Quantum Physics and Magic

[Koravin]

MaddLlama

That was the initial impression I had of it, but seeing as my dumb a** failed physics....

I don't get the need for validation. Are people afraid that atheists will come after Pagans next unless they have something "sciency" to say?

This post just made me think about how I don't fit in this guild. I'm in the atheist guild as well, because I am a pagan, but an atheist too. Is that really weird?

I guess first and foremost, I am a scientist. My religious beliefs are really an outgrowth of my knowledge of science, and my own observations. When science contradicts an idea I had previously, I adjust my beliefs. I don't know a whole lot about quantum mechanics, (just when you think you understand it, you realize you haven't got a clue) but I would think that any knowledge gained from it would have to mesh with one's religious beliefs. If there is a discrepancy, either our current knowledge of quantum mechanics is wrong, or our beliefs are wrong, and I'd bet on beliefs not backed up by science being wrong.

Maybe my thoughts on this are more simply that I don't think there's such a thing as 'supernatural.' Things that people may call supernatural (ghosts, magic, etc) are just as natural as atoms, gravity, plants, electromagnetic energy, or anything else that we categorize as natural. We live in a (relatively) ordered universe. Cause and effect reign. I would say that a supernatural phenomenon is a natural phenomenon not yet understood.  

[Deoridhe]

Ashley the Bee

Deoridhe

If they are altering the molecular structure of water, that should be fairly easy to check. Was it?

Well, the results that were shown on the website, and the results of Masaru Emotos' research, suggests that ice crystals from water with "bad" emotions aren't as intricate(?) as those with "good" emotions.

Masaru Emoto: Messages from Water

The movie (What the Bleep Do We Know) explained that the changes were a result of the human who wrote the message on the bottle interacting with the quantum structure of of the water and influencing it to go a certain way. That is, "good" thoughts would produce "good" ice crystals, where "bad" thoughts produce "bad" crystals.

Hmmm... did they control for confounds like belief in how the modelcules would change based on bottle? Seems like am awful lot of things to control for... also, I'm suspicious because they only showed one sample of each type; I would have much preferred seeing a representative sample with comparisons (especially since the "good" water looks like ice crystals while the "bad" water doesn't....). Was this peer reviewed and replicated?

I have to admit, phenomina liek this is some of the stuff I'd love to study once they set me loose on the world (muahahahahhaha), so I'm hoping the answers above indicate solid scientific method.  

[MoonJeli]

Deoridhe

Ashley the Bee

Deoridhe

If they are altering the molecular structure of water, that should be fairly easy to check. Was it?

Well, the results that were shown on the website, and the results of Masaru Emotos' research, suggests that ice crystals from water with "bad" emotions aren't as intricate(?) as those with "good" emotions.

Masaru Emoto: Messages from Water

The movie (What the Bleep Do We Know) explained that the changes were a result of the human who wrote the message on the bottle interacting with the quantum structure of of the water and influencing it to go a certain way. That is, "good" thoughts would produce "good" ice crystals, where "bad" thoughts produce "bad" crystals.

Hmmm... did they control for confounds like belief in how the modelcules would change based on bottle? Seems like am awful lot of things to control for... also, I'm suspicious because they only showed one sample of each type; I would have much preferred seeing a representative sample with comparisons (especially since the "good" water looks like ice crystals while the "bad" water doesn't....). Was this peer reviewed and replicated?

I have to admit, phenomina liek this is some of the stuff I'd love to study once they set me loose on the world (muahahahahhaha), so I'm hoping the answers above indicate solid scientific method.

His experiments have indeed been criticized for lack of controls, holding back information, not sufficiently eliminating observer bias, and so on. The studies have not been replicated, despite attempts to do so. Emoto is not a scientist, however, and makes no claim of being one. He sells pretty calendars though.  

[Deoridhe]

MoonJeli

His experiments have indeed been criticized for lack of controls, holding back information, not sufficiently eliminating observer bias, and so on. The studies have not been replicated, despite attempts to do so. Emoto is not a scientist, however, and makes no claim of being one. He sells pretty calendars though.

Awwww, nutz.

Oh well. ^^