To the members of the guild

[TeaDidikai]

imadelilith

last time i checked, all religion... all reality, is what you believe it to be.

To be honest- you don't have a very good grasp of the nature of objective reality.

Quote:

and last time i checked, you needed to seek out flesh and blood to be a trad initiate...

Indeed! After you have done a lot of home work, learned what makes someone of the Wica, get a vouch or several, study, make yourself ready to be initiated and use good sense when dealing with others face to face.

Quote:

is your mistrust from personal experience with the wrong type, or are you warning against people like you?

My mistrust is from seeing the effects that are a result of children being raped by individuals who claimed to be High Priests. Bad people exist everywhere.

The lack of authority within a group who only have the common ground that they do not worship the god of Abraham means that a lot of bad information can circulate to justify the mistreatment of others.  

[CuAnnan]

imadelilith

all things are one thing, vibration.

That's a bastardisation of string theory.

imadelilith

energy.

Not all things are energy and energy is not always vibratory.

imadelilith

the speed at which all things vibrate is not what makes it what it is.

That's just a complete misunderstanding of string theory. These are analogies used so taht people who are either not bright enough or not learn'd enough to understand the truth can grasp a semblance of understanding.
Please, leave physics to those who are either bright or learn'd enough to understand it.

imadelilith

it is how we percieve these things.

No.

imadelilith

you cannot tell someone else what their reality is, because reality is our brain's interpretation of sensations and information.

How can you possibly state that?
It's a self-contradictory statement.
If, as you say, reality is subjective: You are intellectually obliged to accept that some people may be interpreting what is actually there and that you are not.

imadelilith

it is all chemical relativity.

No. It's not.

imadelilith

when you feel something strongly enough, it is your reality.

No.

imadelilith

objective reality is this.

That statement makes no sense.
Objective reality is independent of our observations, by defination.

imadelilith

what is observed.

Um... no. That's what subjective reality is.

imadelilith

not necessarily what is. funny you say feeling wouldn't trump objective reality.

What you feel does not trump objective reality.

imadelilith

i think you need a smaller tampon and a little less st. john's wart with your morning *tea*.

You are going to either apologise for that or I will report you to the moderation team.
If you are going to be uncivil, at least have the courtesy to do so plainly.  

[LordNeuf]

imadelilith

and last time i checked, you needed to seek out flesh and blood to be a trad initiate... is your mistrust from personal experience with the wrong type, or are you warning against people like you?

Well this is what I was kind of getting at.

I mean, I've met many people who claim to be intuitive healers, who by themselves, intuitively know how to sense energies in crystals and align them to shakra points to preform healing rituals to calm the mind and body.

Then I've been to other places which are dead set against such intuitive healing methods and actually teach others in how to sense crystal energies and how to align one's shakra.

I've been to organized groups with their own magic colleges who teach herbalism and divination and then there's the whole Cherry Hill Seminary up in Vermont which is an actual college to ordain pagan ministers.

But then again, I've known several people who are eclectic soloists, every religion has them. They pick and choose what works best for them and choose how to express themselves and become priests in their own right.

So how do you know if the source information is good? and what is just a fluff bunny?  

[imadelilith]

i'm sorry for you, that you feel the need to inforce your opinions. i've been advised to bow out. i apologise for insulting you earlier.  

[maenad nuri]

LordNeuf

and what is just a fluff bunny?

For the purposes of this guild, we generally agree with Seshen that a "fluff bunny" is:

Seshen

My definition of "fluffy" is "willfully ignorant." This excludes the newbies who just don't have much information; inexperienced seekers are not automatically "fluffy." Nor are eclectics.

"Fluffy bunnies" are the folks, newbie or not, who choose to ignore facts and other useful information in lieu of strictly "Wicca is what *I* want it to be," etc. I believe that being "fluffy" is not knowing the wrong thing, but refusing to learn or grow beyond initial information.

Fluffies are the ones that stick to misconceptions even when they come across contradictory evidence, and who don't think they ever need to expand their knowledge outside of the one/few book(s) they first read. Those who insist on staying in "persecution mode" despite historical evidence to the contrary.

This also includes "one-book wonders" who are now self-declared High Priest/esses and those who think the "darker side" of things is evil and scream "harm none" at you whilst beating you over the head at the same time; oftentime, just because you don't follow the Rede to the letter.

They believe that "perfect love and trust" is literal and any sort of unpleasantness, critical thinking or challenge to their ideas are personal attacks and/or elitist.

A lot of people think the term itself is elitist, conveying a superior attitude over newbies. Oh, well. I use it in the context above, and feel no hesitation whatsoever in applying it when appropriate.

 

[TeaDidikai]

There is a difference between being open minded and thoughtless. Approaching things with an open mind means that you will reason through the assertions and formulate an opinion based on the material presented. Being open minded is not an excuse for a lack of discernment.  

[LordNeuf]

Ok I think I got the whole fluff bunny thing now.

Now what do you think the current relations between Pagans and Christians on Gaia and the rest of the internet are, and how does this transfer to the real world?  

[TeaDidikai]

There are a number of Christians in this guild. There are a number of Christians in Extended Discussion: Morality and Religion who are respectful and have wonderful friendships with pagans. With the exception of your usual internet Trolls, we treat one another as people first. I think this is a fair representation of the majority of people offline as well.

It is only when we see individuals who insult or berate others based on their tradition that there is any conflict.  

[LordNeuf]

Are their any practices or discussion about paganism which you consider taboo for this forum?  

[TeaDidikai]

There are elements of paganism that do not fit into the realm of PG-13, which is a guideline for all of Gaia. To those ends, they are taboo.

There are also elements of a person's path that for any number of reasons are not fodder for the general public. Some traditions have oaths that prohibit the discussion of certain practices. Some individuals feel that revealing very sacred things exposes them to the potential to be exploited or abused in ways they cannot bring themselves to do.

As a rule, most people are very respectful of others in this regard. I have never had a personal problem with members saying they cannot reveal certain elements of their practice within the forum.  

[LordNeuf]

Ok I'm out of questions for now, but if anyone wants to talk about their role in society as a pagan teen or otherwise, lemme know.  

[LordNeuf]

Just to clarify, is Nuri the founder or just the person who's guild captain?  

[maenad nuri]

LordNeuf

Just to clarify, is Nuri the founder or just the person who's guild captain?

That's a bit tricky. The Rehab center existed before the Guild center was in place, and was born out of a joke in the Morality and Religion subforum. I was not the founder of that particular incarnation. When the Guild system was introduced, I more or less took over the running of the guild.

So a little from column A, a little from column B. Mostly A, I think. I feel bad that I can't recall the person who founded it before.  

[Sivirs]

Amusingly enough, I think imadelilith just made everyone's point about fluff bunnies right there.

She had a horribly incorrect understanding of the theory that she was espousing, and was starting to resort to insults, both veiled and otherwise, when she got questioned.

Wing, who has a better understanding of physics, pointed out where she was misunderstanding things. He also warned her about not insulting other members.

Rather than discussing her understanding of the theory with Wing, apologizing for insulting Tea, and trying to better her understanding (not to mention fleshing out her own thoughts on the matter, which is always helpful), she decided to take her toys and go home - but not before throwing a passive aggressive persecution comment in there about how he's forcing his opinion on her with threats of moderator involvement, even though those threats were about an insult she made, completely independently of his criticisms about her theory misunderstanding.

So there you go. Textbook fluff bunny.