Welcome to Gaia! ::

Adoption there is always adoption hun and if I had run into such a case myself I would have adopted the child out. Granted it would have been hard but I would have done so knowing it was the right thing for my child. 3nodding

First off, I have never had an abortion and never will. I've gone to great lengths not to be involved in pregnancy in any way. I am not capable of reproducing any longer.

In a perfect world, no one would. In a perfect world everyone would have contraception and sufficient education to use it. In a perfect world, self esteem would be too strong to let people be pressured into doing unsafe things. In a perfect world, condoms would never break or fall off in situ. In a perfect world everyone would be clean and sober during sex. In a perfect world there would be no rape or incest. In a perfect world couples would negotiate reproductive decisions calmly before it gets to the serious stage.

Guess what? We live in the real world. In the real world, the choice can be abort or be homeless. In the real world sometimes that child is so damaged it will live a short, horrible life. In the real world sometimes you hate the father or the circumstances of it's conception so much you would risk your life to get rid of it.

In the real world, the choice tends to be legal abortion, black market abortion, or infanticide. That's what happens, you see. Historically, city trash heaps where full of dead babies. Now, in poor countries with abortion and contraceptives outlawed, parents starve the extra children. In the real world, teenagers get kicked out for coming home pregnant.

I live in the real world. I have had friends who had to make this decision. They didn't make it lightly. Frankly? If you are capable of making this decision easily, you probably shouldn't have children. I am glad it's a decision I will never have to make for myself. I also lack the arrogance to think I should be making this decision for other people.

Why I'm against requiring partner permission:
I am imagining what that'll be like for all those women in a relationship where talking it over is an ugly option. Yes, in an ideal relationship, they'd talk it over anyway. Hands up for those of you who believe a majority of these will be ideal relationships. Anyone? Anyone? So imagine someone who just got out of something turning a little ugly and finds she's pregnant. Now she's got to go back and beg him for the right to get rid of it. Even if he was controlling or verbally abusive or he hit her. Nice. Statistically? Most pregnant teens have a boyfriend older than twenty. Imagine the already skewed power relationship there with this new lever to hold over her. what if her parents will kick her out if she turns up pregnant? This has "Recipe for Disaster" written right over it.

Yes, it's not ideal that the guy doesn't get a say, but you know what? Not his body. Sorry. Yes, it sucks that if she keeps it, he'll be having to help support it whether he wants to or not, but that still is not as horrible as forcing her to bear it and raise it and support it against her will. The risks, medical and social are all on her side while the financial ones are split, likely not evenly. There is no way he should get final say here. Sorry. No dice.

We live in the real world. Legislation must reflect that.

I choose quality of life over quantity. For a living I had to deal with the messes adults made of the lives of children they weren't prepared to raise. Ever spend all day in a room full of kids with serious damage do to parental drug and alcohol abuse trying to teach? I have. Then I got up the next morning and did it again. I've seen the mess abuse and neglect leave behind. It's not that I didn't love or care about those kids, but realistically, most of them are going to have seriously sucky lives. The statistics for generational drug and alcohol abuse are chilling as are the crime figures. The brain damage typical of FAE/FAS pretty much sets the kids up for early pregnancy/jail/addiction because it takes away the ability to understand consequences, cause and effect, and amps impulsiveness. no, not all of them end up living horrible lives, but odds are in favor that most of those kids will have trouble holding jobs and make terrible choices because of the damage. These are incredibly labour intensive children for foster care and schools and they are the ones with the least chance of succeeding in life. All that heartache, all that love, and labour and class time spent dealing with these issues, all the counselors and social workers and instructional aides could be invested instead in helping ordinary students or children who's problems are accidental and generally more remediable. Generational FAE creates a permanent underclass.

I genuinely think we'd all be a lot better off living in a society where every single child comes into the world wanted and loved with a decent chance of living a decent life. I think birth control is a huge part of that, but accidents happen. They happen more often to the young, the drunk or high, the most impulsive.

I value the quality of life for people already here over that of potential people. Yes, its harsh, but over population is causing major environmental damage. If depopulation ever becomes a major issue again, I'll rethink, but population has been rising steadily since 1400 and I think its more logical to try to improve conditions for people already alive now.

"Whenever pro-live people talk about adoption as a viable option it makes my stomach churn.
There are thousands of unwanted children in the world already. There are sick, abandoned, last survivors of families, mentally wounded, and other broken and unwanted little kids with no love and only a goverment facility to call home.
I believe that if you "really" want to make a difference in the world that you should, (instead of insisting that women go through 9 months of pregnancy along with all the risks, dangers, and long term if not permanent damage to their bodies) go out there and adopt just one unwanted child.
Take home a child that's got "no hope" of otherwise being adopted. Then you have some grounds to shout from."

The Children you talk about in this paragraph are NOT from unwanted pregnancies where the bio mom decided to give the child up to adoption. These Children are from situations where all of their family is dead no grandparents or anything, so they get put into the foster care system and usually do end up messed up because no one ever wants to adopt anything but a baby. I am one who WANTS to adopt the older children i want half my own and half adopted, however my husband does not like the idea of adopting a child, I hope that maybe he will come around some day. There is only one child he wishes to adopt and that is his niece, who I also want.

on a Side not my family has friends that were on a waiting list for a baby for more than 5 years because they didnt think they could have another one and then they were suddenly pregnant again.

I have seen, first hand, what parents can do to children they keep even if they're unwanted. I've worked with psychologically broken people. People who have severe fears of abandonment, a constant and overwhelming feeling of inadequacy, often a severe resentment towards their parents and siblings (if they have any) because often the siblings are planned while they were an accident. These are the lucky ones. The reason for the "shotgun wedding" or a similair self-created situation where either one or both parents are feeling trapped in the relationship and while they tend to take most of it out on each other, what's left is taken out on the child. Living in a warzone of a relationship where both parents (though mostly subconsciously) blame you for everything that's wrong is not a life I'd wish on my worst enemy, let alone a small child that did nothing wrong except being concieved.

You are probably getting the cases where the children were taken away from thier parents due to abuse, this may not be what you think, alot of women now days do not find out they are pregnant till its too late for an abortion, simply because they show no signs that would indicate possible pregnancy, except for maybe a late period which does eventually show up so they think they were late because of stress, or it doesnt show up at all and they still think its due to stress because of what is happening in their life right then I have a friend that is such a case though she wanted to adopt her child out to her aunt when it was born her bf would not allow it, or if she did he would break up with her and she loved him so she kept the child and seems to be happy. I myself am an unplanned pregnancy, I was concieved before my mother was done breast feeding my brother and my parents were using birth control methods, my mom continued to have regular periods while pregnant with me and because of that the doctors in england refused to give her a pregnancy test, it was not till the ultrasound that they bealived my mother. So not all unplanned children have it bad I have non of the issues you have mentioned, I do however have a phobia of being alone which has nothing to do with my parents and everything to do with my epilepsy.

as for the 13/14 year olds that are pregnant I would put them under "It endangers mothers or baby's life" since they can not physically, mentally, or emotionally carry a child to term.

Yes I do believe that anyone who is sexually active or planning on becoming so should fully understand all consequences and birth control methods before they have sex!

Actually, there are cases where there are those that come into the system as infants, abandoned by their birthparents. Those that were born with defects and/or illnesses caused by genetics, alcohol/drug-abuse of the birth mother, or random mutation. No one wants a sick baby either.


Nope, I'm talking about the "lucky" ones that didn't suffer any "physical" abuse, or even enough psychological abuse to call the authorities on their parents. I'm talking about people that grew to adulthood under oppressive circumstances.
These situations are much more common than you'd think.


Or that's the excuse for not getting a pregnancy test. They're not expesive but if that stick turns blue it's something that people have to face then and there. It's much more common that the psychological reaction of "maybe, if I ignore it, it'll be okay" kicks in.


People often "seem" to be fine when they're not, not saying she's not, but if everything worked out okay for her then sure, good for her, but that's just not always the case. Not even remotely.


Again, good for you. But as you mentioned, you're not a first born child.


Knowing and understanding all the consequences of sex as well as all birth control methods will not guarantee 100% safety if people still have sex.
It's been proven time and time again that the quality and enjoyability of physical intimacy can make or break a relationship. So to imply that if you intend to be physically intimate with your partner at all that you should be ready to carry a child to term is incredibly arrogant.

I never said it was easy. I just said it was your choice. I know first hand how difficult it is.

I agree that this sounds mostly like children that are waiting in the county systems for homes... not new babies that are given an adoption plan for when they are born. There are families that have been waiting for years (I personally know some that have been waiting for 3+ years) for an infant adoption. Most the kids that are waiting in the system are kids that have been abused or neglected, "taken" from their homes or given up because the parents either cannot or will not take care of them. Babies that are born addicted to drugs. There are kids that have been abused because parents cannot stop beating on them, using them for sex or selling them to other people for sex, etc.. the stories can get horrific.

As the mother of an adopted child, I would be much happier seeing a baby given up for adoption than killed. Make the adoption plan before the baby is born and you will have plenty of time to choose how you want to be a part of the adoption, who you want to adopt the child, etc... I am part of a large group of adoptive parents, that have adopted from all different types of adoptions... foreign, foster care, special needs, domestic infant, and many other types... there are many people out there that want these children... give them a chance at life.