Dumbledore's Horocrux?

[flying_wings]

*idea just popped into head*
What if Grindewald managed to take over the German Ministry?

I was talking about maybe that there was a wizarding Axis counterpart, with a dictator for each associated country mirroring the Muggle one. Then the dictator of the Wizarding ones might introduce themselves to the Muggle ones, kind of like what Fudge did.

So, Avada Kedavra with wand point to his body or Muggle weapondry like Hitler or having someone else use Avada Kedavra? Then again this could just be 'defeat' as in killed.

Dumbledore would have been in his early 100's, so still 50 years of experience left. Plenty of time to make mistakes. Is there a particular reason besides being a cover story for the knowledge of hypothetical Horcruxes; that Dumbledore said that merely taking Voldemort's life wouldn't satisfy him? We could also take into consideration the best scene that fits JKR's reference to possible boggart clues, The Cave. Regrets about murder perhaps showed through the potion.

I have a gut instinct that Dumbledore murdered Grindewald, but that's not evidence. So here's where no one will see it.  

[Aci Dixinic]

*Veers of topic* Oh my god, why do so many people suddenly have those Beaxbatons-looking blue robes?

*Gets back on topic*
I think that the wizarding and muggle wars run parallel; I doubt they would overlap. Oh wait, you were talking about Grin taking over the German Ministry of Magic, weren't you? I thought for a second you meant the German government.

Okay, so yes, I agree there is a possibility that Grin took over the German Ministry of Magic, since Hitler took over the German government. And that means that when he was 'defeated", he was the German Minister for Magic, or the Magical Fuhrer, or whatever you want to call it.  

[flying_wings]

Acidic Cynic

I think that the wizarding and muggle wars run parallel; I doubt they would overlap. Oh wait, you were talking about Grin taking over the German Ministry of Magic, weren't you? I thought for a second you meant the German government.

Well, he could have done that too by having Hitler in office like a puppet or something. Or having the Nazi party act under his control for influence in the Muggle world.

Acidic Cynic

Okay, so yes, I agree there is a possibility that Grin took over the German Ministry of Magic, since Hitler took over the German government. And that means that when he was 'defeated", he was the German Minister for Magic, or the Magical Fuhrer, or whatever you want to call it.

Yep. Defeated either means suicide or murder. I have a gut feeling that Dumbledore killed Grin, but with historical parallels it points to suicide.
This would be a good interview question: How did Grindewald die?
We know Grin's dead at any rate.  

[Aci Dixinic]

flying_wings

Acidic Cynic

I think that the wizarding and muggle wars run parallel; I doubt they would overlap. Oh wait, you were talking about Grin taking over the German Ministry of Magic, weren't you? I thought for a second you meant the German government.

Well, he could have done that too by having Hitler in office like a puppet or something. Or having the Nazi party act under his control for influence in the Muggle world.

I don't think Hitler was a puppet. I've studied him a little, and I'm pretty sure he was a mad, evil, fascinating b*****d who had to have done it all on his own. Like I said, parallels. Not overlaps. And something as big as Hitler being a pupet of a dark wizard is a HUGE overlap.

flying_wings

Acidic Cynic

Okay, so yes, I agree there is a possibility that Grin took over the German Ministry of Magic, since Hitler took over the German government. And that means that when he was 'defeated", he was the German Minister for Magic, or the Magical Fuhrer, or whatever you want to call it.

Yep. Defeated either means suicide or murder. I have a gut feeling that Dumbledore killed Grin, but with historical parallels it points to suicide.
This would be a good interview question: How did Grindewald die?
We know Grin's dead at any rate.

Do we now?  

[flying_wings]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[Aci Dixinic]

flying_wings

Acidic Cynic

Do we now?

Yes, we do wink In the Mugglenet/Leaky cauldron interview, JKR says Grin's dead.

Notice the part where it says 'Is he important' then there is no real answer for that? It's also worth noting that she cut off Emerson before he got to say who Grindewald might have had a connection with.

Hitler, right?
Is he important...maybe Harry will uncover some research on Grindelwald and it'll help him defeat V? Can you think of any other scenario's involving Grindelwald?

Oh, and nice research, finding that passage in the Melissa/Emerson interview. I know how long it is.  

[flying_wings]

*Hyper from GoF and seeing all the credits. 'No dragons were harmed in the making of this film.' rofl *


Important, but how? Most likely something with Dumbledore since Grin was defeated by him. Maybe the Pensieve has a bunch of messages from Dumbeldore so Harry can find out.

Maybe there's a reason why Dumbledore is so against Horcruxes because of the fact he's made one?

*Does math, and comes out with 1943 (TMR's 6th year), not 1945*
Ok, we still have about 98 years before 1945. Then about 80/81 years if you subtract the time before he comes of age. Still plenty of time for mistakes and learning, so enough time to make a Horcrux. Dumbledore could have made one or Grin could have made one (Hey, it's possible).


Three days later....
HEY! I found an editorial about Dumbledore that has a nice chunk about our (second) favorite Dark Wizard.
http://www.mugglenet.com/editorials/editorials/edit-ladylupin09.shtml  

[Aci Dixinic]

'Tis interesting.
3nodding
I think that is a very good point, that Grindelwald may have been Dumbledore's Voldemort. And that what he relived in the sea cave was Grindelwald's torture and/or murder of his family.
Interesting.

If it's true, does that just mean that the Dark Wars will just keep on happening, over and over? The Dark Lord is born, tries to become immortal, and tyrannises a child who then becomes their downfall?
Scary thought.  

[flying_wings]

~After reading some Red Hen Pub, I agree somewhat to a certain degree with their thoughts on Grin. Grin came before LV, therefore earlier in Dumbledore's life. Grin's dead and defeated, but Voldemort's at large and Dumbledore's dead.

~That would support the idea that Grin wasn't all that powerful.
He's not as powerful, but it goes along with Snape's first class speech. The part about the Dark Arts growing stronger and will always be there.

~The comment that tyrants make their own downfall. That they opress so many people that one victim is just bound to fight back. Who else thinks this is from personal experience? Raise your hand if you agree. *raises hand*

~Like history repeating itself because some just don't learn from the past.  

[i_heart_ron]

I just wish RedHen hadn't removed the Knights of Walpurgis essay; it tackles Grindelwald very classily and coherently.  

[JewelWoods]

i_heart_ron

I just wish RedHen hadn't removed the Knights of Walpurgis essay; it tackles Grindelwald very classily and coherently.

i would like to read that...  

[KarenA3391]

No way! Dumbledore would never do Dark Magic like that... it's one of the worst things they say a Wizard can do!