Using God's name in Vain

[Priestley]

Ixor-san

Priestley

LadyAbiel

Xandris

Because the words themselves don't really matter, it's the intent. If I told you to go lick a doorknob in the same tone as telling you to stick something somewhere anatomically painful, the meaning isn't lost. It's just the words that are different. And you know what? You'd get just as mad at me for the doorknob comment as the sticking it comment, because, in essence, that's what I just told you. So instead of using Jesus Christ and saying Jeebus Cripes... isn't that essentially the same?

*sigh* I don't even know how to explain what I mean here crying

They did not change it like that, they invented completly different words to express what they were feeling towards different things that occured..

I give up sweatdrop

I do know what you mean. If something startles me, I usually make an unintelligible single-syllabled noise. Personally I think that is instinctual and carries over from primal times. Many animals make a noise when startled. To go as far as to have to have something to say to express extreme shock or disbelief or something just shows to me a lack of self-control or an inability to express one's feelings appropriately.

But the logic you seem to be using, even that little noise expresses the same thing as any words you might be utter. The same intent is there.

It was inferred that the unintelligible noise-reaction is not the same thing as finding something blasphemous to say to convey whatever feelings one might be feeling after the fact.  

[Ixor Firebadger]

Priestley

Ixor-san

Priestley

LadyAbiel

Xandris

Because the words themselves don't really matter, it's the intent. If I told you to go lick a doorknob in the same tone as telling you to stick something somewhere anatomically painful, the meaning isn't lost. It's just the words that are different. And you know what? You'd get just as mad at me for the doorknob comment as the sticking it comment, because, in essence, that's what I just told you. So instead of using Jesus Christ and saying Jeebus Cripes... isn't that essentially the same?

*sigh* I don't even know how to explain what I mean here crying

They did not change it like that, they invented completly different words to express what they were feeling towards different things that occured..

I give up sweatdrop

I do know what you mean. If something startles me, I usually make an unintelligible single-syllabled noise. Personally I think that is instinctual and carries over from primal times. Many animals make a noise when startled. To go as far as to have to have something to say to express extreme shock or disbelief or something just shows to me a lack of self-control or an inability to express one's feelings appropriately.

But the logic you seem to be using, even that little noise expresses the same thing as any words you might be utter. The same intent is there.

It was inferred that the unintelligible noise-reaction is not the same thing as finding something blasphemous to say to convey whatever feelings one might be feeling after the fact.

The thing is, I fail to understand how it's really different. There is no less self-control involved in yelping when one smashes their finger with a hammer and, actually, I think it shows more to have the presence of mind to actually use words to express pain/shock/surprise. It also shows more of an ability to communicate one's feelings than wordless sounds.

Though, the idea of the curse, or replacement for, being premeditated is something that might be more convincing. wink  

[Priestley]

Ixor-san

Priestley

Ixor-san

Priestley

LadyAbiel

*sigh* I don't even know how to explain what I mean here crying

They did not change it like that, they invented completly different words to express what they were feeling towards different things that occured..

I give up sweatdrop

I do know what you mean. If something startles me, I usually make an unintelligible single-syllabled noise. Personally I think that is instinctual and carries over from primal times. Many animals make a noise when startled. To go as far as to have to have something to say to express extreme shock or disbelief or something just shows to me a lack of self-control or an inability to express one's feelings appropriately.

But the logic you seem to be using, even that little noise expresses the same thing as any words you might be utter. The same intent is there.

It was inferred that the unintelligible noise-reaction is not the same thing as finding something blasphemous to say to convey whatever feelings one might be feeling after the fact.

The thing is, I fail to understand how it's really different. There is no less self-control involved in yelping when one smashes their finger with a hammer and, actually, I think it shows more to have the presence of mind to actually use words to express pain/shock/surprise. It also shows more of an ability to communicate one's feelings than wordless sounds.

A yelp or growl or whatever animalistic noise one makes is an appropriately measured response after hitting one's own finger with a hammer. It is a natural response beyond any measure of self-control. Appealing to God, or whatever vain phrase one might utter after the fact, is an exaggerated response. Not saying it is within one's self-control. It is my view that "saying [something] in vain" has a wide definition which includes exaggerating something as much as it does making light of something.

Ixor-san

Though, the idea of the curse, or replacement for, being premeditated is something that might be more convincing. wink

If whatever is said is premeditated, it should occur to the person whether or not they will blaspheme by what they say. It's all part of the thought process.  

[Xandris]

Priestley

A yelp or growl or whatever animalistic noise one makes is an appropriately measured response after hitting one's own finger with a hammer. It is a natural response beyond any measure of self-control. Appealing to God, or whatever vain phrase one might utter after the fact, is an exaggerated response.

Although... deep down, some human response is to cry to God (whatever form he may take) whenever we're in pain or trouble. It could be that even the smallest of these troubles, as in your aforementioned example, could be enough to bring out that unconscious cry and make it verbal, even though by the time it reaches consciousness it's been fed through the anger/frustration filters and comes out as a curse rather than a call for help.

Or so says the philosopher-psychologist who wants to play devil's advocate for a few posts. mrgreen  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

The only reason we cry out at all is to elicit help from other members of our clan/group. That's why babies cry. That's why we yell "Ow!" when we hit our toe on a desk. In the case of fear or the startle reflex, it might be an adaptive self-defense mechanism- making a loud noise, or a gasp (which sounds similar to a hiss if you think about it), in order to scare the potential predator that is attacking us away. Anger and aggression are related, and way back when, anger was useful to employ when fighting an enemy over food, shelter, or mates. Hence why we shout when we're mad.

The need to say/shout/cry something is programmed into us, and isn't going away any time soon. Since our brains are advanced enough to use language, we use phrases instead of just sounds to express our pain, anger, and fear. But having such advanced brains makes us more responsible for the things that come out of our mouth, since it is those things that defile us (Matthew 15:11).

Though, I really want to know why swearing is so satisfying. I haven't heard of any studies done on swearing and its relation to it just feeling good to swear in some situations as opposed to just saying nonsense words.  

[Priestley]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Though, I really want to know why swearing is so satisfying. I haven't heard of any studies done on swearing and its relation to it just feeling good to swear in some situations as opposed to just saying nonsense words.

I'm not sure. I think it's the combination of knowing the obscenity of the word, the defiance of cultural authority/norms and the encapsulation of the emotions and sensations at the time that triggers the release of feel-good hormones.  

[Xandris]

Priestley

Fushigi na Butterfly

Though, I really want to know why swearing is so satisfying. I haven't heard of any studies done on swearing and its relation to it just feeling good to swear in some situations as opposed to just saying nonsense words.

I'm not sure. I think it's the combination of knowing the obscenity of the word, the defiance of cultural authority/norms and the encapsulation of the emotions and sensations at the time that triggers the release of feel-good hormones.

^ Something like that. You know that those are angry words, and using them to express your anger feels better than being angry and having to say something else instead, because then you're not letting ALL of your anger out.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

But why are curse words so much more effective at releasing anger than any other words? One day, I will know the answer to this. 3nodding  

[Galad Aglaron]

I'd say it's a social thing. I'm rather prim when it comes to proper language, so if I drop a heavy weight on my foot, I usually go, "AW FFFFFFF....Forodwaith!"

In J. R. R. Tolkien's fictional universe of Middle-earth, Forodwaith was the name both of a region and the people that lived there.  

[Priestley]

Fushigi na Butterfly

But why are curse words so much more effective at releasing anger than any other words? One day, I will know the answer to this. 3nodding

Didn't we just answer that?

It's to do with understanding meanings of words, how we identify those words and the emotional response from that identification. It's like if I said to you that we'd be going shopping, you'd get excited, right? biggrin  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Priestley

Fushigi na Butterfly

But why are curse words so much more effective at releasing anger than any other words? One day, I will know the answer to this. 3nodding

Didn't we just answer that?

It's to do with understanding meanings of words, how we identify those words and the emotional response from that identification. It's like if I said to you that we'd be going shopping, you'd get excited, right? biggrin

I mean the physiological reason why. What power does the f-bomb have over releasing whatever chemicals it releases that fiddlesticks or fuddyduddy doesn't? Your guess is good, but it's just a single hypothesis, and I have the feeling the answer isn't as simple as that.  

[Priestley]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Priestley

Fushigi na Butterfly

But why are curse words so much more effective at releasing anger than any other words? One day, I will know the answer to this. 3nodding

Didn't we just answer that?

It's to do with understanding meanings of words, how we identify those words and the emotional response from that identification. It's like if I said to you that we'd be going shopping, you'd get excited, right? biggrin

I mean the physiological reason why. What power does the f-bomb have over releasing whatever chemicals it releases that fiddlesticks or fuddyduddy doesn't? Your guess is good, but it's just a single hypothesis, and I have the feeling the answer isn't as simple as that.

Because it's socially more acceptable to say fiddlesticks and fuddyduddy. The risk of being socially shunned is lower, thus the physiological reward is reduced for getting away with saying it. Besides, fiddlesticks and fuddyduddy don't evoke the same imagery as the f-bomb, so it's expected that they don't have the same effect as the f-bomb on the imagination and expression of emotion.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Priestley

Fushigi na Butterfly

Priestley

Fushigi na Butterfly

But why are curse words so much more effective at releasing anger than any other words? One day, I will know the answer to this. 3nodding

Didn't we just answer that?

It's to do with understanding meanings of words, how we identify those words and the emotional response from that identification. It's like if I said to you that we'd be going shopping, you'd get excited, right? biggrin

I mean the physiological reason why. What power does the f-bomb have over releasing whatever chemicals it releases that fiddlesticks or fuddyduddy doesn't? Your guess is good, but it's just a single hypothesis, and I have the feeling the answer isn't as simple as that.

Because it's socially more acceptable to say fiddlesticks and fuddyduddy. The risk of being socially shunned is lower, thus the physiological reward is reduced for getting away with saying it. Besides, fiddlesticks and fuddyduddy don't evoke the same imagery as the f-bomb, so it's expected that they don't have the same effect as the f-bomb on the imagination and expression of emotion.

-sigh- Well, we can't argue this anymore in here- we're getting off-topic. sweatdrop  

[Priestley]

Fushigi na Butterfly

Priestley

Fushigi na Butterfly

Priestley

Fushigi na Butterfly

But why are curse words so much more effective at releasing anger than any other words? One day, I will know the answer to this. 3nodding

Didn't we just answer that?

It's to do with understanding meanings of words, how we identify those words and the emotional response from that identification. It's like if I said to you that we'd be going shopping, you'd get excited, right? biggrin

I mean the physiological reason why. What power does the f-bomb have over releasing whatever chemicals it releases that fiddlesticks or fuddyduddy doesn't? Your guess is good, but it's just a single hypothesis, and I have the feeling the answer isn't as simple as that.

Because it's socially more acceptable to say fiddlesticks and fuddyduddy. The risk of being socially shunned is lower, thus the physiological reward is reduced for getting away with saying it. Besides, fiddlesticks and fuddyduddy don't evoke the same imagery as the f-bomb, so it's expected that they don't have the same effect as the f-bomb on the imagination and expression of emotion.

-sigh- Well, we can't argue this anymore in here- we're getting off-topic. sweatdrop

Well, I could wheelydeal back to the definition of 'in vain'. If it indeed means 'without purpose', then surely curse words can't be 'in vain', because their purpose is to express feeling/emotion more accurately than a replacement word.  

[Xandris]

Priestley

Well, I could wheelydeal back to the definition of 'in vain'. If it indeed means 'without purpose', then surely curse words can't be 'in vain', because their purpose is to express feeling/emotion more accurately than a replacement word.

The man speaks truth. xd