Cirenes || [ closed; too busy ]

[Elsiane]

Cirenes

Elsiane, if you'd like, I'll be your mentor for a month. :] I'm not sure how we're going to make the transition from realism to anime (to be honest I don't know the first thing about realism! xD) but since you have experience drawing people in general, it shouldn't be too difficult. If you'd like, please show me an anime-style WIP, and we can start from there. ^^

oh I would love that!! thank you so much!! i'm so excited biggrin Here's something I just did that I'm not sure about how to improve.

first lineart: | second | superimposed

- the red is worse, i think...
- hand. (She is supposed to be slightly scheming and giggly but the hand is so neutral and noncommittal that it sort of ruins the character.)
- hair? I was trying to think of Belldandy (AMG) when I did this.
- I am crap at eyes. I can draw globes. See below for eyes that look like globes.



I would love see your critique on the face and the hair if you had a moment surprised
- The sparkle on the eye? weird?

If you don't mind I will ask you a burning question about sequencing... D: just your thoughts.

in your shoujo style, when do you do lineart? before colouring, to give form? after, to give definition? both? are we supposed to create form by using lines, or with blobs of colour, like painting? After seeing how a variety of artists do it, I would love to know when/how you do it! your lines are so crisp!

thanks heaps smile  

[Cirenes]

Quote:

first lineart: | second | superimposed

- the red is worse, i think...
- hand. (She is supposed to be slightly scheming and giggly but the hand is so neutral and noncommittal that it sort of ruins the character.)
- hair? I was trying to think of Belldandy (AMG) when I did this.
- I am crap at eyes. I can draw globes. See below for eyes that look like globes.

She looks lovely, and very feminine. <3

I think what her right hand is doing, the left could be doing instead, because the position of her right hand implies that she's going out of her way to reach out and show it to us. ^^;

As for her hair, I think it flows very nicely. :3 My only critique is that the lines could be better defined or more detailed, so that when you color, it'll look crisper. Of course, it's still in sketch stage, so I can't say much. :]

I'm sure you've noticed, but there are many, many different ways to draw anime eyes. xD Here's the way I do it, just as a reference:

I tend to change my eye-drawing style quite a bit.. but it's good to experiment with different ways of drawing them. :>

Quote:

I would love see your critique on the face and the hair if you had a moment surprised
- The sparkle on the eye? weird?

I like the movement in this one. Her hair flows out very nicely--though, again, the lines could be a bit more defined. Typically, in anime styles, everything is lined and detailed before color is put in. If you want a sort of fade-out effect, people just change the line color. xD
Her face proportions look perfectly fine to me. Perhaps I'd make the nose a bit pointier, and move the line defining her cheekbone a bit higher. :3 I think the eyes could be a bit longer in general, and include less of the eye whites--this is completely legit in anime, hehe. I addressed other parts of the eyes and eye shines above, so please refer to that. <3

Quote:

If you don't mind I will ask you a burning question about sequencing... D: just your thoughts.

in your shoujo style, when do you do lineart? before colouring, to give form? after, to give definition? both? are we supposed to create form by using lines, or with blobs of colour, like painting? After seeing how a variety of artists do it, I would love to know when/how you do it! your lines are so crisp!

For sequencing, the method I use (and most other anime artists, from what I've seen) is sketch --> lineart --> color. If you have a well-defined sketch, you can just take the outlines as a lineart, and then give the image some depth with colors last. I use a 0.5pt ink pen tool to do my lines, and take care that my ends meet. ^^ Usually people try to include all the details with lines alone, so that when they color, they can do just that and not worry about creating new shapes.
>>Example:
--> -->
The sketch ended up changing quite a bit due to sloppiness... it's easier to do the lineart if the sketch is done well. xD

Hope this helps! <3  

[Elsiane]

Cirenes

first lineart: | second | superimposed

She looks lovely, and very feminine. <3

I think what her right hand is doing, the left could be doing instead, because the position of her right hand implies that she's going out of her way to reach out and show it to us. ^^;

As for her hair, I think it flows very nicely. :3 My only critique is that the lines could be better defined or more detailed, so that when you color, it'll look crisper. Of course, it's still in sketch stage, so I can't say much. :]

Hmm hand foreshortening xD mm. good point.

re hair: I'm not sure how to get from sketch stage to the lineart stage.. eek. I think I have problems with hair shape generally (as you can see in the Katie pic). How do you do hair? straight/wavy/curly? I find myself resorting to very vague shapes as demonstrated above. What does shoujo anime hair look like usually?

Quote:

I'm sure you've noticed, but there are many, many different ways to draw anime eyes. xD Here's the way I do it, just as a reference:

I tend to change my eye-drawing style quite a bit.. but it's good to experiment with different ways of drawing them. :>

awesome and informative diagram. i think a variety of drawing eyes is important anyway - different personalities have different eyes! will work on it.

Quote:

I like the movement in this one. Her hair flows out very nicely--though, again, the lines could be a bit more defined. Typically, in anime styles, everything is lined and detailed before color is put in. If you want a sort of fade-out effect, people just change the line color. xD
Her face proportions look perfectly fine to me. Perhaps I'd make the nose a bit pointier, and move the line defining her cheekbone a bit higher. :3 I think the eyes could be a bit longer in general, and include less of the eye whites--this is completely legit in anime, hehe. I addressed other parts of the eyes and eye shines above, so please refer to that. <3

Eye white tip - goodness I never noticed that in all my time of examining anime! great point, i'll try that in my next exercise. It makes sense though, people think anime eyes are "big" but really they are just narrow with the same width of iris. I mean if they were just "big" they would look bizarre (I tried that.. took up half the face width).

Quote:

For sequencing, the method I use (and most other anime artists, from what I've seen) is sketch --> lineart --> color. If you have a well-defined sketch, you can just take the outlines as a lineart, and then give the image some depth with colors last. I use a 0.5pt ink pen tool to do my lines, and take care that my ends meet. ^^ Usually people try to include all the details with lines alone, so that when they color, they can do just that and not worry about creating new shapes.
>>Example:
--> -->
The sketch ended up changing quite a bit due to sloppiness... it's easier to do the lineart if the sketch is done well. xD

Hope this helps! <3

YES! thanks so much. I've been working on a couple of pieces over the weekend (one realism) so sorry for the late reply. but it has been so helpful!! am going to use that 0.5 brush and try lineart properly.  

[Cirenes]

Quote:

re hair: I'm not sure how to get from sketch stage to the lineart stage.. eek. I think I have problems with hair shape generally (as you can see in the Katie pic). How do you do hair? straight/wavy/curly? I find myself resorting to very vague shapes as demonstrated above. What does shoujo anime hair look like usually?

Anime hair is generally drawn in clumps. I tend to include thinner strands/clumps of hair in order to give the illusion that it's hair, not some large mass of solid object. lol It's also nice to include a few strands that aren't going in the same direction as the others, just to give it a bit of flair and more emphasis that this is indeed hair. xD

Examples of this can be... well, anywhere, to be honest.
etc. (I hope that's clear?)  

[Elsiane]

Hmmm.. it seems obvious doesn't it? XD There must be some sort of default anime shape that I'm missing.

What I tend to do is make a point where all the hair comes from (some point at the top of the head), and then all strands come from there. I don't think anime hair is supposed to be like that (I don't see any definitive point, or even particularly individual strands comprising the hair in your example). I see more like a flat body of colour that gets shaded, but not to the point of individual strands.

Ok, it's 1 am but let me try one.



wow, this looks remarkably more shoujo anime than i have ever done. thanks. xD... although I am sure there is much I am missing..  

[Cirenes]

I think the key here is subtlety. Anime is about simplifying overall figures into less detailed shapes, and I think knowing where and when and why to keep certain details is what makes good anime art. (This tends to come with experience and observation, so don't worry about it if you're not quite sure yet :3) Yes, you can add details using color and shading, but that comes after defining the certain flow and aspects of the hair.

Here's part of a 10-pointer "tutorial" WIP that I'm writing on and off.
(Below, most important point: Hair shape is determined by the lines moreso than the shading. See circled areas. :3)


(Below, just some tips on making pretty lineart with depth. xD See circled area: darkening corners in some places for an effect.)


It's good that you're making a point that the hair comes from a certain part of the head. Anime hair, as all hair, is like that. I tend to be lazy and don't put much emphasis in it (I only give the vague illusion that it's coming out of somewhere), which is what most anime artists do. xD That's not to say that it's not coming out of one spot-- you can tell the difference these, I think..

(Come to think of it, that's a bad example xD Lazy me~ haha)

Waah, she's very pretty! >w< I think her face looks fine-- you captured her sort of ephemeral expression very well. I can see that the hair is a bit clumpy--it wouldn't hurt to add in a bit more detail. :]
Here's my rendition of it. Of course, all of these are just suggestions. No need to implement every little thing I say, haha.
(I tried to fit too much stuff on it... ^^; )



I'm always a bit amused/frightened when people ask me about how to draw anime hair, because I kind of suck at it myself. lol Hope you find it useful, though! <3  

[Elsiane]

aaah! thank you SO MUCH!! yes VERY helpful!! I was thinking about "simplifying figures into less detailed shapes" for the last two days. Another thing - lineart is kind of like the "epitome" of form (which is exactly what I struggle most with). So I have been practising lineart, although I'm using non-anime at the moment. Here's a snippet.
.. still lots to work on.

Your tutorial WIP looks extremely pro. biggrin hmm. hmm
I still have so much to work on. OTL.

The following practice was on colour, line was kind of crap still.

Hair:


For the hair shine, I couldn't quite decide whether to do the one band or the little squiggles, I tried both. (They don't look so great superimposed, though, lol.) The single band is harder to do but it makes the hair look smoother.

I was more or less trying to draw the same fringe, but I don't seem to have figured out what is "essential" and what is "not essential" for a fringe yet. I know that it looks wrong when I do a series of W's/V's, because that just looks like a zigzag. It also looks wrong when I try and make everything flyaway. Good anime hair has a more complex pattern than is immediately obvious. At one point I had a brainstorm and thought maybe the hair points need to point towards the centre (which is what I tried with the red hair).  

[Elsiane]

...and I am off to do some more practice because I obviously just read the nice redline you made for me and forgot about the rest of the advice, such as shape being more important than shading. D:.  

[Cirenes]

>w< I'm really glad that you're finding my advice useful! I apologize for the delay--as you may have seen on my journal, I've been quite busy.. xD;;

Anyway! I think you're getting better and better at anime art! @w@; It's kind of scary how fast you're picking things up, haha. I think most people take a much longer time to get the basics down.

Here's a suggestion that came to mind--how 'bout coloring pro-artists' lineart for practice? If you observe how their lines take form, it might help in your own linearting in finding the perfect medium between too many lines and too few lines. wink I can't help but observe how some people draw really nicely, and how they attain the form with so much perfection. I aspire to their level~ *w* If it doesn't help much, hey, at least you get to see pretty stuff. <3 lol

So far, I really like how you're differentiating your hair strands in terms of shape and size. It gives the hair more depth and realistic-ness (instead of too much/too little hair in each lock). biggrin

As for hair shine, do whatever works best for you. ^^ My only general advice on that point was that hair shine usually in a circular shape around the head, so there are very few limitations to where you can go with this. :3 (lol, yeah, I doubt anyone does band + squiggles... xD)

Aaaand that's all from me for now. Have fun~! ^u^  

[Elsiane]

Cirenes

>w< I'm really glad that you're finding my advice useful! I apologize for the delay--as you may have seen on my journal, I've been quite busy.. xD;;

Anyway! I think you're getting better and better at anime art! @w@; It's kind of scary how fast you're picking things up, haha. I think most people take a much longer time to get the basics down.

Here's a suggestion that came to mind--how 'bout coloring pro-artists' lineart for practice? If you observe how their lines take form, it might help in your own linearting in finding the perfect medium between too many lines and too few lines. wink I can't help but observe how some people draw really nicely, and how they attain the form with so much perfection. I aspire to their level~ *w* If it doesn't help much, hey, at least you get to see pretty stuff. <3 lol

So far, I really like how you're differentiating your hair strands in terms of shape and size. It gives the hair more depth and realistic-ness (instead of too much/too little hair in each lock). biggrin

As for hair shine, do whatever works best for you. ^^ My only general advice on that point was that hair shine usually in a circular shape around the head, so there are very few limitations to where you can go with this. :3 (lol, yeah, I doubt anyone does band + squiggles... xD)

Aaaand that's all from me for now. Have fun~! ^u^

Thanks so much for the reply! smile I've been working on 3-4 major projects (not counting the research I'm supposed to be doing!) at the moment so have been doing a lot of non-anime stuff (Disney-ish anime/realism crossoverish stuff, heh, you can see it on my dA if you're curious). My most recent one is a picture of my character on a text-based mud (ie, an RPG with no graphics), so I've taken great liberties. biggrin . The file is also massive so I have shrunk it here.

I have also been looking at keiiii..i?'s work (how many i's? I forget) from dA and really like all the backlighting she does. i am posting here in case you have time to do a critique regards anime-ishness.


my current WIP:


As far as I can tell, it looks like anime head and hair on a relatively realistic body... haha. You can probably tell that I'm shading negatively (white, not black shading) and that the hair isn't finished. I got stuck over the cloth and completely redid it 3-4 times. (I'm a bit of a perfectionist which is very bad..) I'm sure it was fine the other times too, it's just that I didn't really have a reference and wasn't sure how to portray a more anime look for cloth other than my mental conceptions of "chiffon" and "satin" and "crisp tablecloth," lol.

Also, the nose has become far too realistic for anime. what do anime noses look like from a low light source?

And I shall now go off and look for some pro artists lineart xD. just wanted to show you what i was doing if I was on the right track.  

[Elsiane]

just a quick post to let you know I'm being all but drowned in uni (my clinic placement just started and i am excited but absolutely floundering) so my art practice has slowed down almost to a halt, have been absolutely loving your advice so far and really taken away some helpful stuff. my placement lasts 5 weeks so my month under your mentoring may lapse in that time - regardless it's been fantastic to be mentored by you and i'll definitely keep working on shoujo style and lineart!!

just a quick question - am i allowed to reapply in some other month? not consecutive months, obviously, but sometime distantly in the future? if not - well, i know i can't keep your awesome mentorship all to myself razz . thanks so much for everything!!  

[Cirenes]

Ack, I'm so sorry to have neglected this thread! ><;; It seems that we're both very busy. Yes, of course you may reapply! biggrin I'm glad that my advice has been useful to you, even though it seems to have been minimal. OTL I'll reply to your other post in a bit! <3  

[Cirenes]

Elsiane

Thanks so much for the reply! smile I've been working on 3-4 major projects (not counting the research I'm supposed to be doing!) at the moment so have been doing a lot of non-anime stuff (Disney-ish anime/realism crossoverish stuff, heh, you can see it on my dA if you're curious). My most recent one is a picture of my character on a text-based mud (ie, an RPG with no graphics), so I've taken great liberties. biggrin . The file is also massive so I have shrunk it here.

I have also been looking at keiiii..i?'s work (how many i's? I forget) from dA and really like all the backlighting she does. i am posting here in case you have time to do a critique regards anime-ishness.


my current WIP:


As far as I can tell, it looks like anime head and hair on a relatively realistic body... haha. You can probably tell that I'm shading negatively (white, not black shading) and that the hair isn't finished. I got stuck over the cloth and completely redid it 3-4 times. (I'm a bit of a perfectionist which is very bad..) I'm sure it was fine the other times too, it's just that I didn't really have a reference and wasn't sure how to portray a more anime look for cloth other than my mental conceptions of "chiffon" and "satin" and "crisp tablecloth," lol.

Also, the nose has become far too realistic for anime. what do anime noses look like from a low light source?

And I shall now go off and look for some pro artists lineart xD. just wanted to show you what i was doing if I was on the right track.

*w* It's so pretty! I love how it all flows so well together! <33

Hmm, anime-style cloth in general tends to be edgy (as opposed to round/lumpy-ish like in real life), so you can see the folds clearly. Usually, the folds are elaborately drawn in at the lineart stage.... or so I've seen from my experiences. xD But it's definitely easier to have a well-defined shape before you go on coloring it. :3
Example below... not that good, but trying. OTL Of course, it's just my own style; I'm sure there are a million ways to draw the same thing. xD


As for noses... Have you seen those scenes in RPG/sci-fi type anime where they have a magic circle lit up at their feet? xD I'm not sure if there's a better way to explain it, but... for low light sources, I use two layers of shading, like I did with this piece. It might be hard to tell (and that's the point lol) but there's one lighter shading and the darker enhancing shading. It might be easier to tell on the legs. ^^;

I hope this helps, even if it's just a bit! ^^;  

[Cirenes]

I suppose I'll open the slot now.

I will be busy 8/15~8/25, so the time span will be 7/26~9/5. Also, if you intend to apply, please keep in mind that I'm constantly busy with something, so my replies may not be as prompt as you may like. ^^;

If that's okay with you, please feel free to apply~! <3  

[roxas-someones half]

Name: Liam Dawson
Samples:
Years of experience: 0( I am a begginer but understand all the basics. Ah the wonders of youtube.)
What you want to learn/improve on: overall drawing.