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 Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:23 pm
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 12:34 pm
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In the interest of amusing myself, I'm going to run a good go at the posts.
Saint Of Demons I have been looking at The German Furthark runes and studying them, and I must say they have changed my view on things but the religion I don't really like.
And which religion are you addressing?
Quote: Although I do NOT believe in any amount of deities NOR do I WANT to because what I believe that humans ARE alone in the sense of guidance but I do believe there to be 'demons', 'angels', and other more human entities that exist for the sole purpose to interfere whether it be 'demons' to tear everything apart and add a sense of chaos to the world. 'Angels' who put a false sense of hope and protection to cover up the corruption that truly exists. Or human entities that do the same as 'demons' but on a smaller scale only striking fear and revenge.
Is it possible that you have a skewed concept of what deities do?
I mean, the Shepard of Humanity image is very much part of the popular theology in English speaking countries and many pagans and heathens assert no such status for their gods.
Quote: I am however very interested and attracted to magic whether it be ceremonial magic or just low magic.
Interesting. Short of Crowly-Oly stuff, not sure how one would remove CM from YHVH's practices safely.
Quote: I have been looking up White, Gray, and Black witches. I am slightly confused on these if someone could please explain.
White Witches are people who have a skin disorder.
Black Witches are genetically resistant to the Sun's Rays.
Grey Witches are completely alien to me.
Quote: I am drawn to the much darker aspects of life and believe that humans cannot be pure only evil and negative.
I can think of a few to the contrary.
Quote: Aside from these as somebody who wants to learn I am equally interested in symbols of any religion. From the pentagram to the cross to the hexagram. So a practice that involves symbols would probably entice me.
Why?
And how do you feel about decontextualization of such symbols?
Quote: I would prefer a practice that involves solitude. I am not a person to go into a 'cult' if you will and practice with others.
Might I suggest you start working through the reading list here in the Rehab Guild?
Quote: Now at the same time I would like it to be adaptable to maybe a few others say a partner (girlfriend/wife for me) or a friend or to.
At this point, I sudder.
This is the classic Neo-Guru approch.
No one shall have authority over Me, but I shall have authority over those I rope into practice with me.
Quote: Also...what are the dark arts?
This is my favorite kind of Dark Art.
Although- Stary Night is also wonderful.
Quote: Sounds like something i might like but it also sounds like it ties in with the Christian god of evil satan...explanation please?
Why?
I have to ask at this point, what makes you so interested in the "Darker Side".
Estrella Eterna But a "white witch" would practice magic that isn't used for personal gain or harms anything.
Quote: Erm...I know that some people use angels and demons in ceremonial magic. Can't remember the name and I don't recommend it (based on personal experience) but you can look into that if you want.
I'm curious what these experiences might be.
Quote: The dark arts? Where did you get that from? I suppose that it might involve Satan...look into Satanism if you want. There's about a billion different kinds.
Rookherst[KOS] I can't understand why people think this equivocation of the meaning behind this term is clever at all. Initially the idea of "magic having colors" seemed Silly to me; then it was clear to me that it was more of an Ethical thing.
Light = Known, Safe Good. Dark = Unknown- which means it might be unsafe, which makes it Bad.
Quote: Or as others have said to me they see it as (and I quote) "Using the negative and destructive natures of the 5 Elements to achieve the same ends" I finally concluded that it was much like the Concept of a Jedi and a Dark Jedi. They both use the same force; but different accepts for ultimately the same end. (did I just reveal how much of a nerd I am?)
Yes. Yes you have.
Quote: It's in the same Category of religions as "Cuniformism" and "Latinaz". lol
Quote: I suggest Going to your Local Metaphysics Shop and asking where they hide their Grimoires.
Geez Rook. You should know this stuff!
Quote: I'm interested why you make the distinction in the case of the snake, and which aspect you think it embodies. Poor Snake always gets the shaft when it comes to dolling out symbolic significance.
The Crown of the Pharaoh, the Bowl of Hygieia, the Caduceus and Rod of Asclepius, The Chinese Zodiac and Ouroboros. Hey! Just look at the Festival of Nagpanchami!
And that isn't even going into the Gnostic Voice of Enlightenment which lead mankind of Knowledge.
Quote: In hermetic Philosophy the Dark arts are "Goetia" or magic which functions by alliance with Demons and such.
Do you feel Demon with it's modern cultural meaning is an apt term?
Quote: Generally though "Dark arts" is a Fluffy way of saying "Left Handed Path"
Saint Of Demons what you asked about the snake, i grew up in a christian family and just think the symbol as evil power....hard to shake it off...
It'd be easier than having to rewire your brain.
Saint Of Demons Ok I've been looking through some a lot of s**t on the internet...can't believe how much crap there is out there...
For some reason I cannot get The Stolen Child by W. B. Yeats out of my head.
Quote: anyways i found this website...i've read the first couple paragraphs and it has appealed to me...but i wanted someone with more 'wisdom' to take a look at it and tell me if it's true not just some fluffy crap... Website: http://www.chaostatic.com/paradigm/writings/black-witchcraft.php also i am slightly confused on some of it, i know if i choose to take this path all would be revealed but i don't want to rent/buy books and then find out that it isn't something i wanna do and then i've just wasted valuable time/money
Try your local library.
Have you looked through www.sacred-texts.org yet?
Rook>> Are we speaking strictly from a Biblical standpoint?
Further- I would say that Lucifer as the lightbringer would be perferct for this kid.
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:19 pm
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 1:46 pm
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Saint Of Demons out of curiousity how long did it take you to complete that post?
Quote: not sure which kind although i don't think it was the Anglo-Saxon' the viking religion...which unless i'm mistaken ties into the runes?
Vikings were Christians, Vanatru, Asatru, some of them were Celts and worshipped Celtic Deities... Viking is a verb, not a people.
As a result, I think it is fair to say you are mistaken.
Although I find it interesting that you aren't interested in gods when many of the Mysteries within the Futhark (or, by chance the Futhorc) are tied directly to gods.
Quote: yea i guess it is possible...i've only been out of the christian religion for just about 6 months....it's still slightly fresh in my mind...i guess i still view gods the way christians view theirs not as pagans view them...how is it different?
Depends on the Pagan or Heathen.
One of the interesting aspects of the Norse Gods is that they aren't immortal, perfect or all powerful. Hell, some of them aren't even all that bright.
The Bulk of CM- which largely draws from Jewish and Christian mysticism.
Quote: those link names made me laugh lol
Good.
Quote: i just find them interesting....problem there?
Not a problem really. Just oh so First Stage Fluffyism.
From a generic psychological standpoint, the assertion of self-identity by operating contrary to your primary environment is rather common. I was just hoping there would be something more interesting behind it.
Quote: i value the insights of others but i find working in a group setting say more than 4-5 people to be...distracting...my mind starys when too many people surround me when i try to concentrate
Quote: the what approch? not authority over but equality....i may have said that i tad wrong...
It's a common step for folks who go from a position without authority to a position of authority especially if the individuals they are working with have a limited or nonexistent understanding of the practice.
Quote: i'm not sure i've just always been attracted to the "darker side" of things....i even cried when i saw Darth Vader die in the 6th star wars episode sweatdrop i was like 4....but not when any of the good people died...but that's just a movie right....
Vader was a redemption story.
If I was to hazard a guess, I would suggest that the expectations you were raised with in Christendom were too high (and inaccurate- but that is another thread), and as a result, if you could not attain "salvation" you would feel more comfortable with the lower expectations of the "alterative", that is to say "If Heaven won't take me, then Hell will". As a result, the "darker" side of these appeals as it is culturally linked to the infernal.
Quote: i can "rewire" my brain...i just need to know for sure what i need to rewire it too
That aside, maybe you don't need to jump ship on Christendom. Gnostic Practices as Rook pointed out might appeal as might some of the other more esoteric sects.
Quote: so your suggesting a take the Luciferian Witchcraft path?
Lucifer as the Light Bringer is a reference to Yeshua ben Yoseph and the King of Babylon. |
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:13 pm
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 2:38 pm
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Saint Of Demons i am interested in them as i am of Norse decent so i wanted to read up more on it...
Okay, and what did you learn? ~hopes you weren't reading Blume or Conway...~
Quote: i was under the impression that they were pagan until they settled down in England....
Quote: ...you lost me...again...
Ceremonial Magic(k).
Quote: not everything has an interesting story behind it...
Sadly true.
Quote: the reason i sit alone when i am unable to surround myself with my friends...you could say i am weak and scared of my surroundings but you would be mistaken...that is another story though...
And yet I said neither.
My point remains. If there is a problem, one should fix it.
Besides- Magic 101 is Centering and Grounding (and Shielding).
Quote: your guess sounds better....
Okay- if that is the case and this is allegory, what conclusions do you come to?
Quote: great now your going to scrutenize my spelling errors...i understand that it is single O in that sense...
If you would like, I can start correcting all your posts.
While no one is expected to be perfect, a bit more effort on your part will make it easier for those of us who are dyslexic to read and understand what you are writing.
And the quote function makes it so I don't have to keep an extra window open in order to respond to your posting style.
Quote: err...i don't believe that christianity holds anything...
Oh look! I was cryptic and metaphorical!
However, what you know about Christendom I could write on the head of a pin. This isn’t meant to be offensive so much as a simple statement of fact.
Even though I am not what most would call a Christian, even I can see the beauty and merit in the theology. Perhaps you haven’t been looking hard enough at the theology of your upbringing. |
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 3:05 pm
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 4:27 pm
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Saint Of Demons that's just what i believe, as i said i'm still fresh out of christianity, that is why i am here to find out what i should re-wire my mind with...instead of what i used to think to be the truth... i can "rewire" my brain...i just need to know for sure what i need to rewire it too
Why not have some patience and be a Seeker for awhile? There's nothing wrong with that. There's no need to just jump from one tradition to another--unless you're really lucky, you'll likely find that the new thing doesn't satisfy you any better than the old thing.
Why rely on pre-existing traditions at all? There's really no good reason to assume that your one true soul-mate of a religion is waiting out there for you. I'm not advocating salad-bar Neo-paganism, but I do advocate creativity and thinking for yourself. If you design your own religion to your specifications, you have everything you want right there. If Christianity's truth didn't work for you, try defining your own truth instead of having a knee-jerk reaction and going haring off after others' truths.
Even if it is waiting for you, you don't have to save yourself for it--in fact, maybe you won't discover it until you've grown as a person some more and gotten to a next stage of your life. There's nothing wrong with that either. You say you've looked hard, done a lot of research--well, good for you, but whatever quantity that was, you can always do more, and should. The glass ceiling of knowledge is only as low as your dedication and preconceptions.
Rook mentioned negative theology in another thread. Right now it sounds like the sum of your thoughts are "Not anything that Christianity is"--and you're either not going to find any religion that exactly meets those needs, or that's not actually what you want and you need to sit still and clear your head before doing some serious self-reflection.
And your beliefs will change, and there's nothing wrong with that either. The people who have a truly fulfilling religion are the ones who never stop working on it and interacting with it and using the tools it provides and communing with its powers (if any); and if their beliefs change over time and the name and community and so forth of their religion changes at all, they still have spiritual fulfillment because they are aware of the process and it is their truth that is important to them, not endlessly hopping from one ill-fitting box to another or putting up with an unsatisfactory outlook because they don't know any better or they thought they had found The Answer and stopped paying attention.
Also keep in mind that Tea and Rook's suggestions are starting points. Go do the research--and if the information you're finding isn't making sense, do more research until either it becomes clear or you understand why it doesn't fit you. It's not Tea's job to do it for you.
Saint Of Demons I won't go into detail as to why it doesn't apply but it doesn't and to me makes no sense at all
Saint Of Demons Unless you will help and give suggestions off my first post please leave
Saint Of Demons Please give help if you can instead of disecting my posts and pointing out every little bit of information that is wrong.
Saint Of Demons I am new to pagan practises and religions if you did not notice and do not know everything you do.
Saint Of Demons ok...just out of curiousity are there any witchcraft practises that do not involve a hierarchy god? |
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:30 pm
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 5:33 pm
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Quote: Why ask? They always keep them in their sock drawer. Geez Rook. You should know this stuff!
tsch. You ruined the Joke! It's the oldest mystic Practical Joke ever, get someone to ask "where the Grimoires are hidden" and then only receive the answer "in the sock drawer".
way to go. *huff*
Quote: Not always. The Crown of the Pharaoh, the Bowl of Hygieia, the Caduceus and Rod of Asclepius, The Chinese Zodiac and Ouroboros. Hey! Just look at the Festival of Nagpanchami! And that isn't even going into the Gnostic Voice of Enlightenment which lead mankind of Knowledge.
Ya. I was going to counter crap about the Snake being "evil" citing all that stuff, thanks for beating me to the punch crying
Quote: Do you feel Demon with it's modern cultural meaning is an apt term?
To be honest, I think i might Prefer sticking "Socratic" or "Platonic" in front of the word, which would force people to actually....figure out that it isn't referencing something from the Blade movies.
Quote: Rook>> Are we speaking strictly from a Biblical standpoint
In references to what?
I guess, I mean...I just can never back Luciferanism. Not until I find a Lucifarian Group which actually Acknowledges his Gnostic Roots.
And Even then, in here case I would still suggest a More Hermetic path. |
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 6:56 pm
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:15 pm
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 7:25 pm
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Rookherst[KOS] Saint Of Demons Ok idk whether my friend is just ******** up or what but I asked him about some options in this and he said that summoning demons was possible and that you could comand them to do your bidding, give you knowledge, "torture" your enemies, ect. if you had the experience...this isn't true is it? From what I've seen is that when you summon a "demon" they don't listen too well....and that they only stay in the triangle of Soloman....idk if any of that's true but that's what I've read... Details of how to accomplish such tasks are outlined in the Lesser and Greater keys of Solomon, and the Ars Goteia. Mostly, if you want the Former accomplished you have to achieve the latter. For example: If you want Beleth to do anything for you gota get him in that Triangle; and then show him proper respect * *which means flashing your awesome silver ring which is used to command and protect oneself from Amaymon. I SERIOUSLY would not recommend doing any of this; even I know all the proper ways and rituals but do not preform them (i'm a wuss, who knows he is accident prone)
hmmmm so you can do it?
this sounds more like something i'd be into....after i of course learn the basics and everything before this...
what does this branch off of? ceremonial magic?
he gave me this website http://demons.monstrous.com/demonclass_3.htm
when you click on a name it tells you about the demon...some have magic options some don't...are they true?
So I don't end up asking millions of questions is there a book or somthing that details more information? Or maybe a book that would prepare me to do this? stuff along those lines |
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:17 pm
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If I so wish...
or was that "you" a result of Passive tense?
Quote: this sounds more like something i'd be into....after i of course learn the basics and everything before this... what does this branch off of? ceremonial magic?
Ya. Ceremonial Magic.
That site screams fluff, and I've always been apprehensive to trust my "Mystikal Nowledges" from a site.
it would better to locate and learn strait from the source material:
Ars Theurgia Goetia
Ars Paulina
Ars Almadel
Ars Notoria
Otherwise known as "The Lesser Key of Solomon"
By the way, that site barely has anything in Common with the "Pseudomonarchia Daemonum"
Quote: So I don't end up asking millions of questions is there a book or somthing that details more information? Or maybe a book that would prepare me to do this? stuff along those lines
I've just listed a few.
Go to any Bookstore, or Metaphysics Shops and ask for either the Lesser Key of Solomon Grimoirs or the Grimoirs "Ars Goetia" |
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Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2007 8:26 pm
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Rookherst[KOS] If I so wish... or was that "you" a result of Passive tense? Quote: this sounds more like something i'd be into....after i of course learn the basics and everything before this... what does this branch off of? ceremonial magic? Ya. Ceremonial Magic. That site screams fluff, and I've always been apprehensive to trust my "Mystikal Nowledges" from a site. it would better to locate and learn strait from the source material: Ars Theurgia Goetia Ars Paulina Ars Almadel Ars Notoria Otherwise known as "The Lesser Key of Solomon" By the way, that site barely has anything in Common with the "Pseudomonarchia Daemonum" Quote: So I don't end up asking millions of questions is there a book or somthing that details more information? Or maybe a book that would prepare me to do this? stuff along those lines I've just listed a few. Go to any Bookstore, or Metaphysics Shops and ask for either the Lesser Key of Solomon Grimoirs or the Grimoirs "Ars Goetia"
ok...is there anything i should learn and "master" before i attempt these? say lower magic and stuff? just to get accustomed to performing magic?
you mention greater key of solomon...or is that for after i read the others?
are they hard to understand? like say big words (childish way of putting it sweatdrop ) or anything like that?
and I'm curious as to what are the risks/results say i should fail or provoke a demon?
and yes that was passive tense of 'you'
i don't have to learn a language to accomplish these do i? like say latin?
(yea million questions.... sweatdrop ) |
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Reply
![Rookherst[KOS]'s avatar](https://a1cdn.gaiaonline.com/dress-up/avatar/ava/1c/32/2b1f6af436321c_flip.png?t=1193918574_6.00_11)