Metagenetics

[TatteredAngel]

In addition to the previous concerns raised about mutts, I'm confused how far back one should go with this. I mean, there were some crazy Indo-European groups that I could probably link back to somewhere had I infinite knowledge, but there's only so far we're able to extend the family tree.

Say that I cannot mark ancestors back to a time in which Christianity was not the widespread religion of the region. Would I still be able to go back further on the assumption that some distant relation was of another local religion?

I can't say I care for the idea much, anyway. I figure if you have a particular affinity with your ancestral gods, bully for you. If not, I don't think it should be a problem.  

[TeaDidikai]

TagraNar

TeaDidikai

Tagra>> Well said. But how do you feel about closed cultures?

This might sound silly, but could I get a definition on closed cultures? I don't want to base my answer and opinion on what I'm assuming it means.

No prob hun. A closed culture is one that has limited interaction with cultures outside of it's own. Often this is seen within who members of the culture marry- a taboo being placed on marrying someone from outside the culture, sometimes it is seen in trading practices and spiritual beliefs being restricted from outside observation.

Examples would include many Native American tribes, the Rroma, some (fanatical?) sects of Judaism, small comminutes within rural areas of some countries and Japan was a closed community for a long time ~is blanking on dates~- even if they are not closed now.  

[TagraNar]

Well then, it would depend. If the culture was closed off due to ideas of racial superiority, I'd have to object to that. If it was because their gods have specifically said that they are their people, and that none else are welcome, I don't think there's much one could do about that. I would be completely foreign to a Japanese Kami, and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't interested in me (if I'm reading that example right). If it's closed off to preserve the culture, I can understand that, and would encourage it. I'm not too keen on the idea of a global culture.

There's a certain sense of unfairness if I'm interested in a culture's gods who are closed off to outsiders, much like a Mystery Religion's secrets being kept from my curiosity. But there's not much I could do about either. If those gods do not want me because I am not of the right blood, then I'm out of luck, and it would be best not to press them and perhaps insult them.

I hope that answered your question. I was kinda rambling. sweatdrop  

[wicked_faery]

TeaDidikai

I think that most folks of Metagenetic paths (Such as Native American and Rroma) would look at you crosseyed for the disrespect you were showing their culture and traditions.

O_O where do u get saying i'm disrespecting anyone? i'm stating my own oppinions & not anyone elses...so i would please like u to not even respond to any more of my posts thank u cause i find u are being very disrespectful to me now.  

[TeaDidikai]

TagraNar

Well then, it would depend. If the culture was closed off due to ideas of racial superiority, I'd have to object to that. If it was because their gods have specifically said that they are their people, and that none else are welcome, I don't think there's much one could do about that. I would be completely foreign to a Japanese Kami, and I wouldn't be surprised if it wasn't interested in me (if I'm reading that example right). If it's closed off to preserve the culture, I can understand that, and would encourage it. I'm not too keen on the idea of a global culture.

There's a certain sense of unfairness if I'm interested in a culture's gods who are closed off to outsiders, much like a Mystery Religion's secrets being kept from my curiosity. But there's not much I could do about either. If those gods do not want me because I am not of the right blood, then I'm out of luck, and it would be best not to press them and perhaps insult them.

I hope that answered your question. I was kinda rambling. sweatdrop

Made perfect sense. And I am the same way with Mystery Religions.

I come down on the side of "Oh! I wish I could know, to learn and understand- but not at the cost of going where I'm not welcome".

wicked_faery

TeaDidikai

I think that most folks of Metagenetic paths (Such as Native American and Rroma) would look at you crosseyed for the disrespect you were showing their culture and traditions.

O_O where do u get saying i'm disrespecting anyone? i'm stating my own oppinions & not anyone elses...so i would please like u to not even respond to any more of my posts thank u cause i find u are being very disrespectful to me now.

I am saying to force yourself into a culture because of a sense of entitlement that one links to "past lives" "UPG" or any other such belief is disrespectful to the culture a person would inflict themselves upon.

And tought titty kiddy. It's an open forum, and I'm not breaking any rules. Read what Nuri had to say about disagreeing and contesting assertions and get over yourself.  

[wicked_faery]

TeaDidikai

I am saying to force yourself into a culture because of a sense of entitlement that one links to "past lives" "UPG" or any other such belief is disrespectful to the culture a person would inflict themselves upon.

And tought titty kiddy. It's an open forum, and I'm not breaking any rules. Read what Nuri had to say about disagreeing and contesting assertions and get over yourself.

uh huh...1 i never said i was forcing myself into anything. see u seem to just be picking out the parts u want to read & ignoring the rest.

& 2...i'm not the one starting things here. i WAS trying to ignor u & i DID ask u to ignor my posts. but then probably the only thing u ignored was just that. my asking YOU to leave ME alone.  

[Sivirs]

TeaDidikai

I come down on the side of "Oh! I wish I could know, to learn and understand- but not at the cost of going where I'm not welcome".

Yeah, I get the same way. Probably many of us do, I'd wager. I sometimes wonder if Nuri wakes up in a cold sweat late at night and weeps for the loss of the final Eleusinian mystery.

I totally would if I were Hellenic.

As to closed cultures.. yeah, it can be hard to deal with the more extreme backlash of that kind of mindset. I'm an east asian studies major, and most of my focus is on Japanese and Japanese language, and it's a bit sad learning of people who live all their lives in Japan but are still outsiders because they aren't ethnically Japanese, or Japanese who go abroad for a while and come back to scorn because they're no longer "one of us."

I do hope Japanese culture, the REAL stuff and not the peppy poppy export culture they provide, can get a little more accessible to people interested in learning, it'll make my job a lot easier, but I'm not a big fan of global culture either, so I'd be awfully sad if Japan lost its unique weirdness to increasing westernization.  

[TeaDidikai]

wicked_faery

TeaDidikai

I am saying to force yourself into a culture because of a sense of entitlement that one links to "past lives" "UPG" or any other such belief is disrespectful to the culture a person would inflict themselves upon.

And tought titty kiddy. It's an open forum, and I'm not breaking any rules. Read what Nuri had to say about disagreeing and contesting assertions and get over yourself.

uh huh...1 i never said i was forcing myself into anything. see u seem to just be picking out the parts u want to read & ignoring the rest.

& 2...i'm not the one starting things here. i WAS trying to ignor u & i DID ask u to ignor my posts. but then probably the only thing u ignored was just that. my asking YOU to leave ME alone.

Which would mean you are speaking off topic.
My assertion is that if you want to claim that past lives grant you an entitlement that this life does not- you are being disrespectful. Do you agree or disagree?

And The First Amendment is a b***h. I will not ignore things I disagree with to pander to your ego.  

[maenad nuri]

Sivirs

TeaDidikai

I come down on the side of "Oh! I wish I could know, to learn and understand- but not at the cost of going where I'm not welcome".

Yeah, I get the same way. Probably many of us do, I'd wager. I sometimes wonder if Nuri wakes up in a cold sweat late at night and weeps for the loss of the final Eleusinian mystery.

I totally would if I were Hellenic.

I do and I don't. I yearn to be apart of them, on the other, Demeter clearly meant for them to be Mystery, and if we do find the final secrets, I would be elated and sad, because it means that someone did not respect Her.  

[TeaDidikai]

Nuri

I do and I don't. I yearn to be apart of them, on the other, Demeter clearly meant for them to be Mystery, and if we do find the final secrets, I would be elated and sad, because it means that someone did not respect Her.

This brings up a very good point.

How do people feel about the balance of Metagenetic Mysteries and the respect for the culture that holds them when faced with a personal desire to learn?  

[Tsuzuki]

TeaDidikai

Tsuzuki

Metagenetics is for fools who can't think outside of the boxes they were born into. On the other hand, those who try to squish into other people's boxes are just as foolish, if not more so. They should know better.

Tsuzuki- you sound a little divided on the subject.

Not really. I think that it's wrong to go from one closed minded view to another. A religious starting point is one thing, but on the whole, I just don't like boxes at all. This is why I could never adopt another person's path. Not because of metagenetics, but because it would almost certainly limit me in some way.

TeaDidikai

Some groups claim a blood tie to their gods- and that such a tie is important.

In my heart of hearts I am forbidden from believing that you and I are fundamentally any different from each other. Mythical blood ties must give way to archeological and anthropological evidence.

TeaDidikai

How do people feel about the balance of Metagenetic Mysteries and the respect for the culture that holds them when faced with a personal desire to learn?

What is a metagenetic mystery, and how is it different from a universal mystery?  

[TeaDidikai]

Tsuzuki

In my heart of hearts I am forbidden from believing that you and I are fundamentally any different from each other. Mythical blood ties must give way to archeological and anthropological evidence.

But we are different. Granted, you and I have more in common than not- but why would having more in common invalidate those things that make us unique?

Quote:

What is a metagenetic mystery, and how is it different from a universal mystery?

The mystery tied to a metagenetic path.

Remember that thread in M&R a while back? How evoking a god that has no interest in working with people who are not his children will get you to the same place that you doing things your way will get you? Well, part of the path that culture may take could be a mystery.  

[Tsuzuki]

TeaDidikai

Tsuzuki

In my heart of hearts I am forbidden from believing that you and I are fundamentally any different from each other. Mythical blood ties must give way to archeological and anthropological evidence.

But we are different. Granted, you and I have more in common than not- but why would having more in common invalidate those things that make us unique?

Our similarities are fundamental, while our differences aren't. Furthermore, our two racial lines converge at the point of the original Indo-Europeans. At least, that's what science tells us. How far back do your mythical blood ties go, and could they possibly include everyone of Indo-European descent?

TeaDidikai

Quote:

What is a metagenetic mystery, and how is it different from a universal mystery?

The mystery tied to a metagenetic path.

Remember that thread in M&R a while back? How evoking a god that has no interest in working with people who are not his children will get you to the same place that you doing things your way will get you? Well, part of the path that culture may take could be a mystery.

In that case, I'm only concerned with universal mysteries.  

[TeaDidikai]

Tsuzuki

Our similarities are fundamental, while our differences aren't. Furthermore, our two racial lines converge at the point of the original Indo-Europeans. At least, that's what science tells us. How far back do your mythical blood ties go, and could they possibly include everyone of Indo-European descent?

The mythology actually doesn't claim all of the Indo-European peoples.

Quote:

In that case, I'm only concerned with universal mysteries.

Fair enough  

[Tsuzuki]

TeaDidikai

Tsuzuki

Our similarities are fundamental, while our differences aren't. Furthermore, our two racial lines converge at the point of the original Indo-Europeans. At least, that's what science tells us. How far back do your mythical blood ties go, and could they possibly include everyone of Indo-European descent?

The mythology actually doesn't claim all of the Indo-European peoples.

Can you see where I'm going with this, though?