New To Polytheism: Seeking Advice, Please!

[Violet Song jat Shariff]

You might also check out the Theoi Project...I'd link it, but the page isn't loading for me gonk .  

[Recursive Paradox]

Sophist

Recursive Paradox

Collowrath

Sophist

TeaDidikai

Test all UPG.

How, when you're not even sure what you're looking for? I have yet to come across an ancient text with the chapter headed "What to look for when contacting (insert God/dess here) in order to verify it is really (Him/Her/It)."

I think the biggest clue would be if it clearly violates the mythology or the precedent the God has set down previously. For instance, if Dionysos asks you to honor him by quiet meditation and a life of sober abstinence, it might just not be Him.

That and attempt to replicate the results as much as you can. You may not be able to perfectly apply empiricism to your UPG but you can apply some level of testing rigor to it.

So consistent results would mean that it is the God you mean to communicate to? Couldn't a thoughtform do the same thing?

It depends. Destabilize your mood and your mindset. Fight back any internalized elements that could be interacting with this. Thoughtforms won't respond in the same way when you perturb your internal system because they are of your internal system. If the response is the same and consistent then you are dealing with an external element.

Of course, this won't eliminate malicious or trickster spirits and gods who are fooling you, but it will at least establish that something is speaking to you and it isn't something from inside you.

It's a good first step ^^  

[Bastemhet]

Recursive Paradox

Sophist

Recursive Paradox

Collowrath

Sophist

TeaDidikai

Test all UPG.

How, when you're not even sure what you're looking for? I have yet to come across an ancient text with the chapter headed "What to look for when contacting (insert God/dess here) in order to verify it is really (Him/Her/It)."

I think the biggest clue would be if it clearly violates the mythology or the precedent the God has set down previously. For instance, if Dionysos asks you to honor him by quiet meditation and a life of sober abstinence, it might just not be Him.

That and attempt to replicate the results as much as you can. You may not be able to perfectly apply empiricism to your UPG but you can apply some level of testing rigor to it.

So consistent results would mean that it is the God you mean to communicate to? Couldn't a thoughtform do the same thing?

It depends. Destabilize your mood and your mindset. Fight back any internalized elements that could be interacting with this. Thoughtforms won't respond in the same way when you perturb your internal system because they are of your internal system. If the response is the same and consistent then you are dealing with an external element.

Of course, this won't eliminate malicious or trickster spirits and gods who are fooling you, but it will at least establish that something is speaking to you and it isn't something from inside you.

It's a good first step ^^

Wow...I have never heard of that before. Thank you for the explanation, but could you clarify more what the meaning is of the use of the word system? What are the symptoms of a stabilized system as opposed to a destabilized system? Why would thoughtforms thrive in a stabilized one, and how would one go about destabilizing it? Actually, would this be explained in your pathways thread? I don't want to ask you to repeat yourself if you've already explained this elsewhere.  

[TeaDidikai]

Leaf Worship

Discovery and thought process does not have to be as bitter as your words imply.

My words didn't imply it. You inferred it.

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You can enjoy your journey and try to piece together what fits. It will take time and mistakes that I am willing to make and untrue beliefs I am willing to disregard (what you call thoughtform).

How do you figure that I believe thoughtforms to be "untrue"? I just acknowledge that they aren't what they say on the tin.

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Even if what I develop you think is wrong, it is still my own.

If you develop a system that is not only wrong, but immoral, I'll call you on it- and if needs be, involve law enforcement. I mean for ******** sake- there are people out there who think being of the Wica allows the men to molest their daughters with home made dildos, mothers to cut their sons genitals, then get their kids drunk and hand them over to their friends to be raped.

I am happy to disagree with people's theological positions. There are a few Soft Polytheists lurking around here and I think they're wrong and if they post on the subject, I'm happy to discuss it.

But just because it's your own, that doesn't mean it's untouchable.

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Having such happiness shouldn't be wrong, even if it is thoughtless in your perspective.

You're not stupid enough to justify raping kids as part of your religion. But people who are that dispicable stand by the same reasoning.

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You do not make me feel like embracing any sort of expansion.

I would consider that a personal problem. One you may want to address.

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I think your methods of assistance are too abrasive for my taste. You do not have to be discouraging to get a message or viewpoint across to me.

I realize you're starting to get used to the Guild, but I have to give you props for taking an important lesson away from this. Building a tougher skin is a very good idea.

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I am not asking you to be nice to me or even talk to me. Ultimately, what I become and evolve into should not matter to you. I think it would be best to acknowledge your suggestion of research. I will look into primary sources and history for reference and decision-making, but such decisions should be made on my own without your input. Frankly, there's a difference between being a constructional skeptic and being unpleasant.

Often that difference is only found in how butthurt the person being challenged feels at the time.

Sophist

How, when you're not even sure what you're looking for? I have yet to come across an ancient text with the chapter headed "What to look for when contacting (insert God/dess here) in order to verify it is really (Him/Her/It)."

Well, the classic one has already been addressed.

Double check against tradition to ensure that the information being granted doesn't betray a taboo or the like.

Other elements involve shifting the deity mentally.

Leaf Worship

I was accustomed to the idea of a welcoming with a warm-fuzzy approach, and I made a bad assumption; what she said threw me off guard and dismembered my ideas.

I'm okay at welcoming, but not so good at warm-fuzzy.

I have this thing against blowing sunshine up people's a**. ~shrugs~

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Maybe I can speak when I am not so lost and I have some information at my side as a companion.

I do hope you'll stick around.

Leaf Worship

I am interested in researching. I am going to start with Hellenic primary sources. Is there anyone who has suggested reading that would help me understand tradition and deities more thoroughly? Maybe even a site that directs to such works, or anything to suggest in general?

Sacred Texts is usually a good resource.

We also have the Mentor sub forum that has a Hellenic thread.

Also- is it just me or is http://www.theoi.com/ down like a two bit rug?  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

[Well, the classic one has already been addressed.

Double check against tradition to ensure that the information being granted doesn't betray a taboo or the like.

Other elements involve shifting the deity mentally.

OK. I am trying to look into texts (I was also referring to myself in this post) and the problem with Ancient Egypt is that there wasn't a lot written down in terms of religious texts, compared to Hellenic or Norse traditions. Most of whatever I'll find has to be pieced together from interpretations of archaeologists since I don't have the time nor pleasure of going and excavating or examining artifacts in Egypt myself, and this in itself can take as much effort as getting a degree in the subject. I've also tried finding a community online and nearby and most of them have stopped being active. Still going to research and do my best, though.

Could you explain further what you mean by shifting the deity mentally please?  

[TeaDidikai]

Sophist

Could you explain further what you mean by shifting the deity mentally please?

When it comes to altered states of awareness, shifting appearance or nature of the being is one way to test it.

If it's internal, the shift will resonate back as such.
If it's external, the shift will deaden.

The neat thing about this is that the resonance continues even if your shift is an attempt to emulate deadening.  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

Sophist

Could you explain further what you mean by shifting the deity mentally please?

When it comes to altered states of awareness, shifting appearance or nature of the being is one way to test it.

If it's internal, the shift will resonate back as such.
If it's external, the shift will deaden.

The neat thing about this is that the resonance continues even if your shift is an attempt to emulate deadening.

I'm not sure I'm understanding you, but I will make an example. If I was totally sleep deprived and decided to ask a deity if they would let me know it is them, or that I should worship them, and I get a feeling that I think they are responding, I should try to shift my mental image of what the deity looks like- and if it does shift, then it was just my imagination, or of it doesn't shift even if I am consciously trying to pretend-morph it into whatever I want it to be, then it is really the deity?

Wow that was a mouthful. sweatdrop  

[Recursive Paradox]

Sophist

Wow...I have never heard of that before. Thank you for the explanation, but could you clarify more what the meaning is of the use of the word system? What are the symptoms of a stabilized system as opposed to a destabilized system?

System = you. Your mind. Your emotional state and psychological state. Destabilization is simply changing the format of your state. Mess with your paradigms, your worldview, maybe imagine something strange and confusing while you try to contact your gods. Anything that would make your mind go off kilter a bit and change the way your thoughtforms operate.

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Why would thoughtforms thrive in a stabilized one, and how would one go about destabilizing it?

It isn't a question of thriving. It's a question of response type. A thoughtform will appear a certain way if your mind is in a certain state. Change that state and the thoughtform will seem different. Whereas an external being will not change.

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Actually, would this be explained in your pathways thread? I don't want to ask you to repeat yourself if you've already explained this elsewhere.

It isn't really in my pathways thread, mostly because my path functions pretty much the same whether the Aspects are thoughtforms or actual Spiritual Reflections. Channeling still functions from pulling external energy internally, using Aspectual symbols to create affinity to a certain energy type. The theory is that the energy comes from the Aspect, but even if it doesn't the affinity still works and the energy still flows.

And the philosophy isn't dependent on the Aspects being anything either. So I haven't been terribly vigorous to explore the Aspects because they will continue to function perfectly whether external or internal.  

[Recursive Paradox]

Someday I'm going to need to figure out how Tea manages to summarize what I put into three or four paragraphs into one to two sentences.

x_x

It would be a useful skill, that summarizing...  

[Bastemhet]

Recursive Paradox

Someday I'm going to need to figure out how Tea manages to summarize what I put into three or four paragraphs into one to two sentences.

x_x

It would be a useful skill, that summarizing...

Actually, thanks for clarifying. While Tea has great skill in being concise, it is not always necessarily helpful to someone who is not familiar with terms and philosophy being used, and it can all be quite confusing. I am grateful for any attempt to share knowledge, however. Thank you both, I think I understand what you were trying to say. Now it's up to me to figure out what this means for my path.  

[Bastemhet]

TeaDidikai

Sophist

Could you explain further what you mean by shifting the deity mentally please?

When it comes to altered states of awareness, shifting appearance or nature of the being is one way to test it.

If it's internal, the shift will resonate back as such.
If it's external, the shift will deaden.

The neat thing about this is that the resonance continues even if your shift is an attempt to emulate deadening.

Actually, let me try one more time because I'm beginning to think it's a confusion of semantics.

By "it" do you mean a deity? Or a fallacious idea of one being there while in reality it is not?

What do you mean by resonate? And deaden?

If [being or idea of being] is internal, the shift [in awareness] will [change the conception of what I am experiencing, thus proving that the experience was based on my mind, not on an external being].

If [being] is external, the shift [in awareness] will [cloud the ability to connect with said being].

No? As per your last statement, if I am to believe that it is truly the being/deity I think it is, then no matter what state I'm in I should get the same feeling that I am talking to a deity and the conception of the deity should not change just from a change in my thought pattern or awareness?  

[maenad nuri]

Theoi has come back up -- it's a great site, one of the best, but the webmaster has issues with it sometimes.  

[patch99329]

I'm glad theoi is back. I was annoyed earlier because alot of the websites I usually reccomend to people like yourself, were down.

I was going to reccommend hands on hellenism for a little something about the modern religion. It's how I started. ^_^

As for primary sources, you can't go wrong with what has been reccommended. 3nodding Hesiod is good to start, theogony is short and introduces the gods and their family tree.
I have both Theogony and works and days in a little volume that I bought rather cheaply off amazon!  

[TeaDidikai]

Sophist

By "it" do you mean a deity? Or a fallacious idea of one being there while in reality it is not?

First one then the other. I gave examples for if it's a figment or if it's a deity.

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What do you mean by resonate? And deaden?

The way the interaction and the energy feels. Trying to change the nature of a deity has the energetic feel of throwing a softball into a sack of flour, in contrast to a thoughtform which has the same feeling of chucking a hardball into a pond. Not only is the pond going to give, but the ripples will flit outward.

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If [being or idea of being] is internal, the shift [in awareness] will [change the conception of what I am experiencing, thus proving that the experience was based on my mind, not on an external being].

If [being] is external, the shift [in awareness] will [cloud the ability to connect with said being].

No?

Not quite. There isn't a good English word for the tool being used here. Did my explanation above help?

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As per your last statement, if I am to believe that it is truly the being/deity I think it is, then no matter what state I'm in I should get the same feeling that I am talking to a deity and the conception of the deity should not change just from a change in my thought pattern or awareness?

Let me give you an example.

~Insert Huge Warning Sign and blaring Lights and Siren~
This is a pretty crass way to go about it. Verify within the tradition that such is okay.

I'm doing my thing and suddenly a Being claiming to be ... ~thinks of who to pick on~ my dad appears. I say Hi, welcome him, and then because of what is expected of me- I test him. My dad expects this of me. I try to change his hair and eye color and then I ask him a question that only he and I could know about.

None of these details is as important as the information my senses provide me. The "internal feedback" that is present when I try and change his nature if it's a thoughtform etc.
If it is him, instead of "feedback", there's a sense of what I just pitched him hitting him and falling flat like a softball hitting a sack of flour.  

[Bastemhet]

I see. Thanks for taking the time to clarify. You must be very in tune with yourself because I think if I came across this situation I might not be so discriminative! I suppose this is something I'd have to work on for myself, but your examples gave me an idea of what I might look for.