Live 8

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Fourcolour

Tommy Vox

U2
Coldplay
Keane
elton john
Robbie williams
The Who
all where AMAZING!
if it doesnt make a difference the leaders dont deserve their posts as they dont listen to the people.

While I would agree I'm not sure aging rock-stars count as 'the people'...

i'm talking about the 250,000 people in edinburgh, the 200,000+ in hyde park the 1.6 million on the streets of philly, the 50,000 that watched from the screens across the U.K. the 50,000 at the eden project, the people at the Berlin, toronto, paris, rome, tokyo and Jo'bourg. Also i dont think you can call keane, coldplay, Robbie Williams, joss stone, the killers and so on aging rock-stars. cool  

[Fourcolour]

Tommy Vox

Fourcolour

Tommy Vox

U2
Coldplay
Keane
elton john
Robbie williams
The Who
all where AMAZING!
if it doesnt make a difference the leaders dont deserve their posts as they dont listen to the people.

While I would agree I'm not sure aging rock-stars count as 'the people'...

i'm talking about the 250,000 people in edinburgh, the 200,000+ in hyde park the 1.6 million on the streets of philly, the 50,000 that watched from the screens across the U.K. the 50,000 at the eden project, the people at the Berlin, toronto, paris, rome, tokyo and Jo'bourg. Also i dont think you can call keane, coldplay, Robbie Williams, joss stone, the killers and so on aging rock-stars. cool

That's still not a majority. I'm not saying the G8 shouldn't so as Make Poverty History want them to do, but I think it's dangerous to have rock stars dictate to politicians. On this occasion it's ok, since I think most people are all for dropping the debt and more aid to Africa.

Also, what was with Geldof saying 'We don't want your money! We want you!' Where does he think the money will come from? Taxes. Not that I have a problem with that, but at least be honest about it.  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Fourcolour

Tommy Vox

Fourcolour

Tommy Vox

U2
Coldplay
Keane
elton john
Robbie williams
The Who
all where AMAZING!
if it doesnt make a difference the leaders dont deserve their posts as they dont listen to the people.

While I would agree I'm not sure aging rock-stars count as 'the people'...

i'm talking about the 250,000 people in edinburgh, the 200,000+ in hyde park the 1.6 million on the streets of philly, the 50,000 that watched from the screens across the U.K. the 50,000 at the eden project, the people at the Berlin, toronto, paris, rome, tokyo and Jo'bourg. Also i dont think you can call keane, coldplay, Robbie Williams, joss stone, the killers and so on aging rock-stars. cool

That's still not a majority. I'm not saying the G8 shouldn't so as Make Poverty History want them to do, but I think it's dangerous to have rock stars dictate to politicians. On this occasion it's ok, since I think most people are all for dropping the debt and more aid to Africa.

Also, what was with Geldof saying 'We don't want your money! We want you!' Where does he think the money will come from? Taxes. Not that I have a problem with that, but at least be honest about it.

3 billion people watched it in total. ah huh well thats your opinion. thats cool. but i think as they are part of the global village they should be able to voice their opinions to our leaders.
what was with that was he wanted us at Live 8 and the protest at edinburgh the reason it was said was to show that it wasnt a Charity event it was a politcal call, a polical statement.
did you not see it flash up on the screen countless times?
'from charity to justice'
of course he knows that the aid will come out of taxes, but that isnt what he was talking about at the time it was about mobilising the people to the screens, edinburgh, hyde park, philly, rome etc.
i think everyone knows where the money comes from. 3nodding cool  

[A Lost Iguana]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[Fourcolour]

Tommy Vox

Fourcolour

Tommy Vox

Fourcolour

Tommy Vox

U2
Coldplay
Keane
elton john
Robbie williams
The Who
all where AMAZING!
if it doesnt make a difference the leaders dont deserve their posts as they dont listen to the people.

While I would agree I'm not sure aging rock-stars count as 'the people'...

i'm talking about the 250,000 people in edinburgh, the 200,000+ in hyde park the 1.6 million on the streets of philly, the 50,000 that watched from the screens across the U.K. the 50,000 at the eden project, the people at the Berlin, toronto, paris, rome, tokyo and Jo'bourg. Also i dont think you can call keane, coldplay, Robbie Williams, joss stone, the killers and so on aging rock-stars. cool

That's still not a majority. I'm not saying the G8 shouldn't so as Make Poverty History want them to do, but I think it's dangerous to have rock stars dictate to politicians. On this occasion it's ok, since I think most people are all for dropping the debt and more aid to Africa.

Also, what was with Geldof saying 'We don't want your money! We want you!' Where does he think the money will come from? Taxes. Not that I have a problem with that, but at least be honest about it.

3 billion people watched it in total. ah huh well thats your opinion. thats cool. but i think as they are part of the global village they should be able to voice their opinions to our leaders.
what was with that was he wanted us at Live 8 and the protest at edinburgh the reason it was said was to show that it wasnt a Charity event it was a politcal call, a polical statement.
did you not see it flash up on the screen countless times?
'from charity to justice'
of course he knows that the aid will come out of taxes, but that isnt what he was talking about at the time it was about mobilising the people to the screens, edinburgh, hyde park, philly, rome etc.
i think everyone knows where the money comes from. 3nodding cool

I just wonder how many of those watching watched because it was a huge, televised international festival and how many watched because they were genuinely concerned about global poverty.

Also, poverty is a completely relative term.  

[A Lost Iguana]

Fourcolour

I just wonder how many of those watching watched because it was a huge, televised international festival and how many watched because they were genuinely concerned about global poverty.

I am concered about global poverty; I did not watch Live8 and I am sick of musicians putting all the blame at the feet of the Western leaders. The G8 has its part to play but it cannot change the way Africa, herself, operates.

Geldof keeps brushing the role of African leaders to one side, accusing it of being a distraction and not the real problem, when it is a real problem.

Only that is not to simple to sell to the masses.

 

[Fourcolour]

A Lost Iguana

Fourcolour

I just wonder how many of those watching watched because it was a huge, televised international festival and how many watched because they were genuinely concerned about global poverty.

I am concered about global poverty; I did not watch Live8 and I am sick of musicians putting all the blame at the feet of the Western leaders. The G8 has its part to play but it cannot change the way Africa, herself, operates.

Geldof keeps brushing the role of African leaders to one side, accusing it of being a distraction and not the real problem, when it is a real problem.

Only that is not to simple to sell to the masses.

Exactly. Quick fixes are not possible in this situation. It's going to take some serious legwork, and I'm afraid many of the people supporting it now will remove their support when they realise just what an epic effort this will be.  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

Fourcolour

Tommy Vox

Fourcolour

Tommy Vox

Fourcolour

Tommy Vox

U2
Coldplay
Keane
elton john
Robbie williams
The Who
all where AMAZING!
if it doesnt make a difference the leaders dont deserve their posts as they dont listen to the people.

While I would agree I'm not sure aging rock-stars count as 'the people'...

i'm talking about the 250,000 people in edinburgh, the 200,000+ in hyde park the 1.6 million on the streets of philly, the 50,000 that watched from the screens across the U.K. the 50,000 at the eden project, the people at the Berlin, toronto, paris, rome, tokyo and Jo'bourg. Also i dont think you can call keane, coldplay, Robbie Williams, joss stone, the killers and so on aging rock-stars. cool

That's still not a majority. I'm not saying the G8 shouldn't so as Make Poverty History want them to do, but I think it's dangerous to have rock stars dictate to politicians. On this occasion it's ok, since I think most people are all for dropping the debt and more aid to Africa.

Also, what was with Geldof saying 'We don't want your money! We want you!' Where does he think the money will come from? Taxes. Not that I have a problem with that, but at least be honest about it.

3 billion people watched it in total. ah huh well thats your opinion. thats cool. but i think as they are part of the global village they should be able to voice their opinions to our leaders.
what was with that was he wanted us at Live 8 and the protest at edinburgh the reason it was said was to show that it wasnt a Charity event it was a politcal call, a polical statement.
did you not see it flash up on the screen countless times?
'from charity to justice'
of course he knows that the aid will come out of taxes, but that isnt what he was talking about at the time it was about mobilising the people to the screens, edinburgh, hyde park, philly, rome etc.
i think everyone knows where the money comes from. 3nodding cool

I just wonder how many of those watching watched because it was a huge, televised international festival and how many watched because they were genuinely concerned about global poverty.

Also, poverty is a completely relative term.

that is something that will never be known but i am thinking well over half of that total has an interest in ending extreame poverty.
we are talking abouthe kids that die al the time because they dont have the acine we have to save them that sort of thing. it is discusing that the world leaders let it happen.  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

A Lost Iguana

Fourcolour

I just wonder how many of those watching watched because it was a huge, televised international festival and how many watched because they were genuinely concerned about global poverty.

I am concered about global poverty; I did not watch Live8 and I am sick of musicians putting all the blame at the feet of the Western leaders. The G8 has its part to play but it cannot change the way Africa, herself, operates.

Geldof keeps brushing the role of African leaders to one side, accusing it of being a distraction and not the real problem, when it is a real problem.

Only that is not to simple to sell to the masses.

first off it is not just Musicians. it is people from all walks of life.
and they dont put all the blame on bush, blair etc.
we all know that.
no he doesnt.
when he was talking to Jonathan Ross yesterday he said that the corrupt African leaders need to change and as i already said Africa is changing.  

[Fourcolour]

Tommy Vox

Africa is changing and it is changing for the better. they aremaking moves in the right direction but the G8 are still not.

Africa has actually gotten worse in recent years.

The G8 have been moving in the right direction for years. Perhaps not as much as they should, but give us some credit.  

[Shadow of an Illusion]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[Mr. Bono Vox]

[ Message temporarily off-line ]  

[Shadow of an Illusion]

Fourcolour

Tommy Vox

Africa is changing and it is changing for the better. they aremaking moves in the right direction but the G8 are still not.

Africa has actually gotten worse in recent years.

The G8 have been moving in the right direction for years. Perhaps not as much as they should, but give us some credit.

That is partly because of the AIDs epidemic, partly because of other things. They need the aid more now.


All farmers in the world are getting poorer. Most things are sold for a lot less than it took to grow them. The only thing that keeps the farmers up in this country is subsidies and even they are getting to little for it to be viable to farm.
If a country (or continent) only sells produce before it has been manufactured the country will become very poor. Since the (Ive forgotten the world but its like a tax that you have to pay for selling stuff abroad, unless you are in some sort of group [like the EU]) makes it so they cant sell things that have been manufactured but can only sell primary goods they will become poor.
An example is cocoa. The cocoa has to be sold as cocoa (with a low value) and con not be sold as cocoa butter. Selling it has cocoa butter would get more money and would create jobs but is not possible because of the trade laws.
The trade laws do not actually stop the secondary products from being sold directly but make it so that they have to be sold for a much higher price, making it so that no one will buy the secondary products.
These are the trade rules that have to be changed to help get Africa out of poverty.

We dont really need to worry about not having enough jobs in the future. There is an aging population here, meaning that less working age people will have to support more dependant people.



And you can call me Aisa.  

[A Lost Iguana]

Tommy Vox

it will benifit a large majority.
no one said the G8 had to do that. what we want them to do is to do THEIR part, cancel debt, break down the trade barriers, and give the poor nations much more aid.
this is the beginning of the long haul. this is the beginning of the road to a better africa.
there is more democratic countries on Afirca now than there was in 1985. Africa is changing and it is changing for the better. they aremaking moves in the right direction but the G8 are still not.

You are being unfair on the G8, it has made moves to help Africa, or are you forgetting the $40bn the G8 finance ministers agreed to wipe out of the money owed back in June?

Taking down the trade barriers would be a good thing for the world in general, but it would cause the loss of jobs in Western countries. Bush took the blame from American steel workers when the WTO took the EU's side with regard to the US's steel tariffs. The tariffs had to go, resulting in the loss of jobs in America, affecting American people. Of course, this is just economics, jobs move to where it is the least costly to produce your items. Then again, ask French farmers what they think of the CAP subsides? The CAP allows them to sell their produce at lower prices than they would do so otherwise. I want it to be removed, but this will put many farmers out of business, leaving them with no means to provide for their families. That is why Chirac is so relectant to see it removed. Remove the CAP and his country will suffer; he was elected to best serve the interests of the French public.

Bringing down trade barriers to allow other nations to compete is a good thing, but it is a double-edge sword, and far more complicated than Make Poverty History gives credit. For one, the UK cannot do anything about the IMF (which does do a lot to ruin countries), it is controlled by the US, whom is the only country with veto rights in the organisation. The trade barriers protect jobs in our countries, and if they are taken down then I bet it will not be the fat cats whom suffer but the normal working and middle classes.

The G8 leaders know this.

Now, onto aid. I agree that more aid should be sent is the form of development packages to help the poorest, but from where should be money come from? The NHS and transport network are in need of massive investment here, and Gordon Brown is having to borrow more and more to be able to finance the current government spending (note to Invi: this would also be the case with the Conservatives, certain services do need massive investment; the problems are not the sole fault of New Labour, but of successive Labour and Tory governments). I do not suggest that the UK's problems (or any of the G8; they all have pressing domestic concerns which require more public money) are more important that the plight of the poorest Africans, far from it. However, when it comes to election time, do you vote for your respective political choice based upon how they treat the rest of the world, or by how you are personally going to benefit from their policies?

Yes, we need to send more aid but the G8 governments are going to have to lower their domestic spending somewhere to balance the books. The public ought to give more money to charities rather than rely upon their governments to decide how much of the tax they pay should be given to other countries.

I am not saying that Africa is not improving, it is, however, it is can still be criticised for not doing enough. The African Union ought to exist to work to make thing better for the poorest, but is it? The AU has been very quiet about Mugabe in Zimbabwe. Why does it not criticise Mugabe for running the country to the ground with his flawed ideology and bad management. There is a food crisis in the country but other African leaders are saying very little about it, nor Mugabe's corruption. The AU needs to do more to help its own people; instead it is primarily serving the interests of the ruling elite in the respective countries.

I want Africa to improve, but is a damn sight more complicated than people are making it out to be; and the G8 is not the monster than some are making it out to be. People speak of changing the trade rules to make the markets fairer but are they prepared to lose their job as a result? It is easy to say that the IMF, World Bank and WTO are biased toward the rich countries but how, exactly, are the policies to be changed in order to best benefit all?