Hypocrisies in the gothic community?

[GilAskan]

doom1000

so... am i really the only one who dont give a s**t about what people listen to? if its only about the music, are we then any better than the more mainstream? isnt goth more about taking a stand against mainstream and to be honest toward yourself?

soory, this may not be the right place to ask this, but i have allways had a hard time understanding that "you are only goth if you listen to bauhaus" thing.... i allways believed that goth was more than just music....

Sounds to me like you're projecting a romantic ideal on a subculture which, ultimately, has always been about the music. There isn't anything shallow about it, it just is what it is. Goth has no goal, no ideal, no big idea, no unified beliefs. It's a subculture of people who like the same kinds of music, and often (though, not explicitly) have other common interests, whether they be interests in film, literature, lifestyle, fashion, humor, philosophy, politics, religion, or otherwise.  

[Henneth Annun]

doom1000

so... am i really the only one who dont give a s**t about what people listen to? if its only about the music, are we then any better than the more mainstream? isnt goth more about taking a stand against mainstream and to be honest toward yourself?

soory, this may not be the right place to ask this, but i have allways had a hard time understanding that "you are only goth if you listen to bauhaus" thing.... i allways believed that goth was more than just music....

The point isn't to be "better" than anyone, this subculture is based around music. Everything else that you see in it comes from the similar personalities of people inside the subcultures.

It's not about "taking a stand against the mainstream" and being "honest" to yourself. Plenty of people do that every day but I wouldn't call them goth. And for some people, being honest to themselves is being part of the mainstream culture. Anyone can be honest to themselves, rap or pop, rock or hip hop, there are people who are honest to themsevles. What I think you mean to ask is if the Goth culture puts more value on individuality.

You can believe what you want to believe, go ahead. (I'm not trying to say I agree but not that I disagree either.) If Goth has a deeper meaning for you than just the music, that's great. We just want to let you know that the only real requirment for Gothness is that you listen to the music. It's not specifically about certain things but if that's what your personally put out of the culture, great.  

[The Evil Rabbit]

AEtherclaw

doom1000

Dark_Style

I had people like this in high school. They were fat anime nerds that dresses in black and listened to manson. rolleyes I thought since they were the closest thing to real goth at this school I'd talk to them. I did and one said: "Who the ******** is Bauhaus? Your a ******** poser, get the ******** out of here".

fat and like anime = fine by me
dress in black and listens to manson = fine by me
dont know bauhaus = fine by me
calling somebody a poser because they dont listen to the same music as they do = they are no better than the ignorant "omg-she's-a-vampire" preps...

dont have to be mean about it but if someone claims to be goth and doesn't even know who Bauhaus is the technically they are a poseur. that's when you find out what they do listen to and recommend the most similar goth bands.

I wouldn't necessarily jump the gun and automatically call them a poser, but according to my own personal point of view, for someone to claim him/herself as part of "Subculture X" without at least being somewhat knowledgeable and involved in it is rather lame. In this case, "Subculture X" happens to be goth, but you can subsitute it for just about any other subculture. It doesn't matter if you visibly fit the image of that subculture and/or simply claim you are a part of it. You have to be knowledgeable about it and participate in it. Goth, from the point of view of those (including myself) who see it as a musically driven subculture, that means being familiar with that genre of music and being a fan of it. Granted, there are also other artistic elements that have been adopted into the subculture including fasion, artwork, literature, etc, and a lot of people also argue that it's about having a certain state of mind. However, the goth movement did originally start out as a musical development. At least from my point of view, the musical aspect is primary while everything else is secondary to that.

Well, enough of my rambling. Hopefully that made some sense. Still waiting for the caffeine to kick in and wake me up. whee  

[doom1000]

The Evil Rabbit

AEtherclaw

doom1000

Dark_Style

I had people like this in high school. They were fat anime nerds that dresses in black and listened to manson. rolleyes I thought since they were the closest thing to real goth at this school I'd talk to them. I did and one said: "Who the ******** is Bauhaus? Your a ******** poser, get the ******** out of here".

fat and like anime = fine by me
dress in black and listens to manson = fine by me
dont know bauhaus = fine by me
calling somebody a poser because they dont listen to the same music as they do = they are no better than the ignorant "omg-she's-a-vampire" preps...

dont have to be mean about it but if someone claims to be goth and doesn't even know who Bauhaus is the technically they are a poseur. that's when you find out what they do listen to and recommend the most similar goth bands.

I wouldn't necessarily jump the gun and automatically call them a poser, but according to my own personal point of view, for someone to claim him/herself as part of "Subculture X" without at least being somewhat knowledgeable and involved in it is rather lame. In this case, "Subculture X" happens to be goth, but you can subsitute it for just about any other subculture. It doesn't matter if you visibly fit the image of that subculture and/or simply claim you are a part of it. You have to be knowledgeable about it and participate in it. Goth, from the point of view of those (including myself) who see it as a musically driven subculture, that means being familiar with that genre of music and being a fan of it. Granted, there are also other artistic elements that have been adopted into the subculture including fasion, artwork, literature, etc, and a lot of people also argue that it's about having a certain state of mind. However, the goth movement did originally start out as a musical development. At least from my point of view, the musical aspect is primary while everything else is secondary to that.

Well, enough of my rambling. Hopefully that made some sense. Still waiting for the caffeine to kick in and wake me up. whee

I have a friend. He calls himself goth. He dont know bauhaus, but loves black metal and industrial metal alot. Some people in here might call him a poser, but fact is that he (and me also) participate in the local goth community, and have done so for some years now....  

[broken_joker]

I think the biggest problem is the decline in standards for goth. Before it left the UK or even Europe, everyone knew the difference between posers and goths - even the posers knew they were posers.

Then it hit the US and suddenly it all became about wearing black, listening to one type of music only and looking moody. And to be honest, the real Goths in Europe are getting tired of it.

I think Goth needs to look back to it's roots, get a bit of perspective, grow a backbone, make it clear what Goth is so the posers know they're not Goth and most of all change the image it has with the media.

BTW doom1000, your friend sounds a little more metal than goth, but it shouldn't really make a difference because goth and metalheads tend to stick together and a lot of people have a heard time telling them apart...at least in the UK.  

[InnisTheMirageOfDeceit]

Kay......I'm gonna go slightly off topic. I don't get made fun of by other goths at my school because, to put it simply, I'm the only one. I'm not joking. I am the only goth in my entire school. How the hell did I manage that? Simple, it's a small school and I'm in a small town. Not many individauls.............I'm also the "new girl." everybody else has known each other since like, preschool or something. I get stared at constantly like some painting on display at the museum...

It's been four months into school now and what I wanna know is why are they still staring? They still act like I'll bite their heads off if they say Hello! Well, Steffy, Sara and Han-chan haven't which makes them the most terrific people there. But seriously, they look at me as if they think I can't tell they're staring and whisper when I'm sitting right there.

I also get the most ridiculous questions like:
1. Are you a satanist?
NO. I'm wiccan.
2. Do you cut yourself?
No. Self mutilation is a serious mental problem which I don't have. I do however, write on myself with markers.
3. Are you depressed?
No. I'm a fairly happy person and sometimes I get really hyper.
4. Are you poor?
What does my choice of fashion have to do with my family's financial standing?
5. Are you on drugs.
No. Unless you count pepsi as a drug because I drink it quite a bit.
6. Did you lose a bet?
No. I don't gamble.
7. Are you mentally retarded?
Okay, seriously now. I'm not kidding, I got asked this question. I have them a firm "******** no."
8. Are you a lesbian?
What does my sexual orientation have to do with the way I dress? But if you must know, I'm bisexual.
9. Do you hate everybody and everything?
No. I like a lot of things. I'm not going to list them cause it would be a very long list.
10. Why don't you want to be popular?
Easy! I'd rather be hated for who I am than loved for who I'm not. And Seriously, I don't care what my social standing is because I perfer being myself.  

[-Resurrected Writer-]

broken_joker

I think the biggest problem is the decline in standards for goth. Before it left the UK or even Europe, everyone knew the difference between posers and goths - even the posers knew they were posers.

Then it hit the US and suddenly it all became about wearing black, listening to one type of music only and looking moody. And to be honest, the real Goths in Europe are getting tired of it.

I think Goth needs to look back to it's roots, get a bit of perspective, grow a backbone, make it clear what Goth is so the posers know they're not Goth and most of all change the image it has with the media.

BTW doom1000, your friend sounds a little more metal than goth, but it shouldn't really make a difference because goth and metalheads tend to stick together and a lot of people have a heard time telling them apart...at least in the UK.

@Bold: I don't think anyone ever said it had to be only one type of music. neutral
Music is an integral part of the scene, much like music is integral to punk, metal, hip-hop, etc. But it's not like members of such scenes are strictly forced to not appreciate other genres.  

[osozaki girl]

mostly it's the image thing that people look down on me for.
or my interests.

most of the people who are considered "goth" don't consider me one because i wear jeans, sometimes wear light/not-"goth" colors, and not interested in anime or vampires, and also have an interest in other music and styles. (and my hair is brown...)

but they aren't my friends anyway. i don't need them, i have people who love me for who i am.  

[doom1000]

broken_joker

I think the biggest problem is the decline in standards for goth. Before it left the UK or even Europe, everyone knew the difference between posers and goths - even the posers knew they were posers.

Then it hit the US and suddenly it all became about wearing black, listening to one type of music only and looking moody. And to be honest, the real Goths in Europe are getting tired of it.

I think Goth needs to look back to it's roots, get a bit of perspective, grow a backbone, make it clear what Goth is so the posers know they're not Goth and most of all change the image it has with the media.

BTW doom1000, your friend sounds a little more metal than goth, but it shouldn't really make a difference because goth and metalheads tend to stick together and a lot of people have a heard time telling them apart...at least in the UK.

so far that is the response that have made most sense. Maybe i should mention that im also from europe. Denmark in my case