm not sure on the next one, could you elaborate on discrete?

Not to put words in Auggie's mouth, but I think we're rooting around to understand if your a Hard Polytheist or a Soft Polytheist.

Are the gods specific individuals, in the same way that you aren't me, Freya isn't Aphrodite. Or is there basically one goddess who is running around with a bunch of different costumes playing "how fast can I change clothes in this phone booth" while running between the peoples of the world and introducing herself by different names?

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honestly, i think your post helped me understand a little more than hers did. xDD;;
i mean this in the nicest way possible.

cry

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what are these/what does it mean?

Orthodoxy, right belief. Orthopraxy- right practice.

Basically, one says that to be part of the religion, you have to believe X, Y and Z.

The other says "Eh, we don't really care what you think about X, Y and Z. We just want to make sure you're facing the right way and following the practices correctly so you get the whole shared experience thing. The rest will sort itself out."

Most of Christendom is an Orthodoxy. Believe in Yeshua's teachings, and these points of faith.

Wica is Orthopraxy. Face this way, move around the circle that way etc.  

[TeaDidikai]

AvalonAuggie

or is it panentheism? damn all these theisms! too many to remember!

Polytheism, though some forms of Polytheism are really Anthropomorphic Personifications.

I know Terry Pratchett is old enough to be my father... but I still find him hot.  

[AvalonAuggie]

So Tea and I are basically hanging around and saying the exact same thing because you're asking yourself some Really Good Questions and winning Cool Points. not that anyone is keeping score. I am sleep-deprived and not making sense.

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Now, Animism ascribes a soul/spiritual being to things. Often this is compounded with the ability to remove that soul from the material world.

Tea, were you talking about a temporary removal or a permanent one? XD  

[TeaDidikai]

AvalonAuggie

not that anyone is keeping score. I am sleep-deprived and not making sense.

We weren't? ~hides her notebook~

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Tea, were you talking about a temporary removal or a permanent one? XD

Both.  

[AvalonAuggie]

Takozu

I would have to say Soft then, only because I also share the belief that another shouldn't be punished for believing in a different deity other than one own's deemed 'right' deity.

Bear in mind, it's not necessarily a matter of believing in the deity or not. A hard polytheist could believe in deities in multiple pantheons but only worship some. Or one.

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I like the Orthpraxy idea a LOT.
I mean, a lot a lot.
I think it's a little harder for me to understand Wicca only because I've been raised in an Orthodox environment?

Orthopraxy also encompasses purity laws, like keeping kosher in Judaism, or things or people being mahrime (is this the right spelling, Tea?), spiritually unclean. So orthopraxy isn't necessarily easier.  

[TeaDidikai]

Takozu

Right. I'm not sure about the spiritual tally though, that makes it sound like I want to be a good person to be reincarnated as something equally as good. Or it could be a subconscious thing, once again.

Can't say I see anything wrong with not wanting the short end of the stick myself.

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Does the latter literally symbolize what people call 'old souls'?

Could be. It's not part of my tradition, so I don't pretend to have a point of reference other then I have a habit of looking at people funny when they tell me I'm an old soul.

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this makes me feel awesome.

Shush! You'll ruin my reputation!

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That makes sense to me. Still, then, I'd rather trust the God to forgive me...

You are. The Priests do not grant YHVH's grace in the sense that it is their power extending it. They facilitate- and let's face it, they act as an objective sounding board. People's emotions can mess with them and interfere with Reconciliation.

Have you ever done something wrong, and knew it was, but then talked yourself into thinking it wasn't as bad as someone was making it out to be?

The priest's vocation, their job, is to help people move past that trap.

Now...

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rather than telling someone who believes he's more connected than I am.

This isn't a principle amongst the clergy, at least, not in the way I think you're thinking.

I don't know about you, but I have to work for a living. I bust my a** to bring home a paycheck, cook dinner, take care of my home, my hubby etc.

The Catholic Clergy do some of this, but they are also supported by the community in order to study and help others lead spiritually fulfilling lives. If you're called to that lifestyle, awesome. But most of us want other things for ourselves. There are spiritual positions amongst the laity that are as important as being a priest- but it's a job, just like any other. You do your best. You specialize your talents.

That doesn't make them better people than the laity- hell, Priests go to Confession too. Also, you can confess to laity in a pinch. But the Priests are trained in administering the sacrament.

Yeah- I can call my friend Rick to come and look under the hood of my car if I'm in a jam, but I'd rather take it to a professional mechanic.

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this also makes me feel awesome.

Now I'm going to have to egg you or something just so people don't get the wrong idea.

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that sounds like the best idea.
haha, that's the plan. and is why i am here. xDD

Spiff.

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What do you mean exactly by the ability to remove that soul from the material world?

For temporary situations- something akin to astral projection. In the long term? Death and existence elsewhere prior to reincarnation- whatever form that takes.

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Ohhhhh the mechanics, like how it works.
I wouldn't know how to explain it, really...

That's fine. Like I said, I was just curious.