Are fantasy books disrespected?

[ckmidnight]

Oh, thats horrible! "escape from reality"? That souns like a fantasy book! Hey... nope, no new theories.  

[portofships]

koorimefiregirl

Lets see. My english teacher in highschool, my mother, and my grandmother all diss fantasy books. My teacher said it was because fantasy is an "escape from reality" my mom thinks they're stupid(she's never read one) and my grandmother tried to get me into reading romance novels(I resisted). You're not alone in thinking fantasy as a genre does not get much respect. Poeple just don't understand it or are not comfortable exploring worlds that are so different than their soap operas.

Wow. THAT sucks. I really hate it when people read nothing but romance or soap operas. It's not that there is anything wrong with it, it's just...limited. Like you're not interested in anything else. But this goes for just about any genre. You need a little variety.

But you do have point, some people are very narrow minded and only stick with what they know. Which is unfortunate, to say the least.  

[Candy Quackenbush]

They're no more disrespected than the "soap-operaish romance or a girly fluff" type books. Seriously, I would have agreed with you right until then. However, I find your argument pretty hypocritical. Yes, they should try to incorporate different kinds of books to mix it up a little, but you shouldn't insult the ones they read. That might be why your friend got made fun of: Because they think of you in the same way you think of them.  

[ckmidnight]

no, the "girly- fluff" books are actually pretty widely respected, because every girly girl who isnt addicted to fantasy reads them. If I hadnt been introduced to fantasy at a young age, I could've ended up reading those.
And people who laugh at other peoples reading choices instead of trying to accept them (including us) are basically just meanies or being pressured into it by someone else.  

[Maze353]

NightIntent

Well, my mom has declared, on several occasions, that the books I read are not "real books." She wants me to read classics, which I would read... except she told me they're real books and that's the only reason I should read them. You know what books I think aren't "real books?" Romance novels. Most of the ones I've read (and yes, I have read a good few of them) have a token plot and mainly revolve around sex between the main character and the main love interest. Sometimes multiple love interests. Not to say I haven't found some really good romance books--I have. But still, the majority of the romance books I read are dumb. Do people make fun of romance readers publicly? Not really.

And that's why I don't join book clubs. Almost never do the people in book clubs read books that I would like.

My mom say the same thing. It is always "why don't you read a real book?" or "when are you going to read a good book?" Drives me nuts. She mostly reads romance, not the ones w/ plots but the borderline porn ones.



People who mock and dismiss fantasy fail to see is the fantasy books give use a insight to the human condition. These books deal with good and evil, doing the right thing, the corruption of power, redemption, so on and so forth. There have even been studies by several universities on how fantasy effects people's ideas, morals, and views of right and wrong.  

[portofships]

Candy Quackenbush

They're no more disrespected than the "soap-operaish romance or a girly fluff" type books. Seriously, I would have agreed with you right until then. However, I find your argument pretty hypocritical. Yes, they should try to incorporate different kinds of books to mix it up a little, but you shouldn't insult the ones they read. That might be why your friend got made fun of: Because they think of you in the same way you think of them.

...I'm sorry, but you should call something as it is. And the books they read are soap opera-ish romance and girly fluff. I'm not insulting them, that's just what they are. For example "The Painted Veil" and "True believer" would fall under soap operaish romance, and the "Shopoholic" series would fall under girly fluff. These are books that we've either read or have been suggested. At least we don't laugh in their faces at their preferences and tolerate their obsession with romance, which is a hell of a lot more than what I can say for them.  

[Candy Quackenbush]

portofships

Candy Quackenbush

They're no more disrespected than the "soap-operaish romance or a girly fluff" type books. Seriously, I would have agreed with you right until then. However, I find your argument pretty hypocritical. Yes, they should try to incorporate different kinds of books to mix it up a little, but you shouldn't insult the ones they read. That might be why your friend got made fun of: Because they think of you in the same way you think of them.

...I'm sorry, but you should call something as it is. And the books they read are soap opera-ish romance and girly fluff. I'm not insulting them, that's just what they are. For example "The Painted Veil" and "True believer" would fall under soap operaish romance, and the "Shopoholic" series would fall under girly fluff. These are books that we've either read or have been suggested. At least we don't laugh in their faces at their preferences and tolerate their obsession with romance, which is a hell of a lot more than what I can say for them.

Jane Austen wrote what are essentially "soap opera romances", yet she's taught in pretty much every Brit Lit class in the world. Why? Because her work is literature, not something to be looked over with a brief statement of "Oh, it's romance so it must be crap." Which is what you and your friend were doing, whether or not you think so.

I'm not saying every romance novel in the world is a work of literature, far from it in fact, but they and their readers deserve respect. And I'm sorry but saying you don't "laugh out loud at their choices" while calling it girly fluff is the polar opposite of respect. It's down right intolerant. So, I can understand them making fun of fantasy books: If the only people they know who read them act like that, what are they supposed to think about the genre?

Oh, and one last thing where I disagree: You say calling something by what it is isn't insulting. Well, you got annoyed at your teacher because she said fantasy books are filled with "Sorcerers and dragons." Isn't that "calling it what it is"? My point is, before you get so angry at them for disrespecting fantasy, you should at least try to respect them.  

[Bookwyrme]

Candy, I think the big difference is that portofships is not telling others that they should not read what they are reading, where people are denigrating what she reads to her.

***

I think the objection to the "Sorcerers and dragons" comment is that the people who make it tend to assume that a) That is *all* fantasy is about and b) That the presence of a sorcerer or a dragon automatically makes the book childish.

**

That said, I hold to my original assertion: Overall, I think fantasy & romance are held in equally low esteem, though various groups have different views.

I mean, you can buy romance books at the grocery store, so they must be bad/cheap/for desperate housewives, right? (In the popular view, I mean).  

[portofships]

Candy Quackenbush

portofships

Candy Quackenbush

They're no more disrespected than the "soap-operaish romance or a girly fluff" type books. Seriously, I would have agreed with you right until then. However, I find your argument pretty hypocritical. Yes, they should try to incorporate different kinds of books to mix it up a little, but you shouldn't insult the ones they read. That might be why your friend got made fun of: Because they think of you in the same way you think of them.

...I'm sorry, but you should call something as it is. And the books they read are soap opera-ish romance and girly fluff. I'm not insulting them, that's just what they are. For example "The Painted Veil" and "True believer" would fall under soap operaish romance, and the "Shopoholic" series would fall under girly fluff. These are books that we've either read or have been suggested. At least we don't laugh in their faces at their preferences and tolerate their obsession with romance, which is a hell of a lot more than what I can say for them.

Jane Austen wrote what are essentially "soap opera romances", yet she's taught in pretty much every Brit Lit class in the world. Why? Because her work is literature, not something to be looked over with a brief statement of "Oh, it's romance so it must be crap." Which is what you and your friend were doing, whether or not you think so.

I'm not saying every romance novel in the world is a work of literature, far from it in fact, but they and their readers deserve respect. And I'm sorry but saying you don't "laugh out loud at their choices" while calling it girly fluff is the polar opposite of respect. It's down right intolerant. So, I can understand them making fun of fantasy books: If the only people they know who read them act like that, what are they supposed to think about the genre?

Oh, and one last thing where I disagree: You say calling something by what it is isn't insulting. Well, you got annoyed at your teacher because she said fantasy books are filled with "Sorcerers and dragons." Isn't that "calling it what it is"? My point is, before you get so angry at them for disrespecting fantasy, you should at least try to respect them.

Candy, I really don't think it matters if I think romance is utter s**t, as long as I keep it to myself and I don't insult their interests or force them to read something else. I wouldn't mind their hatred for fantasy if they didn't flat out IGNORE and DEGRADE our interests. My friends and I make up 2/3 of book club, yet she only takes the suggestions of the two people who like the same books she does. She should let us read at least one fantasy book since we out vote them 6 to 3. Yet she continues to pick books she knows we hate. THIS is where I have a problem. I don't care that she hates fantasy and loves romance. I wasn't trying to degrade romance, but constantly picking romance books when you know only 2 people like them and the other 6 don't because you love them and you hate fantasy is just flat out unfair. The whole "Sorcerers and Dragons" thing only added insult to injury. So don't put me on the same level as them, because I'm not the one forcing a genre they hate down their throats.

Also, I give every book they pick a try. Even if it is a romance. Sometimes I hate it, sometimes it's okay. But I always give them a chance. I may have 2 or 3 books on my shelf that I hate and will never read again, but I never judge the book until I've read some of it. With them, if any of us suggest a fantasy, they won't give it the time of day. They are quite literally: "Is it a fantasy?" "NO!.....well, yes" "then no".  

[Eoinda]

Not in general but there are a few idiots how think everyone who read fantasy are weird. Okay I think you should read all kinds of book at least if you are going to track down on anything. The liberian were wrong but I think people should read... what was it you called it soap-opera romances and girly fluff too at least one or two. Anyway to start a scifiction/fantasy club sounds as a great idea! 3nodding  

[Candy Quackenbush]

portofships

Candy, I really don't think it matters if I think romance is utter s**t, as long as I keep it to myself and I don't insult their interests or force them to read something else. I wouldn't mind their hatred for fantasy if they didn't flat out IGNORE and DEGRADE our interests. My friends and I make up 2/3 of book club, yet she only takes the suggestions of the two people who like the same books she does. She should let us read at least one fantasy book since we out vote them 6 to 3. Yet she continues to pick books she knows we hate. THIS is where I have a problem. I don't care that she hates fantasy and loves romance. I wasn't trying to degrade romance, but constantly picking romance books when you know only 2 people like them and the other 6 don't because you love them and you hate fantasy is just flat out unfair. The whole "Sorcerers and Dragons" thing only added insult to injury. So don't put me on the same level as them, because I'm not the one forcing a genre they hate down their throats.

Also, I give every book they pick a try. Even if it is a romance. Sometimes I hate it, sometimes it's okay. But I always give them a chance. I may have 2 or 3 books on my shelf that I hate and will never read again, but I never judge the book until I've read some of it. With them, if any of us suggest a fantasy, they won't give it the time of day. They are quite literally: "Is it a fantasy?" "NO!.....well, yes" "then no".

Point one: If you're going to lie about something, make sure it doesn't contradict something you've already said. Just putting that out there, because going by your first post there's no way your group makes up sixty percent of that club. You mentioned "you and your friend" whereas there was a librarian, an advisor, and a 'bunch' of eleventh graders who wanted to read the opposing genre. Also, your statement of 'finding other people to join a club' would suggest that you and your friend were again alone in this. I'm guessing in real life you really make up about a third of the club, most likely even less than that.

That aside, I still think your argument is full of contradictions. You claim you aren't forcing a genre down their throats, yet you continue to suggest fantasy books even though you know they hate them. (As an aside: you never said they stated that they've never read one. For all you know they could've and disliked the genre. Though, if you say that they said that now I'm not going to believe it, simply because you seem to switch around your story to fit your argument) Why not suggest an in-between? The Princess Bride is essentially a romance, but has many fantasy traits. It would've been a good compromise to make and wouldn't have been shot down so quickly. Also, there's historical fiction, classics, mysteries etc. You never mentioned suggesting any of these, so I'm presuming you just shouted out "fantasy!" over and over again. That's the same thing as forcing another genre they hate down their throats, whether or not they got picked.

Basically, I think you provoked a fight on your own, and got mad when people lashed out at you. I do think the people in your club should probably be a bit more open minded (If I could recommend a romance for a discussion, it wouldn't be Shopaholic simply because I don't think there's that much to it), but at the same time you shouldn't condemn them when you're guilty of the same sin.  

[portofships]

Candy Quackenbush

portofships

Candy, I really don't think it matters if I think romance is utter s**t, as long as I keep it to myself and I don't insult their interests or force them to read something else. I wouldn't mind their hatred for fantasy if they didn't flat out IGNORE and DEGRADE our interests. My friends and I make up 2/3 of book club, yet she only takes the suggestions of the two people who like the same books she does. She should let us read at least one fantasy book since we out vote them 6 to 3. Yet she continues to pick books she knows we hate. THIS is where I have a problem. I don't care that she hates fantasy and loves romance. I wasn't trying to degrade romance, but constantly picking romance books when you know only 2 people like them and the other 6 don't because you love them and you hate fantasy is just flat out unfair. The whole "Sorcerers and Dragons" thing only added insult to injury. So don't put me on the same level as them, because I'm not the one forcing a genre they hate down their throats.

Also, I give every book they pick a try. Even if it is a romance. Sometimes I hate it, sometimes it's okay. But I always give them a chance. I may have 2 or 3 books on my shelf that I hate and will never read again, but I never judge the book until I've read some of it. With them, if any of us suggest a fantasy, they won't give it the time of day. They are quite literally: "Is it a fantasy?" "NO!.....well, yes" "then no".

Point one: If you're going to lie about something, make sure it doesn't contradict something you've already said. Just putting that out there, because going by your first post there's no way your group makes up sixty percent of that club. You mentioned "you and your friend" whereas there was a librarian, an advisor, and a 'bunch' of eleventh graders who wanted to read the opposing genre. Also, your statement of 'finding other people to join a club' would suggest that you and your friend were again alone in this. I'm guessing in real life you really make up about a third of the club, most likely even less than that.

That aside, I still think your argument is full of contradictions. You claim you aren't forcing a genre down their throats, yet you continue to suggest fantasy books even though you know they hate them. (As an aside: you never said they stated that they've never read one. For all you know they could've and disliked the genre. Though, if you say that they said that now I'm not going to believe it, simply because you seem to switch around your story to fit your argument) Why not suggest an in-between? The Princess Bride is essentially a romance, but has many fantasy traits. It would've been a good compromise to make and wouldn't have been shot down so quickly. Also, there's historical fiction, classics, mysteries etc. You never mentioned suggesting any of these, so I'm presuming you just shouted out "fantasy!" over and over again. That's the same thing as forcing another genre they hate down their throats, whether or not they got picked.

Basically, I think you provoked a fight on your own, and got mad when people lashed out at you. I do think the people in your club should probably be a bit more open minded (If I could recommend a romance for a discussion, it wouldn't be Shopaholic simply because I don't think there's that much to it), but at the same time you shouldn't condemn them when you're guilty of the same sin.

I only mentioned that one friend because she was the one who was insulted and wants to start the club. Just because she was the only one I mentioned doesn't mean there weren't others. Since I wasn't very specific, I'll tell you the exact make up of the club: 2 grade 11s, 4 grade 10s, 2 grade 9s, one teacher, and the librarian isn't actually a part of the club, she only came over that one time. Also, you're starting to make a lot of assumptions about what you think may have happened. Words that are starting to come up in your arguments are "I'm guessing" and "I'm presuming" and "I think". And I will admit that I'm mostly to blame, since I haven't been very specific about what happened and I left a lot of things out, which I do a lot of the time when I'm arguing, so I suppose that doesn't make me very credible. sweatdrop But since I've obviously left a lot of things out and I'm not getting myself across to you as well I hoped, I'm going to take the time and type out every last detail about what happened. You can do with it what you like. I'm not going to post back again, since after this there's really nothing more I can say.

It was a Tuesday afternoon, and I headed to the library right after the dismissal bell rang. I waited there for a while until my friends and other members of book club and the teacher arrived. Ms. Horn put cookies and ju jubes on the table, asked us about our march break, asked us if we had read any good books, and started up our final discussion on "The Glass Castle". This one was my favorite book club book so far and I had a lot to say about it, as well as everyone else. After about 25 minutes, Ms. Horn ends the discussion and asks if anyone has suggestions. I had been waiting for this all day, since I had very carefully picked out 3 titles that I was sure would go over well. "The Time Traveller's Wife" which is a romance with a fantasy twist, "Wicked" which is a modern day fantasy more geered toward women, and "Confessions of an Ugly Stepsister" which is kind of a modern fairy tale. Unfortunately, they were shot down either because someone had already read them or they just didn't like it. One grade 11 girl suggested "True Believer" and "Shopoholic and Baby". Shopoholic and baby went on the list. My friend suggested "Way of the Peaceful Warrior" and that also went on the list. Then my friend Orange (we call her Orange because there are too many Sarahs) suggests "The Shakespeare Stealer". It sounds really interesting and it gets the vote of 4 of my friends except the one who already read it, and me. Then the librarian comes over with a box of new books for the library and Ms. Horn rummages around a little bit, and pulls out "Marie Antoinette: The Dairy" and immediately puts it on the list, gushing about how facinating the story is and how much she loves that time period. We put it to a vote: "The Shakespeare Stealer" or "Marie Antoinette: The Diary". "The Shakespeare Stealer" gets 5 votes and "Marie Antoinette: The Diary" gets 4. I high five Orange, thinking we got our pick and we're going to read Shakespeare Stealer. But then one of the grade 11s ask: "What about Kristen and Trisha's votes?". Kristen comes to book club once in a blue moon and Trisha only came to book club once. Neither of them came to the club meeting to vote. These girls are friends with the two grade 11s. When I say that Trisha shouldn't count because she only came once and we haven't seen her back, Ms. Horn waves her hand and says "Oh, Trisha's an honourary member". The two grade 11s say they'll ask Kristen and Trisha for their votes and they'll give them to Ms. Horn before the next meeting. Book club dismisses and Ms. Horn says she'll let us know which was picked. Monday morning over the PA, it is announced that book club will be starting "Marie Antoinette: The Diary" on Tuesday and all are welcome.

I left out the "Dragons and Sorcerers" thing, insults or anything else that would have made the story biased. But other than that, this is exactly what happened.

I didn't mean for this to be about me hating romance or disrespecting the type of books they read. I have no problem with their tastes in books. A few of the books they read are pretty good. But when they manipulate the vote to get what they want because they don't respect what we like to read is when I start having problems. That's all.  

[Tickle Toe Bob]

Yes, fantasy is disrespected. There are 2 reasons why, in my opinion:
1. My friends think I am weird because the books I read aren't those chick flick books that could really happen to somebody. I don't hate those kinds of books, but having somebody with powers or having mythical creatures in the book is so much better.
2. Teachers look down on these books! We have never read a fantasy book as class ever in my life. The books might be fiction, but they could be a real life story.  

[Shiama]

Actually the people i am surrounded by love the idea of fantasy and sci fi...but to many I can see where the nerdiness comes in. Still, it is someones personal opinion.

I think in diffrent peoples eyes diffrent genres are all looked down on, and in most it is reading in general that is looked down on.

but hey at least you have a book club!  

[Iconoclast Enthusiast]

I think that a lot of people look down on fantasy. I know my mom does, and I can get pretty pissed when we talk about it (more like I ask her why she thinks fantasy etc. is "a waste of time" and her not explaining herself).

However, around where I live, hardly any teens read anything, but I can't imagine most of them being fantasy fans. (It seems like their imaginations are dead.)

Is it just me, though, or is sci-fi more commonly accepted than fantasy?