Project: Religion Slut

[Autumnal Light]

TeaDidikai

mute_coyote

So, I wasn't ever really planning/expecting anything to happen with the whole Mormon thing. I mean, I think the missionaries are a bit pushy, and the church requires a lot of time commitment.

But, that whole "burning in the bosom" thing? Well, I think I got that.

Huh...

Test it. wink Same thing I would say about any divine revelation really.

If it turns out to be verified- check to see how much of the doctrine of the church matches up with the way the Holy Spirit moves you.

Any suggestions on how I'd go about testing it? What comes to mind for me is simply more reading/praying. The only other option offered by the missionaries thus far has been baptism, and I'd kind of like an intermediate step before I go jumping into the pool.

The tricky bit is that I do have some issues with the doctrine. For example, there is definitely a heterocentric vibe going on there, which I kinda take issue with.

My missionaries told me that they want an answer regarding my potential Oct. 25th baptism by Friday. I'm prolly going to say I need more time. Don't want to go making covenants with Yahweh until I'm sure.  

[TeaDidikai]

mute_coyote

Any suggestions on how I'd go about testing it?

What conditions did you experience it to begin with?

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I'd kind of like an intermediate step before I go jumping into the pool.

I don't think you're allowed to jump. I think you have to walk into it via steps.

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The tricky bit is that I do have some issues with the doctrine. For example, there is definitely a heterocentric vibe going on there, which I kinda take issue with.

Might ask for confirmation or rejection on that in your prayers as well.

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My missionaries told me that they want an answer regarding my potential Oct. 25th baptism by Friday. I'm prolly going to say I need more time. Don't want to go making covenants with Yahweh until I'm sure.

"I need more time" is an answer.  

[Tsuzuki]

mute_coyote

The tricky bit is that I do have some issues with the doctrine. For example, there is definitely a heterocentric vibe going on there, which I kinda take issue with.

This may be of interest to you.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O27OGb2HhLg  

[Autumnal Light]

TeaDidikai

mute_coyote

Any suggestions on how I'd go about testing it?

What conditions did you experience it to begin with?

When hearing the missionaries read the scriptures and when singing in the choir. Oddly, I didn't get any such feelings when I watched General Conference. The fact that I was watching people via TV in that case rather than interacting directly strikes me as potentially significant.

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I'd kind of like an intermediate step before I go jumping into the pool.

I don't think you're allowed to jump. I think you have to walk into it via steps.

Huh. I guess my brilliant idea for a cannonball baptism is out, then.

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The tricky bit is that I do have some issues with the doctrine. For example, there is definitely a heterocentric vibe going on there, which I kinda take issue with.

Might ask for confirmation or rejection on that in your prayers as well.

I'll add it to my list of things to pray about. mrgreen

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My missionaries told me that they want an answer regarding my potential Oct. 25th baptism by Friday. I'm prolly going to say I need more time. Don't want to go making covenants with Yahweh until I'm sure.

"I need more time" is an answer.

So my friends tell me. ^_^ It bothers me that the missionaries don't think it's a very good one. Meh. I know I shouldn't let that get to me.  

[Autumnal Light]

Tsuzuki

mute_coyote

The tricky bit is that I do have some issues with the doctrine. For example, there is definitely a heterocentric vibe going on there, which I kinda take issue with.

This may be of interest to you.

]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O27OGb2HhLg

Thanks. That vid was really helpful for me. I liked his ideas about how the most important theme is that God loves you, and everything else is mostly details. I also liked what he mentioned at the end about how he didn't care whether the Book of Mormon was historical or not, because either way it still resonated with him.

Of course, I could take those things to heart and still not be Mormon. I'll have to check out more of the videos by mormonstories.  

[Tsuzuki]

mute_coyote

Of course, I could take those things to heart and still not be Mormon. I'll have to check out more of the videos by mormonstories.

"Mormon" is just a label, and an inaccurate one at that. In reality, no one is a Mormon except for the mytho-historical figure who edited the book which bears his name. The difference between a member and a non-member is one of relationship, not identity. No matter what you decide to do, you will always be yourself.

Take this from someone with simultaneous active membership in two seemingly mutually exclusive religious organizations.  

[TeaDidikai]

mute_coyote

When hearing the missionaries read the scriptures and when singing in the choir. Oddly, I didn't get any such feelings when I watched General Conference. The fact that I was watching people via TV in that case rather than interacting directly strikes me as potentially significant.

Try placing yourself in a different hyper-religious situation and see if you resonate in the same way.

Ask within the LDS setting who is invoking the feeling and double check with them.

Place yourself in a solitary hyper-religious state and confirm who spoke to you before through questioning.

Ask about contradictions between different elements of ideology inside and outside of personal understandings.

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Huh. I guess my brilliant idea for a cannonball baptism is out, then.

They must have deeper pools where you are. sweatdrop

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So my friends tell me. ^_^ It bothers me that the missionaries don't think it's a very good one. Meh. I know I shouldn't let that get to me.

My usual response to that kind of thing is "Would you rather I profane your rite by doing it half heartedly without the sincere reverence and desire to know god?"  

[Tsuzuki]

TeaDidikai

Try placing yourself in a different hyper-religious situation and see if you resonate in the same way.

Keep in mind that there is room in the Mormon paradigm for truth outside of its borders. I personally resonate equally with Mormonism, Catholicism, modern occultism, and the Rinzai sect of Zen Buddhism, and this is all within the parameters of Mormonism itself (however liberally interpreted).

TeaDidikai

Place yourself in a solitary hyper-religious state and confirm who spoke to you before through questioning.

This is ideally how it's supposed to go in Mormonism. Find someplace with zero distractions and listen to your unclouded inner voice. This is somewhat analogous to conversing with one's Holy Guardian Angel.  

[Deoridhe]

mute_coyote

Any suggestions on how I'd go about testing it? What comes to mind for me is simply more reading/praying. The only other option offered by the missionaries thus far has been baptism, and I'd kind of like an intermediate step before I go jumping into the pool.

Going to other religious holy spaces might be a good choice, too. That's easiest within the three book religions, but there may be Hindu temples around to.

As a point of reference, I "respond" to most churches and holy sites, but that doesn't make me of those religions; I think there is a difference in the ground I can feel, somehow, which transmits itself to me. You may be in a similar space, only with people instead of land.  

[Autumnal Light]

So, lots and lots of reflection later I've come to a few conclusions.

First of all, the feeling in my chest I was experiencing felt rather like a sense of gravity or weightiness, and may have stemmed from the intensity of the missionaries commitment that they expressed around me. It may also stem from a sense of expectation, like I know I'm expected to feel something and anticipation creates a sensation of its own. It hasn't been a consistent thing. When I went to a religious concert with the missionaries and some others from the church, I was told it should be a "testimony-building experience." Well, the singing was certainly impressive and enjoyable, but I didn't feel anything aside from the usual feeling of having listened to good music. I can think of a few similar examples, but I'll leave it at that one for brevity's sake.

Secondly, I don't think the Christian model of deity and matches my own very well. The most natural way for me to think about "god" is to think about plants, rocks, wind, space, and stars and how all of them are interconnected. Like, maybe "god" is simply the state of interconnection between all things? Bleh. My skills at explanation suck right now. In any case, the idea of a single supreme architect of the universe just seems weird to me, and trying to pray to said architect hasn't really changed that.

Additionally, anything religious I got into would probably wind up with nature woven tightly into it (whether or not that's the norm for said religion) simply because I'm so drawn to that kind of stuff. I find the most fascination, wonder, and fulfillment in being outdoors and observing and interacting with plants, animals, and landscapes - particularly those not excessively modified by humans.

Finally, I like the idea of integrating ritual into whatever practice I wind up in. Before I came back to college, I cut my thumb and left a drop of blood out in the desert. I'd had the odd desire to do so for a long time, and the experience, which I ritualized in a semi-spontaneous fashion, was startlingly fulfilling. I've seen some definite benefits from it, and it's given me the desire to try other ritual-like religious experiences sometime.

Umm... Yeah. There's my infodump. I'm open to various thoughts and suggestions.  

[Tsuzuki]

mute_coyote

Secondly, I don't think the Christian model of deity and matches my own very well. The most natural way for me to think about "god" is to think about plants, rocks, wind, space, and stars and how all of them are interconnected.

Mormonism is closer to this view than it is to the mainstream Christian view. In Mormonism, everything, from rocks, trees, rivers, and mountains, to the Earth and stars, has a spirit and degree of consciousness relative to its nature.

mute_coyote

Like, maybe "god" is simply the state of interconnection between all things? Bleh. My skills at explanation suck right now.

"So that if any affirm a 'universal Intelligence,' or 'Cosmic Mind,' or 'Over Soul,' in the universe, it is an influence, a power proceeding either from an individual Intelligence or from harmonized individual Intelligences, a mind atmosphere proceeding from them--a projection of their mind power into the universe, as the sun and all suns, project light and warmth into the universe."

- B. H. Roberts, Seventy's Course In Theology

mute_coyote

In any case, the idea of a single supreme architect of the universe just seems weird to me, and trying to pray to said architect hasn't really changed that.

Mormons don't pray to the supreme architect of the universe, they pray to their immediate Father in Heaven. Mormonism holds that we had an existence prior to being born here, and there is one school of thought which holds that we all had a hand in the creation, as well.  

[Autumnal Light]

So, I had this personal experience a while back that, while not explicitly religious, was very intensely spiritual. I've been having trouble figuring out if there were any close parallels to it in other religions I might check out, so I figured I'd post it here to see if I could get any suggestions from those with more experience than I, or at least, experience in different areas.

For a long time, I'd had this urge to leave some of my blood out in the sagebrush steppe near my house. There were a lot of reasons why that I could articulate, and a few more that I still don't quite know how to articulate. The reason that usually came through clearest was the desire to bind myself to the land I loved so much, to break down some of the borders between myself and that land.

The idea stewed in the back of my mind until just a few days before I was to return to college. I hiked to the top of a hill near my house with an awesome view of the surrounding cities and steppe, said something spontaneous that might have counted as a prayer, cut my thumb, and pressed it against a sagebrush skeleton clinging to the ground to leave some of my blood behind. Then, I sprinkled some dust over the blood and walked away.

My feelings afterward can best be described as elation and pride. I hung out on the hill for a bit before heading back down. I had a few small personal epiphanies as I walked home and definitely felt like I was closer to being an adult than I had been before (which was a very cool bonus since that's something I've had issues with).

So, yeah... I figured I might try using this experience as a guide to help me find other fulfilling practices. A few of the elements that stand out to me as particularly important are the involvement of nature and the psychological strain and catharsis resulting from the difficult journey and bloodletting.