Snape: Good or Evil?

[Panda Chi]

[Ernie]

Minari

Quote:

Its like the Harmonians looking too deeply into the friendship between Harry and Hermione.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

I believe the word you are looking for is "resent".

I'm assuming she was joking.

 

[Aci Dixinic]

Hmmm, I should do that.
I'll be like,
"Hey, you have such bad England." And they'll be like,
"What?"
But probably not. Everyone's heard of that one.
I will keep my eyes peeled for an oppotunity to use my ironic grammatical hypocrisy. Fun.

But anyway, back on topic. My sister just re-read HBP and she says that there is no doubt whatsoever in her mind that Snape is still on their side. She says the main thing that gets her is Snape looking down at Dumbledore with revulsion in his eyes, and even if he did hate Dumbledore that is a strange emotion for him to feel. She reckons the only explanation is that the revulsion is for what he has to do.
I have to admit, this is the main flaw in my argument for Snape being a fence-sitter. My theory suggests that he is coldly analytical and would be unlikely to feel such a strong emotion. Mind you, it must be hard to murder the one person in the world who really trusts you. Maybe his heart and his head were fighting on this, and his head won; we know already that he is good at suppressing his emotions, otherwise he would suck at Occlumency like Harry does.
Hang on, another argument for the revulsion is that it was for Dumbledore's pleading. Not long after he kills Dumbledore we see his reaction to being called a coward by Harry; he obviously doesn't like cowards. So if Dumbledore was indeed pleading for his life and not his death, Snape could percieve it as a cowardly thing to do, and it would make sense for Snape to be disgusted and repulsed. Maybe thats what tipped the balance.
wink wink wink
Hmmm? *Nudges* What d'ya think?  

[flying_wings]

For the revulsion and hatred etched on Snape's face, Harry shows pretty much the same emotions when force feeding the potion to Dumbledore. Those emotions represent the vast amount reluctance to do a certain task. Harry kept on questioning Dumbledore drinking the potion, so I would think that Snape would have similar queries.  

[Aci Dixinic]

Most of the arguments we give can be twisted either way. The only way we will ever know for sure is when Jo gives us the final book.  

[SweetMelissa]

I've only had one thing to say on the subject of Snape's loyalty since finishing HBP, and I'm sticking by it:

I do not care to hazard a guess.

I really like not knowing for sure, and not choosing a side for him leaves me no chance of disappointment in the last book. I just refuse to pick on this debate.  

[Aci Dixinic]

Wow. I admire your determination. I have to wonder about Snape; I just can't help it. But its good to have someone in the Guild who shall be an unquestioning rock in the swirling waters of our debates. razz
Okay. It was a bad metaphor. Leave me alone. cry  

[Joie D]

I lean toward Snape is evil, but I don't really have a positive opinion either way. I like arguing both sides, and I'll be happy when I finally know the truth.  

[Aci Dixinic]

The fence-sitter theory which I was convinced of for two whole days has now gone and I am wavering towards him not knowing what he was promising to do with the U. Vow. Bella taught Draco to Legilimens/Occlumens, didn't she? Which means she, and Narcissa, probably knew some of their own. If Snape couldn't read their minds, and neither of them actually said what the plan was, and Snape tried to ask Draco about it later... He was bluffing all along. In my mind. So the question is, did he decide when he finally realised what it was that he would rather live? Or did Dumbledore tell him about it and go "Save yourself."?
Oh the uncertainty.  

[Basil Musible]

Acidic Cynic

The fence-sitter theory which I was convinced of for two whole days has now gone and I am wavering towards him not knowing what he was promising to do with the U. Vow. Bella taught Draco to Legilimens/Occlumens, didn't she? Which means she, and Narcissa, probably knew some of their own. If Snape couldn't read their minds, and neither of them actually said what the plan was, and Snape tried to ask Draco about it later... He was bluffing all along. In my mind. So the question is, did he decide when he finally realised what it was that he would rather live? Or did Dumbledore tell him about it and go "Save yourself."?
Oh the uncertainty.

Hmmm I haven't heard that one yet. It would seem very Snape of Snape to pretend he knows what's going on. I just re-read Spinner's End to see what I think about this theory. Its possible is all I can come up with at the moment. The chapter really makes me think about how much Snape was attatched to his mother, he seems so affected by Narcissa pleading and sobbing because of Draco which is odd because he doesn't show those kinds of emotions often.  

[CaptainJames]

Panda Chi

Actually, I thought the pheonixes developed rather fast...? Anyway, none of that answers my question, how would Fawkes even know what was happening to Dumbledore? Dumbledore was supposed to be getting the Hurcrux. And if Fawkes did know that Dumbledore was back, he probably didn't know that he was hurt and would assume Dumbledore could take care of himself.

This may be a bit of a stretch, but how did Fawkes know Harry was in trouble in the CoS? Wasn't it because Harry did something loyal to Dumbledore that Fawkes showed up (Or was that pulling out the sword, it's been a while...)? Now, true, no one did anything loyal to Dumbledore, I guess, although we don't know quite enough about the situation to say that for sure (i.e. was Snape being loyal or not?), but it certainly seems as though Fawkes has an unusual relationship with Dumbeldore, which includes Fawkes knowing things which affect or are related to Dumbledore, even rather remotely. I just don't see him lolling around the office without realizing the danger at all. Of course, maybe I just missed a big chunk of CoS plot or something. I admit, I don't have any of the books unpacked.

EDIT: Yeah, I see now that [Ernie] already brought that up.  

[CaptainJames]

Panda Chi

[Ernie]

Minari

Quote:

Its like the Harmonians looking too deeply into the friendship between Harry and Hermione.

Hey! I resemble that remark!

I believe the word you are looking for is "resent".

I'm assuming she was joking.

It's an old joke, from loony tunes, right? That chicken guy... My dad says that all the time. Ho ho ho.  

[David FTW]

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[Aci Dixinic]

Um.
I guess that could be what he's been doing.
Anyway, the cool thing about my current theory - the Snape bluffing theory - is that it doesn't say whether he is good or evil.
If he was good: he would be bluffing to find out the information to pass it on to Dumbledore, and taking the Vow was a calculated risk because he didn't know what he was agreeing to. He told Dumbledore he took it and neither of them knew what the plan was but agreed to go through with it whatever it was, to keep Snape's cover, save Malfoy's life etc. and Dumbledore pleading at the end was just a sort of private message, confirmation to go through with it. (There are a few minor possible variations that could be right, but thats basically it).
If he was bad: He went along with it because he was bad anyway and maybe getting tired of his cover so he figured why not? Also he might have been touched by Narcissa's plea for her son as people are suggesting. Although he didn't know what he was getting himself in for, and he might have been surprised on finding out he was supposed to kill Dumbledore, but he put too much value on his own life to die for Dumbledore, who pissed him off for so long denying him the DADA job and being nice to Harry and not expelling Sirius etc.
(Again, there can be a few different ways for it to happen but that is a main one.)  

[RAB1D RABB1T]

Panda Chi

It would be hard to kill someone who truely trusts you no matter what kind of person you are (well, unless you're Voldemort, but he's kind of... minus soul... >.>).

Has Voldemort ever killed anyone who truely trusts him? Dumbledore took Voldemort in at Hogwarts when he was young, even though he knew how he was, controlling people, using magic for evil. He trusted Voldemort to come to the school. Has Voldemort, himself, ever tried to kill Dumbledore?


As for Snape being Good or Evil, I'm not sure what I think. At first it was all about Snape being good, just because Dumbledore had trusted him. Then I got to thinking, after reading the book a couple more times, I noticed how Dumbledore mentions often that he is only human and can make mistakes just like anyone else. Maybe, he made a mistake on whether to trust Snape or not. So, maybe Snape is evil.  

[Tsukiko_Sora]

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