Worst Things You Can Ever Say As A Pagan

[maenad nuri]

In the entire time that this guild has been active, I've asked two people to change their posts, very rarely deleted anything, and have banned maybe 4 people.

I AM SO HORRIBLE AT THIS CENSORSHIP THING.

A lot of the causes of obesity that you've mention have other underlying roots. It's hard to feed healthy foods when you can't afford them, when you don't have a grocery store just the market down the street (where if you can find produce, you don't want to eat it).

Or s**t, how about a food system where most of the food we eat is derived from corn, and people outside of rural areas and farming areas have never seen a corn field.

Everyone is doing a pretty good job explaining why what you wrote is bigotted. Also, as the wife of a technically obese diabetic, I'm trying to remain civil myself.  

[Gho the Girl]

As a Health Aide, I run into a lot of people who are obese, or diabetic.

To call them lazy, self-harming, basically all the things you're saying about them . . . how dare you. All of the ones I've met worked for years, worked hard, supporting themselves and family. Nobody deserves diabetes, or your slander.

Do you know how hard it is to lose weight when you're working (realistically, not just what you get paid for) around 50-60 hours a week, are surrounded by junk food because, s**t man, going to a grocery and getting healthy foods is time and money I don't really have right now, that's hard. Preparing the food to be eaten also takes time and energy I don't have after working 10 to 14 hours. And to burn off any excess fat I have, s**t, I'd have to pay a monthly fee for a gym. More money and more time I don't have.

s**t it sucks eeking out an existance on my own two feet.  

[Calelith]

Celeblin Galadeneryn

Expect a kick to the teeth.

Lavdem virtvtis

Or Worse.

necessitati damvs

 

[Calixti]

Celeblin Galadeneryn

Well she did basically point out that she hates the lower class too.

And people with 'depression or other emotional problems.' Cos depression's just an 'emotional problem' that you can 'get over,' amirite? stare  

[Ishtar Shakti]

Calixti

Celeblin Galadeneryn

Well she did basically point out that she hates the lower class too.

And people with 'depression or other emotional problems.' Cos depression's just an 'emotional problem' that you can 'get over,' amirite? stare

Because you can deal with your problems. Proactive measures coping strategies which are healthy counseling. Alot of people create a sort of self defeating miasma of beliefs which tell themselves that this is the way things are and their is nothing I can do to change this.

I HATE that line of self defeating thought! I can't stand it. And I dislike when people feed into the concept that there is nothing you can do. I don't like people using escapist strategies so that they don't have to deal with their underlying issues.  

[Ishtar Shakti]

maenad nuri

In the entire time that this guild has been active, I've asked two people to change their posts, very rarely deleted anything, and have banned maybe 4 people.

I AM SO HORRIBLE AT THIS CENSORSHIP THING.

A lot of the causes of obesity that you've mention have other underlying roots. It's hard to feed healthy foods when you can't afford them, when you don't have a grocery store just the market down the street (where if you can find produce, you don't want to eat it).

Or s**t, how about a food system where most of the food we eat is derived from corn, and people outside of rural areas and farming areas have never seen a corn field.

Everyone is doing a pretty good job explaining why what you wrote is bigotted. Also, as the wife of a technically obese diabetic, I'm trying to remain civil myself.

I mentioned this. I understand that people may not be able to afford healthy foods. But I also know that people don't research what they are eating. Don't take measures to try to grow their own food etc. and don't limit their food intake

You also don't take into account the vast array of people who do have grocery stores and still refuse to eat anything that might even resemble something healthy. Foods filled with sugar and are highly processed.

I have never been to a place where they don't at least have frozen vegetables or some sort of naturally grown produce. I watch person after person decide they would rather buy a candy bar and soda then drink water and eat vegetables. I have never been to a place where their was not some option of health food.

Mostly the people who I have a problem with are people in the Upper Class Because they have the worst freaken diets and they have the means to provide otherwise. They then spend tons of money on supplements and other dietary aids to try to offset the disgustingly poor eating habits they've developed.

I also don't see how not seeing a corn field is in anyway relevent to the discussion?  

[Ishtar Shakti]

Quote:

Ishtar Shakti

poor eating habits, overeating or binging

I grew up with these, mostly because of abuse which lead to food-based self medication. It was also a product of the quality of food in the home.

I feel my parent's ability to pay such a tax would not have protected me from this.

My mother does this. I wish her parents had in some way tought her that food did not equal happiness. I would prefere if someone had interveined and tought her better coping strategies and I wish my grandmother was not codependent and had left my grandfather like she planned to.

I find that food based self medication is a horrible bi-product of neglectful parenting and abuse. This needs to be changed. It happens even today... and the parental actions such as bribing a child with a candy bar or a snack instead of a hug makes it worse. To give a child food instead of love is just... Terrible! It needs to be changed and addressed.

Quote:

Ishtar Shakti

lack of exercise (i.e., couch potato kids)

I was not able to play outside as a child because of the long hours my parents worked to provide for me. By the time they returned from work, it was too dark to play outside and I was not allowed to play outside when I was home alone because if an accident occurred, there wouldn't be anyone to help me.

This is an entirely different issue. Couch potato children are a different subset of societal issues and norms which are adopted in some families. I meet people who that is their only interaction with their parents. It is the only time in which bonding may occure.
For the most part... This was my interaction with my mother. I was left to myself all day. I wandered the neighborhood for hours on end mostly playing in the woods. She couldn't afford anyone to watch me and my brother was abusive thus I was left to my own devices for hours and hours during the day.
If an accident occured then I was on my own as well but I learned how to fend for myself outside and not die soo all is well.
The only time I spent with my mom was when we watched a single TV show everynight together as a family and then she would go to her room and I wouldn't see her for hours on end. If my brother decided it was a good idea to strangle me no one was there. When I did go to my mom she would tell me not to upset my brother and he would say that I put him up to it.

Everyone has issues its how people choose to deal with them. I decided to stay as far away from home as possible to avoid getting hit strangled and otherwise mal treated. My mother never tought me how to deal with my issues and as a subsequent problem I ended up having to learn on my own what worked and what didn't work and because I was spending soo much time outside I ended up meeting alot of other children who had alot of other problems.

Quote:

Ishtar Shakti

The underlined issues are what I see needs to be changed
They need to be dealt with. Obesity is caused by a number of problems. Mental illness should be addressed and the child should be seen by a counselor or someone to help the child learn better coping strategies.
I don't like the way parents teach their children to Deal with issues. I also have a feeling the issue is not being addressed. I don't like the Mentality people have. I don't like when people use remote controls to solve all their problems. I don't like people not being Proactive and I don't care if you think I'm an a** hole for my opinions I don't want children growing up thinking that they don't have to take care of themselves and with no clue how to do so properly.

I agree, I feel all of these issues need to be addressed- but I do not feel they should be addressed in a way that penalizes good people because of the symptoms they express.

I don't think penalyzing them would work either. They need counseling they need Programs they need support and if I can't trust parents to do this for them then some other institution needs to be put in place to provide this need. I mean soo many kids suffer neglect...

Quote:

Ishtar Shakti

What is soo Wrong with my opinions that you consider them bigoted and a** back ward or whatever.

I feel a lot of your post seems to confuse the symptom with the problem. When we single out people because of their symptoms, we do not address the problems either- instead we harm other people who need help.

I find the problem to be the parents Not the children. The symtom is the children... the parents are the ones who need to change and forming some way to dissuade people from being parents in the first place is what I see as the first step.

I would rather Less children with parents who have a better economic stand point who can provide for their kids and more programs that are meant to cater directly to children needs. Of course I would also want people to choose where their taxs go. Choose what percent goes to what aspect of government so that proper channeling of resources can be had.

If the increased taxs went directly to providing food for children when they went home, nutritious food sources actual Guidance of nutional needs that I would be really happy.

I am all for the new revised wic program which includes 10 dollars worth of fruits and vegetables that specifically makes it so that you Can't have canned fruits with high fructose or sucrose additives. I am ******** EXSTATIC that they made this change! I think more changes like that one need to be made

Parents which are Stressed who have to work double shifts who have to work in their off hours on programs and things... they don't have time to take care of their children. If they don't have time institutions need to be made to provide a place for kids outside of being stranded at the home. Money needs to be allocated for this from Somewhere!

If the programs that people are being taxed for Directly help the people they are taxing then their is nothing wrong with taxing them.  

[Ishtar Shakti]

Quote:

I feel that your solution does not support proper care of children, as care of a child is more than meeting their most basic needs.

I also feel that because of how our government controls the resources that make up our basic needs, that income, a series of numbers on a paycheck, is not the measure by which we can qualify a good parent over a bad one.

Taxs are a specific percent of income thus it wouldn't be based on income but how well you manage your time and resources. I've known people who spend a large percent of their income on luxury items while neglecting their children. Money which they receive to take care of their children may be funneled into other measures.

Drugs luxury items status symbols tv's and other things which don't really help the child. I mean... if showing your kid love is buying them a new pair of nike's I think I will shoot myself. If the person had a threat to their ability to afford that new pair of shoes or to buy their methadone every week then maybe they would be less inclined to go through with their pregnancy.

I had this discussion with someone else... They brought up the point that no matter what children are a large drain on a persons income. But if the burden was placed on the state to provide for the basic needs at a large drain to excess expences to provide for the basic foundation for which a child needs to live. Then the parents income would be going directly back into their progeny. Which means the parents would be going into parent hood knowing that they would be sacrificing for the well being of their child.

While it doesn't ensure parents will be good parents... nothing but experience can really relay that... at least children wouldn't be starving.

Quote:

Ishtar Shakti

I don't think anyone should have children until they are financially responsible enough to actually take care of them and have leisure time to invest in children. I don't think having children for religious purposes or because you refuse to use protection or for any number of reasons justifies you as a good parent.

I feel that to deny the joy of parenthood to people because they do not make what we would consider enough money harms more than it benefits. When we speak of being financially responsible, what are we really saying? Are we going to exclude the family who has suffered bankruptcy because the main income earner was killed by a drunk driver? Do we deny a couple who have to pay expensive medical bills for a mother's father who has been struck with cancer? Do we deny a woman who was raped the right to not punish an innocent life for what someone did to her?

I think your mistaking what I am saying, as it would be a Tax increase vs. a deductable it wouldn't be based off income brakets whether you could have children. It would be a simple deterent.
There wouldn't be a mimimum quotent as to what a person had to make to be a parent... it would pretty much be leaving them with very little money to spend on any excess items.
I'm Socialistic... this means that I think that housing and food should also be given to people along with health care but in exchange for this I think that people shouldn't be able to spend money on leisure items such as entertainment or expensive clothing. While this will never come to pass and I am well aware of it I Still hold these opinions. Anyone can have kids as long as they know that it Will cost them those new shoes etc.
Responsibility is knowing that you have a burden and you will have to take care of that burden.
If a person is Not responsible... Cannot provide basic food shelter for their children then I Don't think they are fit parents. If you hug your child every night it does not put food in their stomachs. The most wonderful parent in the world... and their children die does it bring back the child? Does it take back the suffering that child went through?
The only thing that can be completely assured is the physical well being of the child. Children are taken away from parents for a number of reasons... sadly its much harder to judge the mental harm that is done to a child. With implementig programs that allow parents to be parents... but give them the Means to take care of their children while taking away the ability to have leisure activites... It makes Sense to me.

Quote:

Do you feel it is good to exclude a couple that both work in order to provide those basic needs, thus meeting the fiscal burden while falling short of the time to spend with the children?

If the taxs are directly funneled back into the children in such a way they pay for the state to take the fiscal burden. It would only cut into excess things. They would be working extra hours to go to the movies or buy something extra. Something not necessary. This time might be better spent with their children. In this case its a conscious choice on their parts.

Quote:

What amount of money is enough? Is it a certain percent above the poverty line the standard? How would you feel about those who are able to provide for their children, by using gardens, building houses that while safe, do not meet the standard building codes?

Again my answer is to provide housing

Quote:

Ishtar Shakti

I Feel BAD for children. Because parents who aren't ready who might be extremely loving cannot provide for them. All the love in the world won't give your child a sandwhich when they go to school and school provided lunches don't provide for when the child goes home.

Food banks, gardens, soup kitchens and other aid can make up for the shortfall when it comes to income.

And what pays to support these programs accept taxs?

Quote:

Ishtar Shakti

The state ends up taking care of children. The state ends up allowing parents to be irresponsible. I would rather have people have Some sort of incentive for them not to have kids before they have kids then underestimate the level of effort it takes and the repercussions of their actions and just expect the state to be able to care for the kids if they can't.

One of the important criticisms that has been made against these kinds of incentive programs has been that it functions as a eugenics program against the poor. It's a way to kill off whole families of what are considered by those with power to be undesirables. In this case, what would make them undesirable by the standards presented would be their income.

Accept not. The program is designed to provide for the poor at the expense of unnecesary items

Quote:

Ishtar Shakti

I am for Taxing, or for providing people with an easy and consistent means to not have children for free. Pretty much give people free birth control and make it free and easily accessible at any pharmacy or store without a prescription. Birth control is expensive and I've known alot of people who got pregnant because they didn't have money to afford it and then who decided to keep the child and carry it to term even though they had no financial stability and no way to actually take care of the child and they Weren't good parents and it fell on everyone else they knew to actually take care of the child. I've known children who were raped who were drinking since they were 6 who lived off of hand outs from their friends for lunch every day. Who hid from child protective services because they loved their drunkard of a father who couldn't take care of them.

I feel that rape is a horrible thing for anyone to suffer, but being poor did not cause the rape, the rapist did. I also feel that the issue regarding drug or alcohol abuse by a parent will not be solved by ensuring that the family can pay the tax. I feel that people who abuse substances can be found across the whole spectrum of income.

By making it so that the person can not afford the drug will make it so that the person can not imbibe the drug

I Do understand that rich people do drugs. Sadly... their isn't very much that can be done in this case accept if their are problems in the home and the child self reports the child may be taken away. Self reporting though has alot of issues... and increased means for children to have a voice also need to be considered

Quote:

Ishtar Shakti

Things happen... but parent hood is a heavy burden and bringing a child into a life of misery and unhappiness doesn't HELP the child.

I feel you are right on this- but I also feel the solution doesn't center on income.

Then what would you propose

Quote:

Ishtar Shakti

I don't think it would become a status symbol because Rich people or well of people may opt out of children to save their own money amass wealth etc.

I feel that children are already being used as a status symbol.

This article is a good commentary on it.
Slate

Will read later

Quote:

Ishtar Shakti

Also I think that the money raised through taxs should go directly into ensuring the childs well being. Raising taxs to help children and fund the programs which are suffering that people take for granted.

I have found in my area that it is easier to pass a prison levy than a school levy, and in states that require a vote for what money will be paid to where, the tax garnered by prospective parents will likely face the same ends.

I know... thats why proper funneling of resources would be the key foundation the proposed tennents would have to rest on.

Parents would know that their money would be directly making their lives easier thus they would opt to have their taxs go directly into these programs. It again is insentives... You have to give a person a reason to desire what is in their own interests. In this case... give a person a reason to desire what is in their childrens interests

If you were going to make a argument against this the easiest one that I can find.. and the argument against most socialistic programs would be people trying to leech of the system and what happens if the parent then refuses to work or can't work.

The worst thing that can happen is that the parent looses their job has little incentive to work and has their children taken from them. Thus kicked out of the system... and lacks a place to live.

This is the bad aspect to these types of programs...  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Ishtar Shakti

Because you can deal with your problems. Proactive measures coping strategies which are healthy counseling. Alot of people create a sort of self defeating miasma of beliefs which tell themselves that this is the way things are and their is nothing I can do to change this.

I feel it is important to note that not everyone has the resources to develop the kinds of strategies they need.

Ishtar Shakti

I mentioned this. I understand that people may not be able to afford healthy foods. But I also know that people don't research what they are eating. Don't take measures to try to grow their own food etc. and don't limit their food intake

I was looking forward to having a small garden at my apartment complex. My landlord told me I was not allowed. I looked to sign up with a community garden program for low income families, but I am not eligible because of where I live and there is literally nothing for me. If I choose to move to a location where I can qualify, my monthly debt will rise over seven hundred dollars.

I spend the little extra on quality frozen vegetables, and choose whole grains when I can. I walk a great deal and I limit my calories. I am in a much better situation than others.

Ishtar Shakti

You also don't take into account the vast array of people who do have grocery stores and still refuse to eat anything that might even resemble something healthy. Foods filled with sugar and are highly processed.

I feel that maenad nuri isn't dismissing this, but instead she and others are hurt by the notion that the physical trait was being attacked, and as a result, many people who do try to be healthy are being focused on because of how they look, what they can afford...

Ishtar Shakti

I have never been to a place where they don't at least have frozen vegetables or some sort of naturally grown produce.

I have. I spent much of my youth in very poor parts of town where the nearest grocery store is miles away, and the convenience store doesn't carry anything healthy.

Ishtar Shakti

I watch person after person decide they would rather buy a candy bar and soda then drink water and eat vegetables. I have never been to a place where their was not some option of health food.

I feel you are very blessed in this regard. I also feel it is important to note that availability is not the only resource that goes into making these decisions though.

Ishtar Shakti

Mostly the people who I have a problem with are people in the Upper Class Because they have the worst freaken diets and they have the means to provide otherwise. They then spend tons of money on supplements and other dietary aids to try to offset the disgustingly poor eating habits they've developed.

I feel that Nicole Darmon and Adam Drewnowski's study on this actually contradicts your conclusion about the quality of diet and economic class. Could you explain from where your conclusions are drawn? I feel it would be unfair to develop animosity based on a small group of people known personally if the group as a whole isn't engaging in the kinds of things that cause animosity.

Ishtar Shakti

My mother does this. I wish her parents had in some way tought her that food did not equal happiness. I would prefere if someone had interveined and tought her better coping strategies and I wish my grandmother was not codependent and had left my grandfather like she planned to.

I feel that this isn't a cognitive issue. Food as medication is a chemical process, a biological nature within humanity that historically had not been possible. My personal experience is not that there was ever the thought that food could create happiness, but instead, the chemical processes that take place when we digest certain foods in the brain release different chemicals that have a positive effect on mood.

Ishtar Shakti

I find that food based self medication is a horrible bi-product of neglectful parenting and abuse. This needs to be changed. It happens even today... and the parental actions such as bribing a child with a candy bar or a snack instead of a hug makes it worse. To give a child food instead of love is just... Terrible! It needs to be changed and addressed.

Unfortunately I do not see this as the issue. I was not bribed with food, nor deprived of signs of affection. Instead, because of biological processes, I sought out what I knew would provide comfort in the absence of feeling good- and it was not always my parents fault, though it was sometimes.

Ishtar Shakti

This is an entirely different issue. Couch potato children are a different subset of societal issues and norms which are adopted in some families. I meet people who that is their only interaction with their parents. It is the only time in which bonding may occure.
For the most part... This was my interaction with my mother. I was left to myself all day. I wandered the neighborhood for hours on end mostly playing in the woods. She couldn't afford anyone to watch me and my brother was abusive thus I was left to my own devices for hours and hours during the day.
If an accident occured then I was on my own as well but I learned how to fend for myself outside and not die soo all is well.
The only time I spent with my mom was when we watched a single TV show everynight together as a family and then she would go to her room and I wouldn't see her for hours on end. If my brother decided it was a good idea to strangle me no one was there. When I did go to my mom she would tell me not to upset my brother and he would say that I put him up to it.

Everyone has issues its how people choose to deal with them. I decided to stay as far away from home as possible to avoid getting hit strangled and otherwise mal treated. My mother never tought me how to deal with my issues and as a subsequent problem I ended up having to learn on my own what worked and what didn't work and because I was spending soo much time outside I ended up meeting alot of other children who had alot of other problems.

I am sorry, but I really do not feel there is a difference between not being able to go outside and thus spending a great deal of time sitting in my living room and a family choosing to have bonding centered in the living room since both feature choices made that restrict the actions of the child.

Ishtar Shakti

I don't think penalyzing them would work either. They need counseling they need Programs they need support and if I can't trust parents to do this for them then some other institution needs to be put in place to provide this need. I mean soo many kids suffer neglect...

I feel that when you say you hate people like me because of our weight, you are penalizing us.

Ishtar Shakti

I find the problem to be the parents Not the children. The symtom is the children... the parents are the ones who need to change and forming some way to dissuade people from being parents in the first place is what I see as the first step.

I would be able to agree with this easier if it didn't involve saying you hate people because of what weight we are.
The symptoms you described are found across age, gender, social status and a number of other groupings.

Ishtar Shakti

I would rather Less children with parents who have a better economic stand point who can provide for their kids and more programs that are meant to cater directly to children needs. Of course I would also want people to choose where their taxs go. Choose what percent goes to what aspect of government so that proper channeling of resources can be had.

I feel that the right to determine what happens to my body should never be taken away from me, this includes my right to feel safe and not be hurt, my right to make my own medical decisions and my right to choose to have children or not to have children.

Ishtar Shakti

If the increased taxs went directly to providing food for children when they went home, nutritious food sources actual Guidance of nutional needs that I would be really happy.

I feel that the use of money as the standard by which people may or may not determine their rights to their body will not give the results you are seeking.

Ishtar Shakti

Parents which are Stressed who have to work double shifts who have to work in their off hours on programs and things... they don't have time to take care of their children. If they don't have time institutions need to be made to provide a place for kids outside of being stranded at the home. Money needs to be allocated for this from Somewhere!

I feel, having explored the taxes in my area that money is being allocated for this.

I am still deeply hurt by your words- that you hate me simply because I am not a size ten.  

[Brass Bell Doll]

Ishtar Shakti, would you feel that the risk of your hate bringing on eating disorders is worth the possibility of seeing change in those who are exposed to it?