Worst Things You Can Ever Say As A Pagan

[Brass Bell Doll]

AniMajor

Quote:

No, [a psychic vampire is] someone who drains the astral/spirit energy after astrally projecting, and drains it using a similar method to osmosis with water.

Quote:

I do believe in them, mainly because I have had an encounter, I was attacked, and at first I thought it was an anxiety attack or something similar, but it didn't match those symptoms. I did some research, and found that book. (there's a link in one of my previous posts)

The link was to Konstantinos's Vampires, the Occult Truth.

I'm sorry, but I'm not following. Why is this one of the worst things a pagan can say?  

[AniMajor]

Brass Bell Doll

AniMajor

Quote:

No, [a psychic vampire is] someone who drains the astral/spirit energy after astrally projecting, and drains it using a similar method to osmosis with water.

Quote:

I do believe in them, mainly because I have had an encounter, I was attacked, and at first I thought it was an anxiety attack or something similar, but it didn't match those symptoms. I did some research, and found that book. (there's a link in one of my previous posts)

The link was to Konstantinos's Vampires, the Occult Truth.

I'm sorry, but I'm not following. Why is this one of the worst things a pagan can say?

First, because the person did very little research on what he was experiencing, found a book on Google that talked about "symptoms" of psychic vampire attack and decided that was what happened.

Second, Konstantinos's stuff claims to be for the "goth" pagan, but he doesn't really understand the goth subculture, describes his type of magic as "dark" without qualification (except that he's drawing "dark" energy in his rituals), and says that his stuff should only be used as desperate measures, but none of his stuff is any more risky than other author's generic pagan rituals.

It's like someone felt sick after lunch, did some research online and found out through a Ravenwolf book that they had been Death Cursed.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

AniMajor

First, because the person did very little research on what he was experiencing, found a book on Google that talked about "symptoms" of psychic vampire attack and decided that was what happened.

But if he is correct, why would the amount of time used to do the research matter?

AniMajor

Second, Konstantinos's stuff claims to be for the "goth" pagan, but he doesn't really understand the goth subculture, describes his type of magic as "dark" without qualification (except that he's drawing "dark" energy in his rituals), and says that his stuff should only be used as desperate measures, but none of his stuff is any more risky than other author's generic pagan rituals.

Maybe you're correct, in that the actual stylization of the rituals isn't any more or less dangerous than anything else. My reading on Konstantinos's work has left me with an impression that it involves the exploration of parts of our psychology that can be challenging to work with- especially if we aren't prepared to do so correctly.

While some rituals are designed to do this as well, I don't think most are. Because of that- he may have a point.

For what it is worth, there are other rituals out there that I don't feel just anyone should pick up- things like intense forms of Yoga-Dharma and Shakti work, some styles of Ceremonial Magic/k, certain Tantric practices, some invocation- mostly things that will cause intense change or upheaval.

I feel these need more preparation, focus and research than something you'll find in a Scott Cunningham book.

AniMajor

It's like someone felt sick after lunch, did some research online and found out through a Ravenwolf book that they had been Death Cursed.

I don't think that's a fair analogy. It seems, based on what has been posted, that he did a quick google and determined that he had food poisoning. He may have food poisoning. He could have the flu or an allergic reaction to something he ate. So while it is possible he is wrong, it isn't always a foolish conclusion.

I personally believe that people who manipulate the energy of other people exist, and that like anything in life that can effect our energy, it can be felt.  

[AniMajor]

Brass Bell Doll

But if he is correct, why would the amount of time used to do the research matter?

Because he's jumping to a supernatural and self-centered conclusion. Not only is it a psychic vampire, but it's attacking him directly.

Quote:

Maybe you're correct, in that the actual stylization of the rituals isn't any more or less dangerous than anything else. My reading on Konstantinos's work has left me with an impression that it involves the exploration of parts of our psychology that can be challenging to work with- especially if we aren't prepared to do so correctly.

While some rituals are designed to do this as well, I don't think most are. Because of that- he may have a point.

For what it is worth, there are other rituals out there that I don't feel just anyone should pick up- things like intense forms of Yoga-Dharma and Shakti work, some styles of Ceremonial Magic/k, certain Tantric practices, some invocation- mostly things that will cause intense change or upheaval.

I feel these need more preparation, focus and research than something you'll find in a Scott Cunningham book.

I'm all for people dealing with difficult parts of their psyche, as long as they're adequately prepared and willing to deal with the consequences. I'm not sure that Konstantinos's work actually deals with those parts, though, or at least, his version of dealing with it is the equivalent of the Dark Side of the Force.

I know that, a lot of times, people don't think ahead, and are unlucky enough to totally screw themselves up. Or, in rare cases, they do think ahead, just assume that screwing themselves up is a good thing, and do it anyway. That's another discussion, though.

Quote:

I don't think that's a fair analogy. It seems, based on what has been posted, that he did a quick google and determined that he had food poisoning. He may have food poisoning. He could have the flu or an allergic reaction to something he ate. So while it is possible he is wrong, it isn't always a foolish conclusion.

I personally believe that people who manipulate the energy of other people exist, and that like anything in life that can effect our energy, it can be felt.

I have a lot of issues with vampirism in general, and psychic vampirism specifically. I know it's possible to manipulate the energy of other people. But psychic vampires don't make sense. If a person lacks spiritual energy, then feeding off of other people would be like a starving wolf eating roadkill or going after a pet cat. They don't care how they get fed, as long as they do. It would also mean that psychic vampires wouldn't be concerned with things like attacking people from afar or going after difficult people, or even individual people at all. They could just go to a supermarket or a club or any public place and take from multiple people.

Which means that it's inconvenient for the psychic vampire to take from the person who I quoted. It's much easier to take from a crowd than a person who may not be an easy target, may not have enough energy, and would notice such a significant drop in energy that he'd go looking for a reason (although what he's describing doesn't sound like a drop in energy, if he's comparing it to a panic attack).  

[Brass Bell Doll]

AniMajor

Because he's jumping to a supernatural and self-centered conclusion. Not only is it a psychic vampire, but it's attacking him directly.

But your restating a position that ignores the premise.
May I rephrase? What about his conclusion is impossible?

AniMajor

I'm all for people dealing with difficult parts of their psyche, as long as they're adequately prepared and willing to deal with the consequences.

I agree.

AniMajor

I'm not sure that Konstantinos's work actually deals with those parts, though, or at least, his version of dealing with it is the equivalent of the Dark Side of the Force.

What about his writing makes you feel that way?
Is it an overall impression or is it something specific?

AniMajor

I know that, a lot of times, people don't think ahead, and are unlucky enough to totally screw themselves up. Or, in rare cases, they do think ahead, just assume that screwing themselves up is a good thing, and do it anyway. That's another discussion, though.

Very true.

AniMajor

I have a lot of issues with vampirism in general, and psychic vampirism specifically. I know it's possible to manipulate the energy of other people. But psychic vampires don't make sense. If a person lacks spiritual energy, then feeding off of other people would be like a starving wolf eating roadkill or going after a pet cat. They don't care how they get fed, as long as they do. It would also mean that psychic vampires wouldn't be concerned with things like attacking people from afar or going after difficult people, or even individual people at all. They could just go to a supermarket or a club or any public place and take from multiple people.

I agree with all of these conclusions, but I suggest another possible cause as well. It might not be that they lack energy and are seeking to "make up" for this lack. They could simply want the energy. They may use it for their personal direction as has been implied by members of the guild at earlier times. They may be offering it to something they believe is a god. I wouldn't suggest all of them have the same motives- since I don't believe they all practice the same form of psychic vampirism.

AniMajor

Which means that it's inconvenient for the psychic vampire to take from the person who I quoted. It's much easier to take from a crowd than a person who may not be an easy target, may not have enough energy, and would notice such a significant drop in energy that he'd go looking for a reason (although what he's describing doesn't sound like a drop in energy, if he's comparing it to a panic attack).

Wouldn't this assume that the vampire knew what they were doing?

In the same way I'm not sure we can assume competence in people who practice magic, I don't see that we can assume competence in someone who practices psychic vampirism.  

[AniMajor]

Brass Bell Doll

In the same way I'm not sure we can assume competence in people who practice magic, I don't see that we can assume competence in someone who practices psychic vampirism.

I'll get to the rest in a sec, but I just wanted to point out that your statement is one of the truest things I've ever read.  

[Wrath of Ezekiel]

Quote:

wow, thanks for telling me what my religion is. i’m only one of those things, but i’m still wiccan. see, this is why i left chirstianity, because i was tired of people telling me what to believe.

Not exactly terrible, but this was on Tumblr of all places. After I shared the link to the M&R Wicca FAQ. gonk

I'm getting ready to write a reply back soon.  

[Chaos Blue]

Wrath of Ezekiel

Quote:

wow, thanks for telling me what my religion is. i’m only one of those things, but i’m still wiccan. see, this is why i left chirstianity, because i was tired of people telling me what to believe.

Not exactly terrible, but this was on Tumblr of all places. After I shared the link to the M&R Wicca FAQ. gonk

I'm getting ready to write a reply back soon.

Hah! Wow! Thanks for telling me what I am! See, this is why I left Christianity, because I was tired of people telling me WHAT TO BELIEVE.

Clever deduction, anonymous. wink  

[whiporwill-o]

Chaos Blue

Wrath of Ezekiel

Quote:

wow, thanks for telling me what my religion is. i’m only one of those things, but i’m still wiccan. see, this is why i left chirstianity, because i was tired of people telling me what to believe.

Not exactly terrible, but this was on Tumblr of all places. After I shared the link to the M&R Wicca FAQ. gonk

I'm getting ready to write a reply back soon.

Hah! Wow! Thanks for telling me what I am! See, this is why I left Christianity, because I was tired of people telling me WHAT TO BELIEVE.

Clever deduction, anonymous. wink

... wow  

[Brass Bell Doll]

"In many pagan paths, primarily shamanism, there is a common concepts of the many bodies that each of us is made of. The common number is four. You have your spiritual, emotional, physical and mental bodies."

I feel this belongs here because it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what shamanism is, and it attempts to address a practice that varies greatly in different regions without supporting the claims about the number four and how it relates to spiritual understandings.  

[whiporwill-o]

Brass Bell Doll

"In many pagan paths, primarily shamanism, there is a common concepts of the many bodies that each of us is made of. The common number is four. You have your spiritual, emotional, physical and mental bodies."

I feel this belongs here because it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what shamanism is, and it attempts to address a practice that varies greatly in different regions without supporting the claims about the number four and how it relates to spiritual understandings.

in japan isn't 4 unlucky and pronouced/written the same way as 'death'?  

[aoijea23487]

whiporwill-o

Brass Bell Doll

"In many pagan paths, primarily shamanism, there is a common concepts of the many bodies that each of us is made of. The common number is four. You have your spiritual, emotional, physical and mental bodies."

I feel this belongs here because it demonstrates a fundamental misunderstanding of what shamanism is, and it attempts to address a practice that varies greatly in different regions without supporting the claims about the number four and how it relates to spiritual understandings.

in japan isn't 4 unlucky and pronouced/written the same way as 'death'?

Not necessarily for pronunciation, and it is not written the same way. But this is generally a speech taboo. When counting things in Japanese, they generally say "yon" instead of "shi." For example, the number 134 is pronounced "hyaku san juu yon." Four o'clock is "yonji." Etc. So four isn't inherently evil or anything.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

"Most pagan paths teach that we heal oursleves by healing others."

I was thinking about this and I have to say most pagans I know teach that in order to help others, you have to be healthy yourself. If you are not healthy enough to care for yourself, how can you be expected to deplete yourself further to help another?  

[Cranium Squirrel]

Illiezeulette

Not necessarily for pronunciation, and it is not written the same way. But this is generally a speech taboo. When counting things in Japanese, they generally say "yon" instead of "shi." For example, the number 134 is pronounced "hyaku san juu yon." Four o'clock is "yonji." Etc. So four isn't inherently evil or anything.

I have heard hospitals actually skip having a room 4 on any floor, because no one wants to stay in the death room. xd Dunno if it's true, but there you go.  

[aoijea23487]

Byaggha

Illiezeulette

Not necessarily for pronunciation, and it is not written the same way. But this is generally a speech taboo. When counting things in Japanese, they generally say "yon" instead of "shi." For example, the number 134 is pronounced "hyaku san juu yon." Four o'clock is "yonji." Etc. So four isn't inherently evil or anything.

I have heard hospitals actually skip having a room 4 on any floor, because no one wants to stay in the death room. xd Dunno if it's true, but there you go.

I wouldn't be surprised. Japanese has different words for counting things. For instance, there are different words used for counting people and for counting flat objects and time and oh the list goes on and on. It could be that whatever category counting rooms falls under uses "shi," and that's why they skip.