The Bible and Opinions

[Lethkhar]

Ixor-san

Priestley

ryuu_chan

And yet, we are still moved to interpret passages differently, even after much prayer and study. How is it that two God-loving people can look at the same parts of the Bible and come to such different beliefs about it, and still be truely confident that it is God moving them both to believe it?

Because it's easy to convince and believe oneself to be correct, especially without anyone to keep one in check.

Yeah...I kinda have to agree with Priestly. Remember that lady a while back that killed her children because she thought the Bible said to....?

I highly doubt that it was God that moved her to interpret it that way.
And those are the kind of things that happen when we take the attitude that there are many ways to interpret the Bible. People start to find some very twisted interpretations.

Let's run through her logic, shall we?

1. I love my children so much that I would be willing to go to Hell to ensure that they go to Heaven.
2. Children are automatically sent to Heaven because they are below an age where they should have to take responsibility for their actions.
3. If I let my children grow up, they might convert to a different religion and go to Hell.
4. Therefore, it would be better for me to kill my children now and ensure eternal paradise for them than to risk them going to Hell.

I'm not saying that I support the woman's actions; I don't support the Bible in general. All I'm saying is that it's pretty easy to draw that conclusion. In fact, I'm surprised that there isn't more Bible-inspired infanticide than there is, considering how crazy 30% of the American nation is.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

I understand the logic, but that doesn't excuse her sin, not even in God's eyes (the salvation of her soul is another thing- I don't know where she stands with God; it's between her and Him). However, the Bible also stresses free will, and the fact that murder is a sin. To kill one's children to ensure they go to Heaven is committing two sins: murder, and infringing upon their God-given right to make up their own minds. We all pray and hope that the younger generation will make the right choice when it comes to eternal matters, but we can't force anyone to do anything. If we're following Jesus as an example, then we really know better than that. Jesus said to shake the dust off our feet and move on if someone doesn't want to accept His truth, not to beat it into them, or murder them before they even have the capacity to be held accountable for their own sins. I think she missed those parts of the Bible. -shrug-  

[freelance lover]

Priestley

freelance lover

I think part of it depends on which portion of the Bible you're looking at too. Wisdom literature like Proverbs was meant to be discusses and debated, where as the rules in the Torah... well, not so much!

Though in general I do believe that people need to find their own path to God, and therefore their own interpretation. But there is being on in the Holy Spirit. There's a fine line, I think.

John 14:6 NIV

Jesus answered, "I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."

Matthew 7:13-14

"Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it."

Luke 13:24 NIV

"Make every effort to enter through the narrow door, because many, I tell you, will try to enter and will not be able to."

I don't think these passages say anything about there being different paths, ways, doors or gates that lead to God other than Jesus. If a Christian shows Jesus Christ to you and says "this is the way", how can you then say that you'll find your own way?

My response was a little rushed. I was (ironically) on my way to church. I do believe Jesus is the way and the truth, but I think people have other ways to connect and understand God that are different than mine.

Let's see if I can explain this. I do believe there is an ultimate truth as to how God wants us to live, but I also think the probability of anyone getting that right is pretty slim. But that being said, I think we need to be in a state of listening. We need to listen to God in how we make descions and I feel like as long as you're pleasing God, than I think you're on the right path. That being said, some people's interpretations are going to be different than others because we're not perfectly in sync with God.

The main thing is all things should be between you and God.  

[Lethkhar]

Fushigi na Butterfly

I understand the logic, but that doesn't excuse her sin, not even in God's eyes (the salvation of her soul is another thing- I don't know where she stands with God; it's between her and Him). However, the Bible also stresses free will, and the fact that murder is a sin. To kill one's children to ensure they go to Heaven is committing two sins: murder, and infringing upon their God-given right to make up their own minds.

And maybe she knew that, but loved her children so much that she would prefer that she be the one that sins rather than them. Hell, when you look at it that way, she made the ultimate sacrifice. She condemned herself to save her children.

Fushigi na Butterfly

We all pray and hope that the younger generation will make the right choice when it comes to eternal matters, but we can't force anyone to do anything. If we're following Jesus as an example, then we really know better than that. Jesus said to shake the dust off our feet and move on if someone doesn't want to accept His truth, not to beat it into them, or murder them before they even have the capacity to be held accountable for their own sins. I think she missed those parts of the Bible. -shrug-

I think I missed the part of the Bible where they tell you not to kill your children before they can be held accountable.

And honestly, if you love your children enough you'll disregard that part of the Bible, anyway.  

[GuardianAngel44]

Lethkhar

Fushigi na Butterfly

I understand the logic, but that doesn't excuse her sin, not even in God's eyes (the salvation of her soul is another thing- I don't know where she stands with God; it's between her and Him). However, the Bible also stresses free will, and the fact that murder is a sin. To kill one's children to ensure they go to Heaven is committing two sins: murder, and infringing upon their God-given right to make up their own minds.

And maybe she knew that, but loved her children so much that she would prefer that she be the one that sins rather than them. Hell, when you look at it that way, she made the ultimate sacrifice. She condemned herself to save her children.

Fushigi na Butterfly

We all pray and hope that the younger generation will make the right choice when it comes to eternal matters, but we can't force anyone to do anything. If we're following Jesus as an example, then we really know better than that. Jesus said to shake the dust off our feet and move on if someone doesn't want to accept His truth, not to beat it into them, or murder them before they even have the capacity to be held accountable for their own sins. I think she missed those parts of the Bible. -shrug-

I think I missed the part of the Bible where they tell you not to kill your children before they can be held accountable.

And honestly, if you love your children enough you'll disregard that part of the Bible, anyway.

I think I missed the part of the Bible where they tell you to kill your children before they can be held accountable.

And honestly, if you love your children at all you won't kill them at the age of four.  

[The Amazing Ryuu]

Lethkhar

I'm not saying that I support the woman's actions; I don't support the Bible in general. All I'm saying is that it's pretty easy to draw that conclusion. In fact, I'm surprised that there isn't more Bible-inspired infanticide than there is, considering how crazy 30% of the American nation is.

Well, obviously the mentally unstable people have their own interpretations also. And they believe it SO much more fervently than the rest of us...

Priestley

Because it's easy to convince and believe oneself to be correct, especially without anyone to keep one in check.

Unless you're with a group that believes the same thing. Soldiers overseas in Iraq right now are there because they believe they are supposed to be. They are good Christians killing for the safety and security of America, and believe that that is what God intends for them to do. At the same time, there are Christians (and non) who would NEVER take another life because they believe that killing, no matter the reason, is wrong, and in fact protest the war. Both groups will say that the other group's interpretation is wrong. No, not EVERYTHING written for us is debateable, but what Fushigi reads from a passage is relavent to her life and the plans God has for her, and the information she needs to apply. That same passage will speak differently to Priestly, to me, to freelance, to Lethkhar. I think Lethkhar's the biggest example. We read the Bible and we see God. He reads the Bible and sees a book full of contradictions and perhaps some nice stories. Maybe I'm out on a limb here, but if I'm called to be the soldier and you the civilian, won't we have been led two different ways on the same topic of war? Not that I don't see your points guys, I do and they're well made. But something keeps telling me that if we WERE all led by the same Spirit exactly the same way, we wouldn't have so many factions and denominations inside of Christanity as it is, and we wouldn't disagree on so many topics. God made us so that no two people see the world the same way. How can we all see his book the same way?  

[Lethkhar]

GuardianAngel44

Lethkhar

Fushigi na Butterfly

I understand the logic, but that doesn't excuse her sin, not even in God's eyes (the salvation of her soul is another thing- I don't know where she stands with God; it's between her and Him). However, the Bible also stresses free will, and the fact that murder is a sin. To kill one's children to ensure they go to Heaven is committing two sins: murder, and infringing upon their God-given right to make up their own minds.

And maybe she knew that, but loved her children so much that she would prefer that she be the one that sins rather than them. Hell, when you look at it that way, she made the ultimate sacrifice. She condemned herself to save her children.

Fushigi na Butterfly

We all pray and hope that the younger generation will make the right choice when it comes to eternal matters, but we can't force anyone to do anything. If we're following Jesus as an example, then we really know better than that. Jesus said to shake the dust off our feet and move on if someone doesn't want to accept His truth, not to beat it into them, or murder them before they even have the capacity to be held accountable for their own sins. I think she missed those parts of the Bible. -shrug-

I think I missed the part of the Bible where they tell you not to kill your children before they can be held accountable.

And honestly, if you love your children enough you'll disregard that part of the Bible, anyway.

I think I missed the part of the Bible where they tell you to kill your children before they can be held accountable.

I've already walked through that.

Quote:

And honestly, if you love your children at all you won't kill them at the age of four.

She did, apparently.  

[Ixor Firebadger]

Lethkhar

Ixor-san

Priestley

ryuu_chan

And yet, we are still moved to interpret passages differently, even after much prayer and study. How is it that two God-loving people can look at the same parts of the Bible and come to such different beliefs about it, and still be truely confident that it is God moving them both to believe it?

Because it's easy to convince and believe oneself to be correct, especially without anyone to keep one in check.

Yeah...I kinda have to agree with Priestly. Remember that lady a while back that killed her children because she thought the Bible said to....?

I highly doubt that it was God that moved her to interpret it that way.
And those are the kind of things that happen when we take the attitude that there are many ways to interpret the Bible. People start to find some very twisted interpretations.

Let's run through her logic, shall we?

1. I love my children so much that I would be willing to go to Hell to ensure that they go to Heaven.
2. Children are automatically sent to Heaven because they are below an age where they should have to take responsibility for their actions.
3. If I let my children grow up, they might convert to a different religion and go to Hell.
4. Therefore, it would be better for me to kill my children now and ensure eternal paradise for them than to risk them going to Hell.

I'm not saying that I support the woman's actions; I don't support the Bible in general. All I'm saying is that it's pretty easy to draw that conclusion. In fact, I'm surprised that there isn't more Bible-inspired infanticide than there is, considering how crazy 30% of the American nation is.

Oh I'm not saying there was no logic to it in her own mind. But it was a twisted logic and never what God intended the Bible to teach us. And that is the danger of thinking that there are different 'truths' to be taken from it.  

[Fushigi na Butterfly]

Lethkhar

I think I missed the part of the Bible where they tell you not to kill your children before they can be held accountable.

And honestly, if you love your children enough you'll disregard that part of the Bible, anyway.

Love is a verb. Jesus doesn't say, "Feel warm and fuzzy toward your neighbor." He says, "Love your neighbor." He even takes its one step further by saying that we should love them as He has loved us. How has He loved us? By sharing the truth with us. By taking on our sin and becoming sin and then physically dying, and resurrecting in order to defeat that sin. He served. We are to do just that. Share truth, keep others accountable and lead them toward Jesus so that He may cover their sin, and serve. Some might argue that the mother who killed her children took Jesus' example to the extreme and really lived up to His standards and commands. If she was saved, then she paid no other price besides a physical death. She was not separated from God the way Jesus was if she was saved.

What she did was not love by any means. It was just insanity.  

[Lethkhar]

Ixor-san

Lethkhar

Ixor-san

Priestley

ryuu_chan

And yet, we are still moved to interpret passages differently, even after much prayer and study. How is it that two God-loving people can look at the same parts of the Bible and come to such different beliefs about it, and still be truely confident that it is God moving them both to believe it?

Because it's easy to convince and believe oneself to be correct, especially without anyone to keep one in check.

Yeah...I kinda have to agree with Priestly. Remember that lady a while back that killed her children because she thought the Bible said to....?

I highly doubt that it was God that moved her to interpret it that way.
And those are the kind of things that happen when we take the attitude that there are many ways to interpret the Bible. People start to find some very twisted interpretations.

Let's run through her logic, shall we?

1. I love my children so much that I would be willing to go to Hell to ensure that they go to Heaven.
2. Children are automatically sent to Heaven because they are below an age where they should have to take responsibility for their actions.
3. If I let my children grow up, they might convert to a different religion and go to Hell.
4. Therefore, it would be better for me to kill my children now and ensure eternal paradise for them than to risk them going to Hell.

I'm not saying that I support the woman's actions; I don't support the Bible in general. All I'm saying is that it's pretty easy to draw that conclusion. In fact, I'm surprised that there isn't more Bible-inspired infanticide than there is, considering how crazy 30% of the American nation is.

Oh I'm not saying there was no logic to it in her own mind. But it was a twisted logic and never what God intended the Bible to teach us.

How do you know that?

Quote:

And that is the danger of thinking that there are different 'truths' to be taken from it.

Yeah...What if her interpretation is the only right one?  

[Lethkhar]

Fushigi na Butterfly

What she did was not love by any means. It was just insanity.

I agree. But I also think that eating and drinking the body and blood of the person who saved you in the metaphorical form of bread and wine is insanity, so who am I to judge?  

[Priestley]

ryuu_chan

Priestley

Because it's easy to convince and believe oneself to be correct, especially without anyone to keep one in check.

Unless you're with a group that believes the same thing. Soldiers overseas in Iraq right now are there because they believe they are supposed to be. They are good Christians killing for the safety and security of America, and believe that that is what God intends for them to do. At the same time, there are Christians (and non) who would NEVER take another life because they believe that killing, no matter the reason, is wrong, and in fact protest the war. Both groups will say that the other group's interpretation is wrong. No, not EVERYTHING written for us is debateable, but what Fushigi reads from a passage is relavent to her life and the plans God has for her, and the information she needs to apply. That same passage will speak differently to Priestly, to me, to freelance, to Lethkhar. I think Lethkhar's the biggest example. We read the Bible and we see God. He reads the Bible and sees a book full of contradictions and perhaps some nice stories. Maybe I'm out on a limb here, but if I'm called to be the soldier and you the civilian, won't we have been led two different ways on the same topic of war? Not that I don't see your points guys, I do and they're well made. But something keeps telling me that if we WERE all led by the same Spirit exactly the same way, we wouldn't have so many factions and denominations inside of Christanity as it is, and we wouldn't disagree on so many topics. God made us so that no two people see the world the same way. How can we all see his book the same way?

Again, I refer you to Paul and his use of the Lord's Supper as a metaphor for how the Church must be subject to the Spirit despite differing points of view, not holding one's own point of view above, before or higher than one's brothers' -- basically.  

[Priestley]

Lethkhar

Ixor-san

Lethkhar

Ixor-san

Priestley

Because it's easy to convince and believe oneself to be correct, especially without anyone to keep one in check.

Yeah...I kinda have to agree with Priestly. Remember that lady a while back that killed her children because she thought the Bible said to....?

I highly doubt that it was God that moved her to interpret it that way.
And those are the kind of things that happen when we take the attitude that there are many ways to interpret the Bible. People start to find some very twisted interpretations.

Let's run through her logic, shall we?

1. I love my children so much that I would be willing to go to Hell to ensure that they go to Heaven.
2. Children are automatically sent to Heaven because they are below an age where they should have to take responsibility for their actions.
3. If I let my children grow up, they might convert to a different religion and go to Hell.
4. Therefore, it would be better for me to kill my children now and ensure eternal paradise for them than to risk them going to Hell.

I'm not saying that I support the woman's actions; I don't support the Bible in general. All I'm saying is that it's pretty easy to draw that conclusion. In fact, I'm surprised that there isn't more Bible-inspired infanticide than there is, considering how crazy 30% of the American nation is.

Oh I'm not saying there was no logic to it in her own mind. But it was a twisted logic and never what God intended the Bible to teach us.

How do you know that?

As one would normally find guidance on a particular issue: by cross-referencing Scripture and making a value judgment based on one's findings. Oh, let's not forget those parts in the gospels where Jesus loved and welcomed children to him. Now, don't you feel silly? xd

Lethkhar

Ixor-san

And that is the danger of thinking that there are different 'truths' to be taken from it.

Yeah...What if her interpretation is the only right one?

Yes, Lethkhar, she is the only Christian who will go to heaven. rolleyes  

[Ixor Firebadger]

Priestley

Lethkhar

Ixor-san

Lethkhar

Ixor-san

Yeah...I kinda have to agree with Priestly. Remember that lady a while back that killed her children because she thought the Bible said to....?

I highly doubt that it was God that moved her to interpret it that way.
And those are the kind of things that happen when we take the attitude that there are many ways to interpret the Bible. People start to find some very twisted interpretations.

Let's run through her logic, shall we?

1. I love my children so much that I would be willing to go to Hell to ensure that they go to Heaven.
2. Children are automatically sent to Heaven because they are below an age where they should have to take responsibility for their actions.
3. If I let my children grow up, they might convert to a different religion and go to Hell.
4. Therefore, it would be better for me to kill my children now and ensure eternal paradise for them than to risk them going to Hell.

I'm not saying that I support the woman's actions; I don't support the Bible in general. All I'm saying is that it's pretty easy to draw that conclusion. In fact, I'm surprised that there isn't more Bible-inspired infanticide than there is, considering how crazy 30% of the American nation is.

Oh I'm not saying there was no logic to it in her own mind. But it was a twisted logic and never what God intended the Bible to teach us.

How do you know that?

As one would normally find guidance on a particular issue: by cross-referencing Scripture and making a value judgment based on one's findings. Oh, let's not forget those parts in the gospels where Jesus loved and welcomed children to him. Now, don't you feel silly? xd

Lethkhar

Ixor-san

And that is the danger of thinking that there are different 'truths' to be taken from it.

Yeah...What if her interpretation is the only right one?

Yes, Lethkhar, she is the only Christian who will go to heaven. rolleyes

Thank you. You answered this better than I would have. 3nodding  

[Priestley]

Ixor-san

Priestley

Lethkhar

Ixor-san

Lethkhar

Let's run through her logic, shall we?

1. I love my children so much that I would be willing to go to Hell to ensure that they go to Heaven.
2. Children are automatically sent to Heaven because they are below an age where they should have to take responsibility for their actions.
3. If I let my children grow up, they might convert to a different religion and go to Hell.
4. Therefore, it would be better for me to kill my children now and ensure eternal paradise for them than to risk them going to Hell.

I'm not saying that I support the woman's actions; I don't support the Bible in general. All I'm saying is that it's pretty easy to draw that conclusion. In fact, I'm surprised that there isn't more Bible-inspired infanticide than there is, considering how crazy 30% of the American nation is.

Oh I'm not saying there was no logic to it in her own mind. But it was a twisted logic and never what God intended the Bible to teach us.

How do you know that?

As one would normally find guidance on a particular issue: by cross-referencing Scripture and making a value judgment based on one's findings. Oh, let's not forget those parts in the gospels where Jesus loved and welcomed children to him. Now, don't you feel silly? xd

Lethkhar

Ixor-san

And that is the danger of thinking that there are different 'truths' to be taken from it.

Yeah...What if her interpretation is the only right one?

Yes, Lethkhar, she is the only Christian who will go to heaven. rolleyes

Thank you. You answered this better than I would have. 3nodding

You're welcome. 3nodding