In a bad mood? come here and rant till you feel better

[Hawk Atreides]

Esiris

MyValenwind

So, a friend of mine is kinda new to neopaganism and is very much still learning the basics. A few months ago she told me that she spent $250 on an athame that was "calling out to her", but she barely knows how she should even use it.

Aargh. Thats all I have to say.

Good blades are expensive. If it's a good blade, I don't blame them. If it's crap that could have been bought somewhere else for $10, I can understand why it's frustrating.

That kind of reminds me of (and I think I've mentioned this to Nuri before) a spell shop that charges somewhere around $400/lb for Dead Sea Salt. Ripping off pagans on ritual tools is an economy unto itself.  

[Fiddlers Green]

Hawk Atreides

That kind of reminds me of (and I think I've mentioned this to Nuri before) a spell shop that charges somewhere around $400/lb for Dead Sea Salt. Ripping off pagans on ritual tools is an economy unto itself.

Especially as the salt likely isn't even from the Dead Sea.
In my experience, unless you personally know the merchant, collect your components in person. neutral  

[Esiris]

ARGH! stressed scream
Threatening a boyfriend of your child on a first date with a shotgun isn't acceptable behavior. How messed up in the head do you have to be to either be the parent and think it's okay to do that or be the child and think it's okay for your parent to do that?!

Lethal weapons aren't toys and using them to ******** someone who is just taking your daughter to a move and pizza is a horrible way to go about building a relationship with someone your child cares about.

And what kind of job did you do to raise your kid if you feel their choice in partners deserves to be threatened with death?

And how messed up is the kid if they think this kind of behavior is appropriate?!  

[Shearaha]

Esiris

ARGH! stressed scream
Threatening a boyfriend of your child on a first date with a shotgun isn't acceptable behavior. How messed up in the head do you have to be to either be the parent and think it's okay to do that or be the child and think it's okay for your parent to do that?!

Lethal weapons aren't toys and using them to ******** someone who is just taking your daughter to a move and pizza is a horrible way to go about building a relationship with someone your child cares about.

And what kind of job did you do to raise your kid if you feel their choice in partners deserves to be threatened with death?

And how messed up is the kid if they think this kind of behavior is appropriate?!

Hmm, this is a fairly common practice where I'm from. It's less a verbal threat and more of a, when he comes to pick the girl up Daddy makes sure he's cleaning his gun.
Heck when I brought my husband home for the first time my dad and brother spent an hour showing him all of their guns and my brother even demonstrated his proficiency with his rifle for him.
It was expected. I knew that was going to happen and warned my-then-boyfriend to expect it. It ended up being a bonding experience for the guys, and even if it hadn't I wouldn't have wanted to marry someone who was afraid of my dad or my brother.

Then again there is a difference between threatening and letting someone know that you own and know how to use a weapon.
There is also a difference between protecting you offspring and smothering them.  

[Esiris]

Shearaha

Hmm, this is a fairly common practice where I'm from. It's less a verbal threat and more of a, when he comes to pick the girl up Daddy makes sure he's cleaning his gun.
Heck when I brought my husband home for the first time my dad and brother spent an hour showing him all of their guns and my brother even demonstrated his proficiency with his rifle for him.
It was expected. I knew that was going to happen and warned my-then-boyfriend to expect it. It ended up being a bonding experience for the guys, and even if it hadn't I wouldn't have wanted to marry someone who was afraid of my dad or my brother.

Then again there is a difference between threatening and letting someone know that you own and know how to use a weapon.
There is also a difference between protecting you offspring and smothering them.

I think it's messed up to play head games with someone like that. This is a person- someone who has thoughts and feelings, not some animal that needs a loud noise to be chased out of the yard.

Weapons aren't toys. It's one thing to share something you like with someone, it's another to imply that you'll kill them.  

[Shearaha]

Esiris

Shearaha

Hmm, this is a fairly common practice where I'm from. It's less a verbal threat and more of a, when he comes to pick the girl up Daddy makes sure he's cleaning his gun.
Heck when I brought my husband home for the first time my dad and brother spent an hour showing him all of their guns and my brother even demonstrated his proficiency with his rifle for him.
It was expected. I knew that was going to happen and warned my-then-boyfriend to expect it. It ended up being a bonding experience for the guys, and even if it hadn't I wouldn't have wanted to marry someone who was afraid of my dad or my brother.

Then again there is a difference between threatening and letting someone know that you own and know how to use a weapon.
There is also a difference between protecting you offspring and smothering them.

I think it's messed up to play head games with someone like that. This is a person- someone who has thoughts and feelings, not some animal that needs a loud noise to be chased out of the yard.

Weapons aren't toys. It's one thing to share something you like with someone, it's another to imply that you'll kill them.

But, at least where I'm from, it's not to imply that you'll kill them. It's to remind the boy that the girl he's taking out is a person, has a family that loves her and to keep his libido in check. It's also supposed to remind the girl that her family loves her and not to get in over her head, but if she does, she has her family to take care of her.
It's hard to explaine, there is a lot of sub-text that isn't even thought about, but everyone knows what the action means. It's not a threat of death, but a reminder of repercussions.  

[Hawk Atreides]

Shearaha

But, at least where I'm from, it's not to imply that you'll kill them. It's to remind the boy that the girl he's taking out is a person, has a family that loves her and to keep his libido in check. It's also supposed to remind the girl that her family loves her and not to get in over her head, but if she does, she has her family to take care of her.
It's hard to explaine, there is a lot of sub-text that isn't even thought about, but everyone knows what the action means. It's not a threat of death, but a reminder of repercussions.

I'm not inclined to believe that the subtext is existent in all cases. Case in point: My wife got pregnant at 18 by her now-ex-husband. Her father threatened, without subtext, hint, or implication, that he would kill said boy should he ever enter the house again. There was no rape and no coercion involved - just an overprotective man who was willing to kill over the loss of his daughter's "purity". When cases like that so much as exist, I'm not inclined to play the "rich cultural nuance" game.  

[Esiris]

Shearaha

But, at least where I'm from, it's not to imply that you'll kill them. It's to remind the boy that the girl he's taking out is a person, has a family that loves her and to keep his libido in check.

I don't think displaying weapons is somehow better than using your words.

Quote:

It's also supposed to remind the girl that her family loves her and not to get in over her head, but if she does, she has her family to take care of her.

It's hard to explaine, there is a lot of sub-text that isn't even thought about, but everyone knows what the action means. It's not a threat of death, but a reminder of repercussions.

It's too close to mental abuse in my book.
People use that same kind of reasoning to explain why beating their partner is just a reminder too.

Call it subtext if you want, but it won't make it right.
Assault 4 is a crime after all.  

[Collowrath]

This time last week, I was at the end of my rope. Last Wednesday, that rope was yanked right out of my hand and now I'm in a total freefall. I don't know what I'm going to do.

I do know, that when I come out of this, I'm making a huge pot of stew (either beef or deer gulash with beer!), and while that simmers I'm going to put together a big, lovely apple crisp pie. I'm gonna bake that pie and soften some ice cream while I eat that stew. When I finish eating that stew and that pie is beautiful and done, I'm going to pull it out. I'm going to slice it. I'm going to serve it with lots of that ice cream.

And damn it, the world will be right again.  

[Shearaha]

Hawk Atreides

Shearaha

But, at least where I'm from, it's not to imply that you'll kill them. It's to remind the boy that the girl he's taking out is a person, has a family that loves her and to keep his libido in check. It's also supposed to remind the girl that her family loves her and not to get in over her head, but if she does, she has her family to take care of her.
It's hard to explaine, there is a lot of sub-text that isn't even thought about, but everyone knows what the action means. It's not a threat of death, but a reminder of repercussions.

I'm not inclined to believe that the subtext is existent in all cases. Case in point: My wife got pregnant at 18 by her now-ex-husband. Her father threatened, without subtext, hint, or implication, that he would kill said boy should he ever enter the house again. There was no rape and no coercion involved - just an overprotective man who was willing to kill over the loss of his daughter's "purity". When cases like that so much as exist, I'm not inclined to play the "rich cultural nuance" game.

It doesn't exist in every case, but it did in mine. My father and brother wouldn't really have done anything, but that's just how it's done.
It's expected that the father make it known that his daughter is still under his protection, until he passes that on to her chosen mate. A man who can not stand up to a girl's father for her benifit, is not likely to be able to protect her against real threats, and is not likely to be able to protect her children either.  

[Shearaha]

Esiris

Shearaha

But, at least where I'm from, it's not to imply that you'll kill them. It's to remind the boy that the girl he's taking out is a person, has a family that loves her and to keep his libido in check.

I don't think displaying weapons is somehow better than using your words.

Quote:

I'm not saying it is. I'm saying that there are still areas where this is the norm. It's expected and accepted behavior. There are fathers and brothers and mothers even that use words instead of weapons. There are those that don't even do that, but simply sit there and look intimidating.

Esiris

Shearaha

It's also supposed to remind the girl that her family loves her and not to get in over her head, but if she does, she has her family to take care of her.

It's hard to explaine, there is a lot of sub-text that isn't even thought about, but everyone knows what the action means. It's not a threat of death, but a reminder of repercussions.

It's too close to mental abuse in my book.
People use that same kind of reasoning to explain why beating their partner is just a reminder too.

Call it subtext if you want, but it won't make it right.
Assault 4 is a crime after all.

It's not mental abuse unless it's taken too far.
My mother abused me mentaly and emotionally for years.
A threat of force is not equal to use of force. And in book, still a seperate issue.
It's no different then, say, putting a child in time out but warning them of a spanking if they continue to misbehave. They don't do it, the spanking never comes if the behavior stops.
It's easier on parent and child to reward good behavior, but that doesn't always work. And then there are those for whom just words have no effect. But that's a whole 'nother rant I'd rather not get into.

Suffice to say, that it's not right in every situation and every time. But there are certinaly times that it is.

 

[Esiris]

Shearaha

I'm not saying it is. I'm saying that there are still areas where this is the norm. It's expected and accepted behavior.

I don't think assault is acceptable behavior. It's like saying that because there are still places where beating your partner to teach them a lesson is expected and accepted behavior, it's ok. It isn't.

Quote:

It's not mental abuse unless it's taken too far.
My mother abused me mentaly and emotionally for years.
A threat of force is not equal to use of force. And in book, still a seperate issue.
It's no different then, say, putting a child in time out but warning them of a spanking if they continue to misbehave.

If you point a gun at a child and tell them to go into time out- then you'll be comparing apples to apples.

Maybe your abuse has your perception messed up. I know mine messed my perception up for a long time.

Quote:

Suffice to say, that it's not right in every situation and every time. But there are certinaly times that it is.

Domestic abuse (and that is what this is) is NEVER right.  

[Hawk Atreides]

Shearaha

It doesn't exist in every case, but it did in mine. My father and brother wouldn't really have done anything, but that's just how it's done.

I'm sorry, did you just justify honor killings, gay-bashing, lynching, human trafficking, and religious oppression? I don't hate to be harsh. This is the end of the "that's just how it's done" rope you're not acknowledging.

And the whole "stand up to her father" thing...gods below. So a daughter is a possession that a man must take by show of strength and defiance to prove that he is capable of protecting her against things that might never happen. I refuse to accept that this is ever a good thing.

And yes, as Esiris says, it's criminal behavior. Making a person believe, through show of force or use of threatening words, that you will cause harm to come to them, is at least assault. Start bringing weapons into the mix and you could start getting into felony territory.  

[Esiris]

I'm fine with family sitting down and talking about expectations with potential boyfriends and girlfriends, but threatening them isn't and shouldn't be considered okay.  

[Shearaha]

Esiris

Shearaha

I'm not saying it is. I'm saying that there are still areas where this is the norm. It's expected and accepted behavior.

I don't think assault is acceptable behavior. It's like saying that because there are still places where beating your partner to teach them a lesson is expected and accepted behavior, it's ok. It isn't.

Sorry, I just don't see it as assult. Assult is an action, not the threat of action.

Esiris

Shearaha

It's not mental abuse unless it's taken too far.
My mother abused me mentaly and emotionally for years.
A threat of force is not equal to use of force. And in book, still a seperate issue.
It's no different then, say, putting a child in time out but warning them of a spanking if they continue to misbehave.

If you point a gun at a child and tell them to go into time out- then you'll be comparing apples to apples.

Maybe your abuse has your perception messed up. I know mine messed my perception up for a long time.

What I was doing was comparing the gun to the spanking. I put a child in time out, letting them know that if the behavior continues they will get spanked. See the comparison now.

My abuse may have messed up my perception, but I still think that there are times and cultures/sub-cultures where this in entirely appropriate behavior.

Esiris

Shearaha

Suffice to say, that it's not right in every situation and every time. But there are certinaly times that it is.

Domestic abuse (and that is what this is) is NEVER right.

This is not domestic abuse. Unless you're saying that the daughter is being abused in this situation.