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 Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 8:53 pm
TeaDidikai This sounds like Monistic Soft Polytheism. That being the case- how do you explain the deities that have killed one another- hate one another, rape one another etc? Experience. Everything has an opposite. Deity had no opposite so it split itself into everything to experience everything that was not it as a whole. Quote: That's interesting. What makes energy synonymous with deity? What about ritual appeals to the awareness of magic? I believe that magic is synonymous with Deity because it has no opposite. It simply waits for people to call to it to do something that will give it form, thus making it something with an opposite. Healing, money, love vs Hurt, poverty, and hate.
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:04 pm
Zelroth7 Experience. Everything has an opposite. What's the opposite of wood? What's the opposite of you?
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:17 pm
Deoridhe Zelroth7 Experience. Everything has an opposite. What's the opposite of wood? What's the opposite of you? Earth? A girl? What I mean by opposite is that on any spectrum that any thing you (such as the girl/boy spectrum, me being a boy, the opposite being a girl) there is an opposite. Deity and magic are too (for lack of a better word) big to be classified on any spectrum that we can comprehend, and therefore, have no opposite.
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:22 pm
Zelroth7 Deoridhe Zelroth7 Experience. Everything has an opposite. What's the opposite of wood? What's the opposite of you? Earth? A girl? What I mean by opposite is that on any spectrum that any thing you (such as the girl/boy spectrum, me being a boy, the opposite being a girl) there is an opposite. Why is earth the opposite of wood? And if earth is the opposite of wood, what is the opposite of sky and air? Is any girl an opposite of you, or is there a specific one? And if any girl will serve as an opposite of you, what is the opposite of someone else? Why do you think things exist on single spectrum where there are opposites? Light exists on a spectrum as well, but without opposites and with a huge amount of variety. Your theory seems inconsistent with observable reality, so I find it curious you state it is obvous. Zelroth7 Deity and magic are too (for lack of a better word) big to be classified on any spectrum that we can comprehend, and therefore, have no opposite. So, your initial statement that all things have opposites was...?
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:30 pm
Deoridhe *coughs* Yes, well, that's just my Old Man. I like Winaras' work. Zelroth7 Experience. Everything has an opposite. Deity had no opposite so it split itself into everything to experience everything that was not it as a whole. What of the gods who weren't split, but born? What of the gods who were mortal at one point? And if deity is united, is it self destructive? Quote: I believe that magic is synonymous with Deity because it has no opposite. Why does magic have no opposite? Crowley defines magic as the art and science of affecting change through will- a lack of will towards a given application would be the opposite of the nature of his definition. Why do you feel this is an inaccurate representation of magic? Quote: Healing, money, love vs Hurt, poverty, and hate. Why are these things opposites? Healing can hurt. Setting a bone is painful. It's still healing and it still hurts. Money and poverty are not opposites- poverty is a social condition- money is a counting system. People can have money and still live in poverty. The idea that love and hate are opposites has never flown with me. Love, Hate- they're both strong emotions. Apathy on the other hand...
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:41 pm
many things exist on many spectrums. On the girl/boy spectrum, the opposite of me is a girl. on the head size spectrum my opposite would be someone with an abnormally small head. Each human exists on so many spectrums.
Earth would be the opposite of wood on the "nutrients before and after a tree absorbs them" spectrum.
It's weird but it's how my brain rationalizes the world.
Deity doesn't have opposites because they are everything combined.
I'm sorry if I state this as "obvious" but it makes sense in my head xp
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:53 pm
Zelroth7 many things exist on many spectrums. On the girl/boy spectrum, the opposite of me is a girl. on the head size spectrum my opposite would be someone with an abnormally small head. Each human exists on so many spectrums. You didn't address the light spectrum issue I brought , where a spectrum exists without opposites; any particular reason for that? Also, trees get nutrients from water and air and sunlight as well.... your spectrum for tree vs. earth is flawed.
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:53 pm
Zelroth7 many things exist on many spectrums. On the girl/boy spectrum, the opposite of me is a girl. Many is not the same as all. Why is size the spectrum assigned to a head? Quote: Earth would be the opposite of wood on the "nutrients before and after a tree absorbs them" spectrum. Does that mean air and water are also the opposites of wood? After all, the tree needs those as well. Quote: Deity doesn't have opposites because they are everything combined. Why are they everything combined? By virtue of them transcending corporeal reality are they also the lack of that transcendence?
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 9:56 pm
In the fantasy land of my mind, the gods are born from the "universal consciousness" (not the name I would use, but it expresses the meaning I am trying to express at the moment I think)
It's not inaccurate, it's just a different thing being defined. Crowley's would be the act of magic. My definition is more related to the magic as a (once again, for lack of a better word at the moment) thing.
Sorry, I used the wrong words. What I meant would be help(heal) and harm(hurt). Wealth and Poor, both opposite ideas. It's all dependent on how you perceive it in your mind. To you apathy might be the opposite of love.
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:03 pm
Zelroth7 In the fantasy land of my mind, the gods are born from the "universal consciousness" (not the name I would use, but it expresses the meaning I am trying to express at the moment I think) Being born from is not the same as being synonymous with. Quote: It's not inaccurate, it's just a different thing being defined. Crowley's would be the act of magic. No- he quite clearly is stating he is defining magic. Not the art- because magic itself is an art. Quote: My definition is more related to the magic as a (once again, for lack of a better word at the moment) thing. As is his. Quote: Sorry, I used the wrong words. What I meant would be help(heal) and harm(hurt). Helping can harm as well. For example, even in clinical settings, people can contract deadly infections during operations. Quote: Wealth and Poor, both opposite ideas. Wabi sabi says otherwise. Quote: It's all dependent on how you perceive it in your mind. Why is your mind more valid than objective reality? Quote: To you apathy might be the opposite of love. Why do you feel it is not?
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:16 pm
Zelroth7 In the fantasy land of my mind, the gods are born from the "universal consciousness" (not the name I would use, but it expresses the meaning I am trying to express at the moment I think) ... *snip* ... It's all dependent on how you perceive it in your mind. I'm a little confused by this, and not sure I can state it clearly. So, then, do you believe gods and magic are *real*? If they are real, do they exist in an objective state? Do you believe that they are dependent on perception? Do you believe all people are right about these subjects, if so how? I'm not sure I'm asking the right questions. I've never been comfortable with a binary system for most of the things that you mention, such as gender, or emotions. In my opinion, they are related, but they are not opposed.
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:16 pm
Deo:
For the light spectrum, light is made up of photons. photons have a neutral charge, and are there for opposite of both positive and neutral charges.
Light exists on many spectrums as well.
The elements are a tricky one, hm... they all exist on a poly pointed spectrum and are opposites of each other.
Tea:
I was trying to make a joke. for some reason people think I have a large head >.<
Deity is everything combined as in the "universal consciousness" theory.
Magic is what is deity not yet given form.
......
You know, I can't tell if I'm making this up as I go or if I'm figuring out what I believe in.
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 10:36 pm
Tea:
I'm not sure where you are going with your first statement
What I think I mean by magic is that there is the act of magic, and then there is the energy being used. Some call it chi, qi, energy, I call it magic.
but the doctors intent is to help right? Help and harm are ideas. just like wealth and poor.
Wabi-sabi is a different belief system. entirely different ball field. thats like applying Shinto beliefs to Evangelical beliefs. But you've given me another one to read up on, thanks smile
When I think about it, all of our world is taken through the perspective of our mind. This is why some people enjoy baseball and some can't stand it.
I don't know what apathy is.
Moon: I'm confused too.
I think everthing is based on our perception. If it was changed, everything would seem to change as well. For all we know, what we see and think of as blue could be entirely different because of how our brains interpret the signals from our eyes.
I see where you are coming about not seeing them as opposites. They are linked, thus sort of canceling out my entire argument. But it makes sense in my head. smile
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Posted: Wed Jun 04, 2008 11:38 pm
Zelroth7 Deo: For the light spectrum, light is made up of photons. photons have a neutral charge, and are there for opposite of both positive and neutral charges. Light exists on many spectrums as well. Ummm... no. Photons carry polarization. The assertion that a neutral charge is opposite of positive and neutral charges is bunk. It's completely invalid. Light exists in one spectrum- the Visible Spectrum. Beyond that we begin to get into forms of radiation that aren't "light". Quote: Deity is everything combined as in the "universal consciousness" theory. Magic is what is deity not yet given form. If Deity is everything- then magic is deity form or otherwise. Quote: You know, I can't tell if I'm making this up as I go or if I'm figuring out what I believe in. Not sure they are mutually exclusive. Zelroth7 What I think I mean by magic is that there is the act of magic, and then there is the energy being used. Some call it chi, qi, energy, I call it magic. I find this rather insulting to be honest. Using magic as a catch all term for concepts that don't translate to one another across their different cultures- let alone can be defined as magic strikes me as having total disregard for the traditions you are equivocating with. Quote: but the doctors intent is to help right? Help and harm are ideas. just like wealth and poor. Human biology says that harm is not just an idea. Same with help. Economics and sociology say that wealth and poverty are also objective. Quote: Wabi-sabi is a different belief system. entirely different ball field. thats like applying Shinto beliefs to Evangelical beliefs. But you've given me another one to read up on, thanks smile Wabi-sabi is actually a philosophy that transcends theologies. I listed it as an example because I have a fondness for it over the more westernized traditions. Quote: When I think about it, all of our world is taken through the perspective of our mind. This is why some people enjoy baseball and some can't stand it. But there are points were our personal filters break down. Quote: I don't know what apathy is.
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Posted: Thu Jun 05, 2008 12:33 am
Zelroth7 For the light spectrum, light is made up of photons. photons have a neutral charge, and are there for opposite of both positive and neutral charges. Photons do not have any electrical charge. This nonsense of saying it's neutral is bad science.
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