Beginnings and Where you are now

[imadelilith]

way back and when like in fifth grade of fourth i think my friends and i picked up a book on devil worship and created cult... uh, which sounds crazy.

but now i know how ridiculous, though funny, that was. i think your best source is gonna be people. real live flesh and blood people. text book style intro to wicca books give you how tos for things that you can't possibly complete with a whole heart until you've lived a little, but advice from someone who has is generally put into a context that is utilitarian to your actual point of reference. if that's unavailable, there is always the internet. book wise i recommend anything buddhist (lol). to be honest, i think i am here and now because of reference to that faith compared to mine as a witch. but i'm odd... neutral  

[TeaDidikai]

imadelilith

i think your best source is gonna be people. real live flesh and blood people.

The thing to consider though is that people can be ******** nutters!

It is easier to close a book than a person and a certain level of discernment is needed to maintain safety.  

[Nomad of Nowhere]

TeaDidikai

imadelilith

i think your best source is gonna be people. real live flesh and blood people.

The thing to consider though is that people can be ******** nutters!

It is easier to close a book than a person and a certain level of discernment is needed to maintain safety.

Hard to say, in my opinion. On one hand, a book written by an Atlantean/Druid maniac who thinks he met Merlin gets irritating fast, whereas someone who thinks that they're a dragon is kind of funny in person.  

[TeaDidikai]

Teague the Druid

Hard to say, in my opinion. On one hand, a book written by an Atlantean/Druid maniac who thinks he met Merlin gets irritating fast, whereas someone who thinks that they're a dragon is kind of funny in person.

My personal opinion on otherkin aside- you can put down a collection of paper, ink and glue without the paper ink and glue engaging in a Mr. Dark and or posing a physical threat.  

[imadelilith]

eh, but people give advice from their experiences or opinions, and i feel like you can see what is real to them and what is fantasy. i think experiencial advice sometimes is overlooked in the need to make money with a book. on that note, people can be nutters, but sometimes a nutter throws out something someone would never throw out in a book because of it's nutty-ness that resonates, to your own suprise.

on another note,
just started reading deepok chopra's the third jesus... so far, fantastic, though not wiccan, has a deep god-consciousness theme that should resonate with the witches.  

[TeaDidikai]

imadelilith

eh, but people give advice from their experiences or opinions, and i feel like you can see what is real to them and what is fantasy. i think experiencial advice sometimes is overlooked in the need to make money with a book. on that note, people can be nutters, but sometimes a nutter throws out something someone would never throw out in a book because of it's nutty-ness that resonates, to your own suprise.

You know- it is the kind of thoughtless seeking that brings young people into covens to be sexually assaulted.  

[imadelilith]

i was refering to listening, and assimilating information from all sources. not following everyone's advice or doing whatever is told to you. i think there is a difference between taking the position of an eager postulate and the polite listener... a big difference. i think you might simply have misunderstood me.  

[TeaDidikai]

What I am saying is that advocating something that individuals may find beneficial devoid of context without addressing where it is harmful is irresponsible.  

[imadelilith]

i think generally speaking that it really is up to an individual to choose a higher path, and if they are not smart enough to not take everything and face value, then this wouldn't really be a path they would consider. i think that you must start at a path's beginning, not decide just to jump right into the middle of it.

i thought this group was to rehabilitate the fluffy syndrome, by encouraging individual thought and not following. you seem to think that all individual truths layed out for others to consider will be swallowed up whole by an intellegent individual. i don't know what your personal experiences are, but generally speaking i am assuming the average individual is open to information from all sources because the tunnel vision view of things occult makes for the same thing most of us are trying to avoid.

anyone that is willing to simply latch on to the first suggestion thrown out there is not likely grow much in any way any time soon no matter from what or whom they are getting the information.  

[maenad nuri]

The purpose of this guild is to rehabilitate, but it's also to help people evaluate their sources. Total experience from people is just as bad as I Read A Book-ism.

I'm not going to listen to a nutter the same way I listen to someone with a well-reasoned argument. When that nutter is presenting a well-reasoned argument, then I'll listen. Doesn't matter if its in a book or in person.  

[TeaDidikai]

imadelilith

i think generally speaking that it really is up to an individual to choose a higher path, and if they are not smart enough to not take everything and face value, then this wouldn't really be a path they would consider.

Why would we assume that there is a minimum IQ value for someone to be interested in something?

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i think that you must start at a path's beginning, not decide just to jump right into the middle of it.

Why would we assume that careful research through texts, as opposed to developing personal exchanges with people is not the beginning?

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i thought this group was to rehabilitate the fluffy syndrome, by encouraging individual thought and not following.

Why do you feel individual thought is more valuable to rehabilitating individuals who cling to willful ignorance than good sense- even if the good sense happens to be popular?

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you seem to think that all individual truths layed out for others to consider will be swallowed up whole by an intellegent individual. i don't know what your personal experiences are, but generally speaking i am assuming the average individual is open to information from all sources because the tunnel vision view of things occult makes for the same thing most of us are trying to avoid.

You seem to think that I care about truth when I posit that books and quality research are a better starting place than people. I don't. I think individuals will learn and grow- but they should not subject themselves to individuals who will take advantage of them. This includes cults that thrive on Mr. Darks, clergy that are more about their ego than serving their gods- and for heaven's sake! I shudder when I think of idiots who suggest that establishing an exchange with an individual is a better way to go than books without considering the quality of the individual they are talking about!

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anyone that is willing to simply latch on to the first suggestion thrown out there is not likely grow much in any way any time soon no matter from what or whom they are getting the information.

I don't make that assertion- nor do I feel that it is better to suggest to an individual to seek out a person over research.

You can darn well walk away from a book that makes you uncomfortable. A person might walk right after you.  

[imadelilith]

so when people come to you for advice or with questions on the internet, are we assuming you are a person, or a book?  

[TeaDidikai]

imadelilith

so when people come to you for advice or with questions on the internet, are we assuming you are a person, or a book?

In essence? Until you get to know me personally- a book. My words are pixels on a screen and you can turn off your computer and walk away. You can put my profile on ignore and never have to read what I write again. I fundamentally exert no control over your actions, and while treating individuals with a reasonable amount of civility is polite, the effect I have in your life is in your own hands.

When dealing with individuals in real life, they have the ability to physically effect your existence- as a result, caution is the better part of reason.  

[imadelilith]

okay then. i am considering myself as a person. discussing as we are now i was assuming that counted as person to person, and that is why i was so befuddled by your contradiction.

now, i see where you are coming from on the idea of being attacked by fanatical occultists... i am assuming of coarse you are not in the home or dark alley with these individuals. more like a shop or festival out in open air. i think assault from crazy peoples is possible at any time you are talking to anyone about anything. but i am pretty sure in general some loony toon is going to force you into crude sexual acts in front of the leather booth at your local pagan prive festivities...  

[TeaDidikai]

The single most well renowned neo-pagan faith is a fertility cult that includes sexual rites between the High Priests and Priestesses of a coven and their initiates.

The person doesn't have to be a raving nutter to take advantage of this fact.