Strange experience?

[Orchidsandfractals]

TeaDidikai- How would you suggest I confirm that she is a goddess then? I feel she is one, and based on what I have studied of religion, there is no further proof beyond that you feel overcome with the "power" of her. For the record, I tried praying last night(Lit a candle,and tried to think of the light that was around her), and the name that popped into my head was Athena(A bit VERY strangely pronounced, and I know people from Northern Greece, and it was not a Greek accent to the best of my knowledge.). I know that that is likely not her real name, as well, and well, Athena is not a hawk Goddess, though I suppose owls would make sense, but what I saw looked like a hawk.

It's possible it was an eagle, or a very odd looking owl. I cannot call myself an atheist after the dream I had, so I do believe she is a goddess. I see no reason why I would delude myself into thinking I saw a goddess when I did not want to see one, and am dealing with shock and some degree of stress about it.

In regards to why I'd like to know the name is that there are websites out there that list Goddesses and such, and I'd rather not waste my time looking up the name of her for hours till I stumble across a small paragraph on one website that says I'm unclean. If you cannot say the name of her due to your religion, then that is fine. I would rather know the name of your religion so I do not accidentally follow it. If it is not your religion, and you may tell me, I would rather know so that I do not waste time researching it and then discovering that I may not follow it.

I don't know everything about the discrimination against the Rroma people in the USA, though to the best of my knowledge, it is not common(Though, it could simply be not common due to the small numbers of Rroma.), and I have never seen an example of it(And I do know a person who considers herself to be Rroma.), other than people using the gword, but in a non demeaning manner as it is not intended as an insult, but as an accurate cultural description, which may be made in ignorance according to you.

Thus, I can say it does not exist to the best of my knowledge. If you believe it does exist, and can link me to an example of an event within the past 100 or so years in the US related to it(Or if you care to, explain a personal discrimination event toward the Rroma culture), I will retract that statement fully, and I am sorry in advance for offending you should such an event exist.

Compared to discrimination against Jews, Blacks, GLBT, heck, even Baptists(who have been called heathens by an... interesting person who I went to high school with...), I would presume that it is a much lower rate. I'm not speaking of Europe or the UK, or the rest of the world. I do know discrimination against the Rroma exists in the UK, and much of Europe. That's not good. I know the Rroma people were hurt by the Holocaust, and many were killed, and there was not the widespread support in Europe after ww2. I am not aware of any such events in the US.

If you do not consider my peer to be Rroma, it is your opinion, and as a Rroma, I will regard your opinion as that of someone who claims to be part of the Rroma culture as well, and if you call yourself such, as equally valid as her opinion of her culture if I knew you in person.However, if you say it requires talking to other people of her culture, her little brother generally calls himself American.

I don't question my peer's usage of the term as she considers herself such,and I do know her in person. I don't talk to her often, but when we did, I never knew her to lie. It's possible her great grandmother lied, though I do doubt that. I consider her usage of the term valid as she considers herself to be a part of the culture. I am not a part of the Rroma culture, so I will take my peer's word over a random internet source.

If you would like to link me to a website about the Rroma that you consider to be legitimate, I will take it into consideration, and I will probably ask my peer the next time I see her if she considers it an appropriate source, or if there is what is generally considered to be a "universal" group about such matters(Just as a Rabbi is considered a "legit" source for info about the Jewish people, or a newspaper is considered an acceptable source for news.), that is easily verified by 3 other sources(Such as CNN, published books, or some way to clarify that it is an accurate source. Basically, no blogs or crazy out there websites. Reasonable sources such as those used for school), I will consider your word to be more valid than that of my peer in regards to this matter and I will say that my friend is ignorant of her culture, or what she considers to be her culture. As I do not know legitimate Rroma sources for an explanation of the culture(Though, you may link some, and I will consider them.), I will listen to a peer I know IRL, who considers herself a part of the culture.

Gaia in it of itself, and the people on here, is not an acceptable source IMO for information to be 100% truthful. Just look at most of the forums here... LD, LI, GD, Chatterbox. Need I list more? XD

One is born Jewish, faith and culturally. You can break the covenant if you like, it's a sin, but you still remain religiously as well as culturally Jewish. You're just a very bad Jew. It's kinda complicated. You can be a Jewish atheist, you're just not being a good Jew. You can't change your religion of being Jewish once you're born into a Jewish family. My ancestors are rather culturally Scottish in the sense that kilt wearing only stopped once male children of legitimate marriages stopped being born(Really, only the first born child of a male chieftain can wear a kilt. Now, who the chieftain is in my clan gets VERY tricky. A lot of name changes, and depending on which law we're looking at, it's whoever owns the "castle", which is to say a tract of land in a small town. Currently, it's some random oil tycoon that only bought it from the British government to have permission for the oil rights on the North Sea. By other standards, it's some random guy in Canada. By some others, it gets even trickier since I am female and my mother married a non "noble" as did most of my ancestors, which messes with clan laws depending on which set we're looking at, as is the case with all the leaders of my clan, and most other clans for that matter.), and with my great grandmother, the only member of my family who was eligible to wear a kilt(My father's side was more peasants.), was her father.

I have been raised with a heavy Scottish perspective. My grandfather refused to fight in ww2 because of the fact the English were on the American's side, and he couldn't in good feelings fight with people who have hurt his family for centuries. My family has researched our ancestry heavily. We left Scotland under death warrants, not out of choice, so we do remain Scottish. I am the first generation in my family to speak only English well. My mother can speak broken Scots, and my grandmother and grandfather can speak Scots fluently, though it is their 2nd language. I'd consider that to be a sign we retained our culture.

I do agree with you that if someone knows nothing about their culture, that they are not part of it. It is possible my Rroma friend knows nothing about her culture, just as it is possible you know nothing about your culture. Depending on who is doing the visa applications that day, I may not ever be able to get a visa to visit Scotland. We are not nationally Scottish(My citizenship is that of an American citizen.), but in terms of culture, we are Scottish Jews who live in America and have for several hundred years.

I use the term Scottish to describe the general nation, if I wanted to get specific, I could name tribes and such. The word semetic is used in tracing histories to refer to Middle Eastern people, as is true of language studies. I know wikipedia is not a reliable source, but http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic has a decent definition of it. http://foundationstone.com.au/FoundationStone.html?./HtmlSupport/WebPage/semiticGenetics.html explains how Jewish people are related to other Middle Eastern people. Most Jewish people are very closely related to Middle Eastern people. I have very little Middle Eastern blood in my MtDNA, Russian, Native American with a bit of Algerian appeared to be what it was, which, none were very close.

That basically means Northern Scottish person according to the genetics prof I had the test done with. Or Basque. Sometimes Sumi. Basically, it just means non Celtic European who doesn't quite match up with the ready made models, and who has too small of a population to do objective genetic studies of. However, given that my family did live in Scotland for many many years, it is debatable if we are Celtic in culture or not. It is most likely an ancestor of mine converted to Judaism in the distant past, and she had children, who were Jewish, as opposed to my having much Middle Eastern blood at all. Or, the Middle Eastern blood in me may be so back as to not show up clearly, as the test I had done was only valid for 1000 or so years, which is not terribly long in the world of genetics. I have so little Middle Eastern blood in me, if any, that I would not qualify as a Semitic person under a scientific definition.

I qualify as a Jew as my mother is Jewish, as her mother is Jewish and so forth, and I have many other Jewish relatives. In regards to being culturally Jewish, some people consider that it is needed for someone to go to Temple(church effectivly), at least on the high holidays to catch up on gossip to remain culturally Jewish. According to EVERY rabbi I've talked with, I'm Jewish due to having had a Jewish ancestor in the past, and going to Temple is required to be a good Jew, but it's quite easy to be a bad Jew and not go to temple, and some Jewish people think going to a non Jerusleum temple is bad, as it's sacrilege.

Getile fish is a type of food that is considered Jewish. Many non Jewish people are shocked to discover that in my family's traditions of being Jewish, Chanukah isn't a holiday about gift giving like Christmas, but prayer, and that we eat haggis and oatmeal as opposed to gelite fish for celebration. The days of our holidays were quite off for several centuries though, till we finally started going to Temple and meeting with current rabbis again. Even some ignorant Jewish people have wondered how I'm Jewish if I don't do those things. I can't not be Jewish, I can be a sinning Jew who calls myself a pagan.

Judaism is a tricky religion in that respect. It's not a matter of breaking Jewish laws for the Lulz, but following what I feel is the correct path for me, regardless of what laws of a religion I am born into and cannot leave, but choose not to follow. Judaism does not allow anyone but converts(which... I'm not 100% sure on that. I know converts aren't "full" Jews, but their children are.) to leave. Once a Jew, always a Jew,but a sinning Jew if one decides to leave is the best way to sum it up.

I'm reasonably certain my ancestor wasn't racist as his son fought for the side of the North in the Civil War. He certainly would not have been considered racist for his era. His son was very much not racist, as my great grandmother knew him, and she was encouraged to room with a student of African Ancestry when she was in high school, which meant sleeping in a maid's closet.

Now, that is his son, but I find it rather doubtful that if a father was extremely racist for the era he lived in, that his son would have been so substantially less so. It's possible, but he didn't write of the Eastern Europeans negatively(Compared to general writings of this era. He did not seem to promote imperialism in his writings, and did apparently object to the idea of the white man's burden in regards to Scotland, and the rest of the world as well(Scottish people were considered inferior to WASPs.)),and in fact spoke very highly of a nobleman he stayed with. My grandmother keeps photocopies of the journals with her(they are with VERY distant Mormon relatives), and she is not a racist at all. She herself fought strongly for gay rights in the 1950s, despite being straight herself.

She almost got lynched once upon being mistaken for a "black" woman when she had a bit of a tan on her honeymoon(late 1930s), and felt that lynching was very very wrong, which, many people in the South of the USA at that time VERY much disagreed with her, and even in the North, people were routinely shocked she roomed in college with a woman of African Ancestry, and found her to be a kind nice person, who she remained in contact with. She has never said anything that I would consider to be racist.

ETA broke up wall of text.  

[Orchidsandfractals]

Aino Ailill

TeaDidikai

I sometimes wonder how many of them actually come from the area around the Caucasus Mountains myself.

Is that the only thing that determines whether one is a Caucasion? One may have a Caucasoid skull structure without being of the Caucasus mountains. It would seem to me that, like to the bone structure, the term has been expanded to describe a group of people beyond the narrow origins.

Caucasian also refers to hair type, which I find to be highly amusing. Apparently white people can't have curly hair. It also refers to facial structure. Apparently, white people also don't have hooked noses. XD It also implies that Asian people don't have straight hair, and that they have hooked noses. The term was made up by some racist guy, if I recall right, and he honestly thought the people that lived in the Caucasus mountains were the superior race. However, many people of European ancestry use the term to describe themselves.

It's used to describe people of European ancestry. It's not a terribly accurate term at all, but neither is the word white. I am one of the few Europeans I know that can honestly describe their skin as white, and even then, it's more of an off white/pink.  

[Orchidsandfractals]

Kuroiban

Firstly, fair enough.

Secondly, I know what it means. My statement is that is this; Is it more likely that someone is using a term that is recognized by a vast majority of the people of that culture as pejorative and views the more correct name given to that culture as pejorative instead, or is it more likely they got something wrong along the lines. Between the two the later appears more simple to me, though your mileage may vary.

Thirdly....here is the thing about this guild. We see a lot, and I do mean a lot of cultural rape and abuse, blatant ignorance, and stubborn adherence to what is logically and systematically refuted. Seeing as that is what this guild is largely here to combat, a lot of us tend to jump upon it with due diligence.

Which isn't to say that I, or anyone else for that matter, is. What I will say is that you are not the first person to come along here and make assertions about the G~ word, having done so to a large amount of people who done a considerable amount of research on the term, one of whom is Roma themselves.

You see, when we see a misconception we jump on and attempt to fix that first. We're not sure where and when that misconception could come up again and we'd rather have the foundation secure as opposed to the alternative. That all having been said, realize that while not everything may appear to be directed towards your original line of questioning, we're just doing the job that the guild is out there to do.

Now, as to your original question; I know about as much of specifics of Gods and Goddesses in general as I do about nuclear fission. That being said I can give you some broad suggestions that may put you in the correct direction.

First off, when you have these visions and dreams, write down as much detail as you can as quickly as you can. This will not only aid in research on the topic but will allow you to check for consistency. Record ANYTHING that you notice. Colors, smells, sensations. These will help in the next step

Second, use what you get from the records to do research on the topic at hand. Research hawks. Research Goddesses. Research Hawk Goddesses. Research the areas around where Hawks live, and what cultures venerated them, and how. Did you smell something like lavender, jasmine, or strawberries? Research those fruits and find out what cultures used those plants, scents, and fruits and why they did. Be exhaustive, because you have no idea where useful information may turn up.

Thirdly, if possible, meditate on the circumstances of your visions and dreams to perhaps glean more details. Hope that meager advice helped. sweatdrop

Edit: fixing quotation mistake sweatdrop sweatdrop

Thank you for your advice on how to look. I will try to remember details. I normally don't smell much of anything, IRL, or in dreams, due to a stuffed up nose, and don't know what many things smell like as a result, but images is a good idea to look for. I have been working on meditating, and it was helpful. It did give me a name, but a name that I can almost be certain is inaccurate. Athena is not a hawk Goddess, and to the best of my knowledge and a google, the Greeks did not have a hawk goddess. So, I'm trying to figure out what sort of birds looked like hawks.

Again, my peer considers the g word to be the most accurate word in regards to her culture. It's not she has never heard of the word Rroma before, but a personal preference. I would like to see several sources that are generally accepted as accurate Rroma sources that point to the idea that the g word is considered to be VERY negative by most Rroma. I would personally say the g word in American culture is not a negative word, unlike the n word, in terms of how it is most commonly used, so it seems more logical for a Rroma person to use the g word to describe themselves than a "black" person to use the n word to describe themselves, but people do the latter with some frequency. I consider my peer to be an accurate source of info about the Rroma culture as she herself IDs as part of it, and I consider her to be a more accurate source than random Gaia members. However, if random Gaia members can back up their claims with info from a group they consider to be accurate, and that is generally considered to be accurate, and that my peer IRL verifies(Or multiple other sources that I would consider to be accurate), I will admit my peer is wrong. That's the case with my mother referring to herself as Wiccan. Looking up basic facts about Wicca, and having a friend of mine who is neopagan tell me my mother is wrong, that overruled the word of my mother in regards to her faith.  

[Aino Ailill]

Wall of Text! eek Please, will you break it down?

Quote:

I'm reasonably certain my ancestor wasn't racist as his son fought for the side of the North in the Civil War.

...and that speaks to the potential racism of your ancestor, how?  

[Orchidsandfractals]

Aino Ailill

Wall of Text! eek Please, will you break it down?

Quote:

I'm reasonably certain my ancestor wasn't racist as his son fought for the side of the North in the Civil War.

...and that speaks to the potential racism of your ancestor, how?

Finished. I would consider my ancestor to not be racist for his era. A racist in his time would have though that African people are slaves and not worthy of personhood. He did not own slaves, either.  

[Aino Ailill]

Orchidsandfractals

Aino Ailill

Wall of Text! eek Please, will you break it down?

Quote:

I'm reasonably certain my ancestor wasn't racist as his son fought for the side of the North in the Civil War.

...and that speaks to the potential racism of your ancestor, how?

Finished. I would consider my ancestor to not be racist for his era. A racist in his time would have though that African people are slaves and not worthy of personhood. He did not own slaves, either.

How is racism dependent upon the era?  

[Aino Ailill]

Thank you!

Orchidsandfractals

If you do not consider my peer to be Rroma, it is your opinion, and as a Rroma, I will regard your opinion as that of someone who claims to be part of the Rroma culture as well, and if you call yourself such, as equally valid as her opinion of her culture if I knew you in person.However, if you say it requires talking to other people of her culture, her little brother generally calls himself American.

American is a nationality. That doesn't really speak to being of the Rroma culture.

Quote:

I don't question my peer's usage of the term as she considers herself such,and I do know her in person. I don't talk to her often, but when we did, I never knew her to lie. It's possible her great grandmother lied, though I do doubt that. I consider her usage of the term valid as she considers herself to be a part of the culture. I am not a part of the Rroma culture, so I will take my peer's word over a random internet source.

How does that [bolded] work? How does one claiming to be a part of something lend credence to their words?

Quote:

If you would like to link me to a website about the Rroma that you consider to be legitimate, I will take it into consideration, and I will probably ask my peer the next time I see her if she considers it an appropriate source, or if there is what is generally considered to be a "universal" group about such matters(Just as a Rabbi is considered a "legit" source for info about the Jewish people, or a newspaper is considered an acceptable source for news.), that is easily verified by 3 other sources(Such as CNN, published books, or some way to clarify that it is an accurate source. Basically, no blogs or crazy out there websites. Reasonable sources such as those used for school), I will consider your word to be more valid than that of my peer in regards to this matter and I will say that my friend is ignorant of her culture, or what she considers to be her culture. As I do not know legitimate Rroma sources for an explanation of the culture(Though, you may link some, and I will consider them.), I will listen to a peer I know IRL, who considers herself a part of the culture.

@ Tea - I's be interested in reading any websites you link on the subject. 3nodding

Quote:

Gaia in it of itself, and the people on here, is not an acceptable source IMO for information to be 100% truthful. Just look at most of the forums here... LD, LI, GD, Chatterbox. Need I list more? XD

Well...yes. The presence of those forums, in and of themselves, do not explain why something posted on Gaia cannot be considered valid by itself.

Quote:

One is born Jewish, faith and culturally. You can break the covenant if you like, it's a sin, but you still remain religiously as well as culturally Jewish. You're just a very bad Jew. It's kinda complicated. You can be a Jewish atheist, you're just not being a good Jew. You can't change your religion of being Jewish once you're born into a Jewish family. My ancestors are rather culturally Scottish in the sense that kilt wearing only stopped once male children of legitimate marriages stopped being born(Really, only the first born child of a male chieftain can wear a kilt. Now, who the chieftain is in my clan gets VERY tricky. A lot of name changes, and depending on which law we're looking at, it's whoever owns the "castle", which is to say a tract of land in a small town. Currently, it's some random oil tycoon that only bought it from the British government to have permission for the oil rights on the North Sea. By other standards, it's some random guy in Canada. By some others, it gets even trickier since I am female and my mother married a non "noble" as did most of my ancestors, which messes with clan laws depending on which set we're looking at, as is the case with all the leaders of my clan, and most other clans for that matter.), and with my great grandmother, the only member of my family who was eligible to wear a kilt(My father's side was more peasants.), was her father.

That presumes the validity of the religion. Should the religion not be valid, then by what authority does one call another a Jew, in religion?

In regard to culture, that is not passed, necessarily, through lineage. One may be born of a Jewish mother, but raised in a Gentile tradition. If this is the case, then they are considered of the Chosen People, certainly, but they are not a part of the culture. To be a part of a culture, one must share a great number of things.

OED Draft Revised, Sept 2009

culture, n.

7. a. Chiefly as a count noun. The distinctive ideas, customs, social behaviour, products, or way of life of a particular society, people, or period. Hence: a society or group characterized by such customs, etc.

Quote:

Judaism is a tricky religion in that respect. It's not a matter of breaking Jewish laws for the Lulz, but following what I feel is the correct path for me, regardless of what laws of a religion I am born into and cannot leave, but choose not to follow. Judaism does not allow anyone but converts(which... I'm not 100% sure on that. I know converts aren't "full" Jews, but their children are.) to leave. Once a Jew, always a Jew,but a sinning Jew if one decides to leave is the best way to sum it up.

Converts are not full Jews? Will you expound on this? I was under the impression that, though the conversion process is lengthy, once one managed to get through it, they were as Jewish as a person born of a Jewish mother.  

[Kuroiban]

Orchidsandfractals

Again, my peer considers the g word to be the most accurate word in regards to her culture. It's not she has never heard of the word Rroma before, but a personal preference. I would like to see several sources that are generally accepted as accurate Rroma sources that point to the idea that the g word is considered to be VERY negative by most Rroma. I would personally say the g word in American culture is not a negative word, unlike the n word, in terms of how it is most commonly used, so it seems more logical for a Rroma person to use the g word to describe themselves than a "black" person to use the n word to describe themselves, but people do the latter with some frequency. I consider my peer to be an accurate source of info about the Rroma culture as she herself IDs as part of it, and I consider her to be a more accurate source than random Gaia members. However, if random Gaia members can back up their claims with info from a group they consider to be accurate, and that is generally considered to be accurate, and that my peer IRL verifies(Or multiple other sources that I would consider to be accurate), I will admit my peer is wrong. That's the case with my mother referring to herself as Wiccan. Looking up basic facts about Wicca, and having a friend of mine who is neopagan tell me my mother is wrong, that overruled the word of my mother in regards to her faith.

I can tell my IRL friends I'm a bat. I could tell my on-line friends the same things just as easily. This does not make me a bat.

I'm not being a d**k; I'm merely establishing that taking one source of information as more accurate just because you know the person is somewhat of a logical fallacy.  

[maenad nuri]

G~ as ethnic slur:
http://www.blacksheepbellydance.com/writings/files/plrom.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs#G

http://www.geocities.com/~patrin/rroma.htm
(explanation of why G~ is offensive, but doesn't go into it being a slur, but the reasons are the same.

Quote:

Why Rroma and not Gypsies?

In the Rromani language, self-identification involves the word "Rrom." When encountering other Rroma, "Are you Rrom?" is asked, not "Are you Gypsy?" The designation as "Gypsy" is related to the old belief that the Rroma came from Egypt, though studies of the Rromani language in the late 18th century revealed their Indian origin.

In non-English speaking countries, the Rroma are usually referred to as Zigeuner, Zingari, Tsiganes and other variants stemming from the Greek word "Atsinganoi," which was actually a religious sect in the Byzantine Empire, unrelated to the Rroma yet attributed to this "foreign" population.

For Rroma organizations and other human rights groups, the ethnic designation as Rrom (pl. Rroma, adj. Rromani) is a matter of self-determination, self-identification. A comparison may be made with the Inuit of North America who were formerly referred to as "Eskimos" - an externally applied name. The principle of self-identification involves public acknowledgment of the self-designated name and the implementation of its use.

I believe that the book Bury Me Standing, while using the word, also goes into why it is offensive, and uses it primarily because it's hard to educate people without them knowing what they are educating about.

etc, etc, etc.....  

[Orchidsandfractals]

Aino Ailill

Thank you!

Orchidsandfractals

If you do not consider my peer to be Rroma, it is your opinion, and as a Rroma, I will regard your opinion as that of someone who claims to be part of the Rroma culture as well, and if you call yourself such, as equally valid as her opinion of her culture if I knew you in person.However, if you say it requires talking to other people of her culture, her little brother generally calls himself American.

American is a nationality. That doesn't really speak to being of the Rroma culture.

Quote:

I don't question my peer's usage of the term as she considers herself such,and I do know her in person. I don't talk to her often, but when we did, I never knew her to lie. It's possible her great grandmother lied, though I do doubt that. I consider her usage of the term valid as she considers herself to be a part of the culture. I am not a part of the Rroma culture, so I will take my peer's word over a random internet source.

How does that [bolded] work? How does one claiming to be a part of something lend credence to their words?

Quote:

If you would like to link me to a website about the Rroma that you consider to be legitimate, I will take it into consideration, and I will probably ask my peer the next time I see her if she considers it an appropriate source, or if there is what is generally considered to be a "universal" group about such matters(Just as a Rabbi is considered a "legit" source for info about the Jewish people, or a newspaper is considered an acceptable source for news.), that is easily verified by 3 other sources(Such as CNN, published books, or some way to clarify that it is an accurate source. Basically, no blogs or crazy out there websites. Reasonable sources such as those used for school), I will consider your word to be more valid than that of my peer in regards to this matter and I will say that my friend is ignorant of her culture, or what she considers to be her culture. As I do not know legitimate Rroma sources for an explanation of the culture(Though, you may link some, and I will consider them.), I will listen to a peer I know IRL, who considers herself a part of the culture.

@ Tea - I's be interested in reading any websites you link on the subject. 3nodding

Quote:

Gaia in it of itself, and the people on here, is not an acceptable source IMO for information to be 100% truthful. Just look at most of the forums here... LD, LI, GD, Chatterbox. Need I list more? XD

Well...yes. The presence of those forums, in and of themselves, do not explain why something posted on Gaia cannot be considered valid by itself.

Quote:

One is born Jewish, faith and culturally. You can break the covenant if you like, it's a sin, but you still remain religiously as well as culturally Jewish. You're just a very bad Jew. It's kinda complicated. You can be a Jewish atheist, you're just not being a good Jew. You can't change your religion of being Jewish once you're born into a Jewish family. My ancestors are rather culturally Scottish in the sense that kilt wearing only stopped once male children of legitimate marriages stopped being born(Really, only the first born child of a male chieftain can wear a kilt. Now, who the chieftain is in my clan gets VERY tricky. A lot of name changes, and depending on which law we're looking at, it's whoever owns the "castle", which is to say a tract of land in a small town. Currently, it's some random oil tycoon that only bought it from the British government to have permission for the oil rights on the North Sea. By other standards, it's some random guy in Canada. By some others, it gets even trickier since I am female and my mother married a non "noble" as did most of my ancestors, which messes with clan laws depending on which set we're looking at, as is the case with all the leaders of my clan, and most other clans for that matter.), and with my great grandmother, the only member of my family who was eligible to wear a kilt(My father's side was more peasants.), was her father.

That presumes the validity of the religion. Should the religion not be valid, then by what authority does one call another a Jew, in religion?

In regard to culture, that is not passed, necessarily, through lineage. One may be born of a Jewish mother, but raised in a Gentile tradition. If this is the case, then they are considered of the Chosen People, certainly, but they are not a part of the culture. To be a part of a culture, one must share a great number of things.

OED Draft Revised, Sept 2009

culture, n.

7. a. Chiefly as a count noun. The distinctive ideas, customs, social behaviour, products, or way of life of a particular society, people, or period. Hence: a society or group characterized by such customs, etc.

Quote:

Judaism is a tricky religion in that respect. It's not a matter of breaking Jewish laws for the Lulz, but following what I feel is the correct path for me, regardless of what laws of a religion I am born into and cannot leave, but choose not to follow. Judaism does not allow anyone but converts(which... I'm not 100% sure on that. I know converts aren't "full" Jews, but their children are.) to leave. Once a Jew, always a Jew,but a sinning Jew if one decides to leave is the best way to sum it up.

Converts are not full Jews? Will you expound on this? I was under the impression that, though the conversion process is lengthy, once one managed to get through it, they were as Jewish as a person born of a Jewish mother.

In regards to Judaism converts. It's mostly Othodox Jews, and it's really in regards to some types of marriages in terms of the laws out there(And I think what the punishments are supposed to be if you do major sins, or break a comandment. Not totally sure on that one though. I am pretty sure on the marriage bit). I think there are a few laws regarding what a convert can do in the Temples, but most of those laws are nulled as people don't exactly sacrifice animals anymore. Also, a Rabbi is supposed to try to discourage converts. You're not supposed to remind converts that they are converts though, though most Temples do otherwise in practice.

With the Jewish culture, there are many different types of Jewish culture. I was raised in a Scottish Jewish varied religions culture. That makes my Jewish culture very different than Ashkanzi(and I probably spelled that wrong), and Sephardic, which are each different than each other. Certainly, if a Jewish child is adopted out at birth to a non Jew, they do have a different culture raised with them, but if they had much contact at all and were raised to know they are Jewish, they are Jews, and have some IDing with the culture.

If one does not presume Judaism to be the valid religion for oneself, one may call oneself something else, while still being Jewish. However, I am Jewish. I am not a practicing Jew, I do not feel the religion is for me. However, that does not null the fact I AM Jewish. It just means that I am a sinful Jew. Now, that is more applicable to other Jews than myself, and not really relevant to now Jews. However, it is relevant in the event I wish to marry a Jewish man in the future, or any event like that, as I would not need to convert to Judaism. In the event I have children, should one of them wish to be Jewish, their conversion process would be a lot simpler, as all they would have to do is get circumsised, study the Torah, and have a Bar Mitzah as opposed to the normal conversion process. It does still affect me, even if I choose not to practice it as my regular religion and view it as invalid.

I would like to see valid outside sources to back up a person's opinion on Gaia before I would consider it to be fact.  

[Nines19]

Orchidsandfractals

TeaDidikai- How would you suggest I confirm that she is a goddess then? I feel she is one, and based on what I have studied of religion, there is no further proof beyond that you feel overcome with the "power" of her. For the record, I tried praying last night(Lit a candle,and tried to think of the light that was around her), and the name that popped into my head was Athena(A bit VERY strangely pronounced, and I know people from Northern Greece, and it was not a Greek accent to the best of my knowledge.). I know that that is likely not her real name, as well, and well, Athena is not a hawk Goddess, though I suppose owls would make sense, but what I saw looked like a hawk.

It's possible (if we're going under the assumption that you are having encounters with a deity) that s/he is attempting to appear in forms you would understand - including refering to themselves as similar deities that you know of (such as Athena). I have heard of others with experiences like that.

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why you're asking us, that is, random people on the internet, for information on the deity YOU are (possibly) encountering. Why not ask her? If it's truly a deity (or, possibly, even if not), and she truly is interested in you for whatever reason, she'll probably reveal herself to you in her ways.  

[Orchidsandfractals]

Kuroiban

Orchidsandfractals

Again, my peer considers the g word to be the most accurate word in regards to her culture. It's not she has never heard of the word Rroma before, but a personal preference. I would like to see several sources that are generally accepted as accurate Rroma sources that point to the idea that the g word is considered to be VERY negative by most Rroma. I would personally say the g word in American culture is not a negative word, unlike the n word, in terms of how it is most commonly used, so it seems more logical for a Rroma person to use the g word to describe themselves than a "black" person to use the n word to describe themselves, but people do the latter with some frequency. I consider my peer to be an accurate source of info about the Rroma culture as she herself IDs as part of it, and I consider her to be a more accurate source than random Gaia members. However, if random Gaia members can back up their claims with info from a group they consider to be accurate, and that is generally considered to be accurate, and that my peer IRL verifies(Or multiple other sources that I would consider to be accurate), I will admit my peer is wrong. That's the case with my mother referring to herself as Wiccan. Looking up basic facts about Wicca, and having a friend of mine who is neopagan tell me my mother is wrong, that overruled the word of my mother in regards to her faith.

I can tell my IRL friends I'm a bat. I could tell my on-line friends the same things just as easily. This does not make me a bat.

I'm not being a d**k; I'm merely establishing that taking one source of information as more accurate just because you know the person is somewhat of a logical fallacy.

I would say a person in real life is less likely than a random on the internet to lie about being part of a culture. This is because when you are on the internet, it is easy to lie about who you are, as you are not talking to the person face to face, and you can also log off and take a pause if the lie is too great for you. That's unlike the real world.  

[Orchidsandfractals]

maenad nuri

G~ as ethnic slur:
http://www.blacksheepbellydance.com/writings/files/plrom.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ethnic_slurs#G

http://www.geocities.com/~patrin/rroma.htm
(explanation of why G~ is offensive, but doesn't go into it being a slur, but the reasons are the same.

Quote:

Why Rroma and not Gypsies?

In the Rromani language, self-identification involves the word "Rrom." When encountering other Rroma, "Are you Rrom?" is asked, not "Are you Gypsy?" The designation as "Gypsy" is related to the old belief that the Rroma came from Egypt, though studies of the Rromani language in the late 18th century revealed their Indian origin.

In non-English speaking countries, the Rroma are usually referred to as Zigeuner, Zingari, Tsiganes and other variants stemming from the Greek word "Atsinganoi," which was actually a religious sect in the Byzantine Empire, unrelated to the Rroma yet attributed to this "foreign" population.

For Rroma organizations and other human rights groups, the ethnic designation as Rrom (pl. Rroma, adj. Rromani) is a matter of self-determination, self-identification. A comparison may be made with the Inuit of North America who were formerly referred to as "Eskimos" - an externally applied name. The principle of self-identification involves public acknowledgment of the self-designated name and the implementation of its use.

I believe that the book Bury Me Standing, while using the word, also goes into why it is offensive, and uses it primarily because it's hard to educate people without them knowing what they are educating about.

etc, etc, etc.....

Thank you. I guess my peer has a very strange stance on which words she choose to use to describe her self IDed culture, which may not be her actual culture, and that it is generally offensive. I am sorry, Tea(as I notice others call you here), for having used a word that is offensive to your culture(Which, I will trust that you are an actual Rroma.), and I am sorry for using it and accidently insulting your culture.  

[whiporwill-o]

Orchidsandfractals

Kuroiban

Orchidsandfractals

Again, my peer considers the g word to be the most accurate word in regards to her culture. It's not she has never heard of the word Rroma before, but a personal preference. I would like to see several sources that are generally accepted as accurate Rroma sources that point to the idea that the g word is considered to be VERY negative by most Rroma. I would personally say the g word in American culture is not a negative word, unlike the n word, in terms of how it is most commonly used, so it seems more logical for a Rroma person to use the g word to describe themselves than a "black" person to use the n word to describe themselves, but people do the latter with some frequency. I consider my peer to be an accurate source of info about the Rroma culture as she herself IDs as part of it, and I consider her to be a more accurate source than random Gaia members. However, if random Gaia members can back up their claims with info from a group they consider to be accurate, and that is generally considered to be accurate, and that my peer IRL verifies(Or multiple other sources that I would consider to be accurate), I will admit my peer is wrong. That's the case with my mother referring to herself as Wiccan. Looking up basic facts about Wicca, and having a friend of mine who is neopagan tell me my mother is wrong, that overruled the word of my mother in regards to her faith.

I can tell my IRL friends I'm a bat. I could tell my on-line friends the same things just as easily. This does not make me a bat.

I'm not being a d**k; I'm merely establishing that taking one source of information as more accurate just because you know the person is somewhat of a logical fallacy.

I would say a person in real life is less likely than a random on the internet to lie about being part of a culture. This is because when you are on the internet, it is easy to lie about who you are, as you are not talking to the person face to face, and you can also log off and take a pause if the lie is too great for you. That's unlike the real world.

i find this to be an opinion. it is just as easy to lie irl as it is online, example: plenty of men and women pass themselves off as the opposite gender in real life aka drag queens and kings.

and it may not even have anything to do with lying, simply misinformation, such as the countless people who claim to be of a specific religion but, for many reasons, simply can not be due to the traditions expectations of its followers.  

[Orchidsandfractals]

Nines19

Orchidsandfractals

TeaDidikai- How would you suggest I confirm that she is a goddess then? I feel she is one, and based on what I have studied of religion, there is no further proof beyond that you feel overcome with the "power" of her. For the record, I tried praying last night(Lit a candle,and tried to think of the light that was around her), and the name that popped into my head was Athena(A bit VERY strangely pronounced, and I know people from Northern Greece, and it was not a Greek accent to the best of my knowledge.). I know that that is likely not her real name, as well, and well, Athena is not a hawk Goddess, though I suppose owls would make sense, but what I saw looked like a hawk.

It's possible (if we're going under the assumption that you are having encounters with a deity) that s/he is attempting to appear in forms you would understand - including refering to themselves as similar deities that you know of (such as Athena). I have heard of others with experiences like that.

To be honest, I'm not entirely sure why you're asking us, that is, random people on the internet, for information on the deity YOU are (possibly) encountering. Why not ask her? If it's truly a deity (or, possibly, even if not), and she truly is interested in you for whatever reason, she'll probably reveal herself to you in her ways.

I did try to ask her mentally, though I don't really know any ways to pray and ask clearly. She did not appear very clearly to me when I was praying to her, though I did see the light that surrounded her in my dream. I am still working on figuring out how to pray, which could be why her name was so unclear. I am asking for suggestions so I can try to figure out who she is, and look for manners of praying that may appease her into telling me her name. I am asking random people on the internet as I am not ready to tell my RL friends and family that I've stopped being atheist and have decided to worship a random hawk goddess. I'd at least like to figure out who she is before I go to a pagan/alternative book store and ask about random goddesses, or have a rough idea.