Terminology and Believability

[Sir_Catherine]

Alright, as a writer and role player I'm going to actualy speak up with my two pence.

I have been generating rp characters sence high school, the oldest solid character of which was never ment or used for rp but rather for a fanfiction which eventualy got out of hand and was dropped.

Anyway, several of these personas have become, while not forces in their own right, something like other facets of myself. The most promient one, right now, comes from a Hellsing anime fanfic. Set far beyond the original anime, the character has become a full part of me. There are times where my friend will ask me, "Who am I talking to?"

The key here is I never claim to be someone else legaly or as far as my soul is concerned. This may make this pointless to the discussion, but I am chosing to share my experience. The persona is quite fully developed and, at some point, her story will be done and will not be told further. This has happend with other characters. I could try to keep going, but it would fall flat, not sound 'right' or 'true'. Such as once their life has been shaped and formed inside my mind, that aspect of me is laid to rest.

A way of subconciously living out lives I could never have harmlessly in my mind?  

[MoonJeli]

Darin Rosewood

By the definitions I make use of, "Therians" are people who claim to have an animal soul or some such. Otherkin are people who claim to be either descended from a metaphysical creature (fae, dragons, etc.), or have been one in a past life. While I believe that Otherkin/Therians are theoretically possible, it's likely that the majority of them are fluffs, considering that they're all something "cool" like dragons, wolves, tigers, etc., but no mention of beetles, garden snakes, or more "ordinary" stuff.

These are not accurate definitions in terms of the people who call themselves Theri or Otherkin. Many Otherkin do not believe in any past lives, are not metaphysical creatures, etc. and many Theris are/do. The definitions you've given them are arbitrary and don't reflect the actual communities.

For example,

http://otherkinalliance.org

Q: What are Otherkin?
A: Otherkin are a group and/or subculture of people, primarily based online, who feel that some part of them in some way is not human. There are many explanations within the community as to how this is possible, some of them being spiritual, mental, social, or even genetic.

For the record, there are plenty of mundane beetles and the like out there. (Do you mean "garter snake" or are you being generic? I've never heard of a garter snake Otherkin myself but I consider them to be fascinating, awesome creatures. Heh. A garter snake is one of the main reasons I'm not Christian anymore.)

Also, the distinction of ordinary or impressive versus cool is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. This reminds me of spirit guide/animal arguments. "How come nobody has a _unimpressive animal_ as a spirit guide?" Well, I guess I don't know much about spirit animals and I don't want to make presumptions, but I've been taught a great deal by such an unimpressive animal.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

MoonJeli

Also, the distinction of ordinary or impressive versus cool is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. This reminds me of spirit guide/animal arguments. "How come nobody has a _unimpressive animal_ as a spirit guide?" Well, I guess I don't know much about spirit animals and I don't want to make presumptions, but I've been taught a great deal by such an unimpressive animal.

I hear a lot of people ask "Why are there no slug/anglerfish/stagbeetle" furries?" (as an example, since I don't have much connection with Otherkin or Therians) My theory is that humans find it difficult to identify with or respect such creatures. We can't identify with them because we consider their experience to be alien from ours. We can't respect them because we can't identify with them and because our conceptions of power have been shaped by the fact that humans have no natural defenses except our intelligence and our ability to use tools. Humans are also at the top of our food chain. Therefore the dominant land predators, most of them large mammals (wolf, bear, tiger), are the most appealing to us as alter-egos or spirit guides. Most people have some sense of an animal's "nobility"--another trend is domesticated animals, but even there we have a disproportionate number of horses, cats, and dogs, and few chickens and pigs.

A spirit guide is something one learns from, yes? Many people don't consider that there's anything to learn from beetles. And an alter-ego is usually crafted to make up for qualities one lacks, such as strength, speed, or agility.

There is also a curious balance between the other and the us. We seek the otherness in ourselves in order to seem unique--therefore few ape and monkey furries, too similar to humans. However, no one wants to be an outcast, and somehow we all gravitate to similar "other" in order to still be part of a group. (Also, I've never heard an Otherkin take kindly to the suggestion that they should forfeit their human rights if they are so adamant about their inhumanity.)

Personally, I don't understand how a bear or tiger's experience is any more similar than a slug's, unless it's the whole mammal thing. And if you can learn something from one animal, you can learn something from every animal.

And of course, this theory may not apply to Otherkin or Therians, since I believe furry experience and motivation tend to be different.

(I use 'we' only to avoid grammatical nightmares, not to imply that all of humanity's experience is the same.)  

[jaden kendam]

MoonJeli

Also, the distinction of ordinary or impressive versus cool is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. This reminds me of spirit guide/animal arguments. "How come nobody has a _unimpressive animal_ as a spirit guide?" Well, I guess I don't know much about spirit animals and I don't want to make presumptions, but I've been taught a great deal by such an unimpressive animal.

Actually, I have given many messages to people whose spirit guides appear out of the ordinary. Just because a guide might appear as animal does not make it so. For example, one person's spirit guide appears as a snail to them. There is a meaning behind that.

I recently gave a message, this pass summer, to someone whose spirit guide appeared as a tortoise. Same meaning as the snail.

Although, many fluffy bunnies will tell people that they have totem guides, and it is generally the wolf, fox, coyote, or raven. rolleyes  

[MoonJeli]

TheDisreputableDog

I hear a lot of people ask "Why are there no slug/anglerfish/stagbeetle" furries?" (as an example, since I don't have much connection with Otherkin or Therians) My theory is that humans find it difficult to identify with or respect such creatures.

Ironically my spirit guide/spirit animal/some guiding force in my life is a Slug (Banana Slug, specifically). I guess I'll admit it because of these two posts. XD

Are you in the furry community (very different from Otherkin, of course, in that it's not inherently spiritual, basically a fandom)? I collect art and draw some myself. My fiancee is a professional artist and animator and we're going to AC this year where she managed to snag a table (that's nearly impossible, woo!).

Anyway, I have some weird furry characters, including a naked mole rat, which I don't think most people identify with. But it's fun, because it's so unsual. I really like Ursula Vernon's art because she does unusual furries (snails, naked mole rats -- she even did a Slug Totem painting, which just tickled me!).

TheDisreputableDog

We can't identify with them because we consider their experience to be alien from ours. We can't respect them because we can't identify with them and because our conceptions of power have been shaped by the fact that humans have no natural defenses except our intelligence and our ability to use tools. Humans are also at the top of our food chain. Therefore the dominant land predators, most of them large mammals (wolf, bear, tiger), are the most appealing to us as alter-egos or spirit guides. Most people have some sense of an animal's "nobility"--another trend is domesticated animals, but even there we have a disproportionate number of horses, cats, and dogs, and few chickens and pigs.

This is very true. I disagree that we can't respect them but I suppose it's harder.

TheDisreputableDog

A spirit guide is something one learns from, yes? Many people don't consider that there's anything to learn from beetles.

A great loss to them. Beetles have a lot to teach, I'm sure. I know Slug does.

TheDisreputableDog

And an alter-ego is usually crafted to make up for qualities one lacks, such as strength, speed, or agility.

Well... in some cases I'd agree with that. But sometimes it's chosen to reflect one's personality, and so on. Shy people might choose a deer or a rabbit persona, someone brash might choose a raven, and so on. I tend to just pick ones that would be fun to draw or write about.

TheDisreputableDog

There is also a curious balance between the other and the us. We seek the otherness in ourselves in order to seem unique--therefore few ape and monkey furries, too similar to humans.

Well, I don't know about that. I know I avoid ape personas because of the, um, fetishists related to gorillas, and so on. Plus I can't draw them, and I know that's a HUGE aspect of furry fandom -- lots of furry artists are uncomfortable with human-like faces. I know quite a few monkey furries, but not so many apes. Tons of primitive primates (lemurs and so on).

TheDisreputableDog

However, no one wants to be an outcast, and somehow we all gravitate to similar "other" in order to still be part of a group. (Also, I've never heard an Otherkin take kindly to the suggestion that they should forfeit their human rights if they are so adamant about their inhumanity.)

I know a lot of Otherkin who have nothing against their humanity. The newbies tend to be anti-human but it tends to wear off, and the Otherkin who don't give it up are considered fluffy, sort of like the Pagans who hate Christians thing. There are a lot of Otherkin human-love groups, and many Otherkin talk about how being Otherkin doesn't make you Not Human.

But there's also the aspect of Otherkin that they think animals should GAIN rights, rather than them having to give UP human rights.

And... I do know Otherkin who wouldn't mind getting treated like a dog. For the rest of their life. And some furries too. xd

deadmanjake

MoonJeli

Also, the distinction of ordinary or impressive versus cool is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. This reminds me of spirit guide/animal arguments. "How come nobody has a _unimpressive animal_ as a spirit guide?" Well, I guess I don't know much about spirit animals and I don't want to make presumptions, but I've been taught a great deal by such an unimpressive animal.

Actually, I have given many messages to people whose spirit guides appear out of the ordinary. Just because a guide might appear as animal does not make it so. For example, one person's spirit guide appears as a snail to them. There is a meaning behind that.

Mine is Slug. Slug has been with me since before kindergarten. I mentioned it first coming on this board, but I usually don't talk about it -- I've had people tell me Spirit Animals can't be invetebrates/bugs/fish/this or that. I don't know if I'm breaking any rules; I just know that Slug has been with me, spoken to me, and taught me a lot.

deadmanjake

I recently gave a message, this pass summer, to someone whose spirit guide appeared as a tortoise. Same meaning as the snail.

This is sort of off topic, but do animals, in your beliefs, have set meanings that they always bring with them? Such as (making something up here) cougar always comes with a meaning of leadership, etc.? I don't know anything about spirit animals or guides of any type and sometimes get the impression that many people consider totems and spirit animals to be fluffy. I can't deny what I've experienced, but I have shied away from any belief system associated with it.

deadmanjake

Although, many fluffy bunnies will tell people that they have totem guides, and it is generally the wolf, fox, coyote, or raven. rolleyes

How do they come to this conclusion? Do you guess any of them actually ARE right?  

[jaden kendam]

MoonJeli

deadmanjake

MoonJeli

Also, the distinction of ordinary or impressive versus cool is in the eye of the beholder, I suppose. This reminds me of spirit guide/animal arguments. "How come nobody has a _unimpressive animal_ as a spirit guide?" Well, I guess I don't know much about spirit animals and I don't want to make presumptions, but I've been taught a great deal by such an unimpressive animal.

Actually, I have given many messages to people whose spirit guides appear out of the ordinary. Just because a guide might appear as animal does not make it so. For example, one person's spirit guide appears as a snail to them. There is a meaning behind that.

Mine is Slug. Slug has been with me since before kindergarten. I mentioned it first coming on this board, but I usually don't talk about it -- I've had people tell me Spirit Animals can't be invetebrates/bugs/fish/this or that. I don't know if I'm breaking any rules; I just know that Slug has been with me, spoken to me, and taught me a lot.

Now, who told you that? Plus, there is a difference between totem animals and spirit guide animals and spirit guides who sometimes appear as animals. Spirit guide animals are just that. Animals on the spirit plane who are around you. Totem Animals are not part of Spiritualism and I am not sure how to explain them.

MoonJeli

deadmanjake

I recently gave a message, this pass summer, to someone whose spirit guide appeared as a tortoise. Same meaning as the snail.

This is sort of off topic, but do animals, in your beliefs, have set meanings that they always bring with them? Such as (making something up here) cougar always comes with a meaning of leadership, etc.? I don't know anything about spirit animals or guides of any type and sometimes get the impression that many people consider totems and spirit animals to be fluffy. I can't deny what I've experienced, but I have shied away from any belief system associated with it.

No, they do not always have meanings. That was borrowed from the Native Americans (the ones who believe in that) by some new agers/fluffy bunnies Spiritualists. Sometimes, your guides will come as animals to give you a message that can be associated with the what the animal is like. The message behind the snail and the tortoise is slow and steady/patience.

MoonJeli

deadmanjake

Although, many fluffy bunnies will tell people that they have totem guides, and it is generally the wolf, fox, coyote, or raven. rolleyes

How do they come to this conclusion? Do you guess any of them actually ARE right?

I doubt just about everyone who says that they have coyote as a totem guide. Coyote is, by dumbing down the hell out his meaning, the trickster. It is the same as with most people who say they are the chosen of Loki.

There was a girl on here who said Raven was her totem guide who taught her to be a warrior. Now, my limited understanding of totem animals has never placed Raven as a warrior. Mystic, thief, collector, teacher. Those I have heard of Raven being.  

[Sir_Catherine]

What might the eagle represent/show/indicate?

A couple people I know who claim to see auras and indicators of totem animals. I can't really explain what they think/believe because, first of all they are very different from each other in their experiences and abilities and, second because I am only friends with one. Might have to do with native american beliefs as well, again I can't sort it all out.

Either way, they've agreed that I am connected to the eagle and I'm curious what that means to all of you. I didn't ask or demand of them to 'give me an animal', they just made the statement and agreed with each other on the animal.

No, I don't feel a presence or sense an animal guide myself, but then I've never been very spiritual or mystical.  

[maenad nuri]

Sir_Catherine

No, I don't feel a presence or sense an animal guide myself, but then I've never been very spiritual or mystical.

Heh, I'm decently mystical/spiritual/what have you, and I've never figured it out. If I've got a totem or spirit guide, then I can't find it. Maybe she's lost in my room. It is a mess.


I did once have a mouse shaman character in Shadowrun. Does that count?  

[midara the happy banshee]

I've got something of a 'totem animal', if you would call it that. It's just an animal that I have a strong affinity for and feel a spiritual connection to. I hate it admit it sometimes, though, because it's certainly not a part of Hellenism (as far as I know). Also, because it's a lion, there's quite a bit of that fluffy stigma. But I didn't really choose lions, and I'm not trying to sound cool or powerful by mentioning it. I chalk it up to having my Sun, Mercury, Venus and Mars all in Leo. wink  

[Pelta]

deadmanjake

I recently gave a message, this pass summer, to someone whose spirit guide appeared as a tortoise. Same meaning as the snail.

I would hesitate to say that any spirit can have 'meaning.' That's rather akin to saying certain gods and goddesses have 'meaning.'

The form a particular spirit chooses may relay a message, but spirit guides can be far more complex than that.

As to your point of the differences between spirit guides and animal totems, you seem to say (correct me if I'm wrong) that the spirit guides can take whatever form they choose to relay a message. However, you said yourself there is a profound difference between totems and spirit guides. Whereas a guide is mutable and may change its form, a totem does not. Totems in my tradition embody an archetype/distillation of the species/form they represent, and therefore to dumb that down into 'meaning' would not be doing justice to the powers involved.  

[jaden kendam]

missmagpie

deadmanjake

I recently gave a message, this pass summer, to someone whose spirit guide appeared as a tortoise. Same meaning as the snail.

I would hesitate to say that any spirit can have 'meaning.' That's rather akin to saying certain gods and goddesses have 'meaning.'

That is not what I said. I said the persons spirit guide appeared as a tortoise, and the message was there. I did not say that what they appear as has any meaning all the time. Sometimes they actually talk to me.

And while I am at it, I never brought in deities did I? I could care less if deities exist, except when I offend those who believe in them by saying something about the deity that may be incorrect.

missmagpie

The form a particular spirit chooses may relay a message, but spirit guides can be far more complex than that.

Answered above.

Did you know that there is more than one type of spirit guide? Gatekeeper (1), Joy, Protector/Guardian, Teacher, and others. As well as those passed loved ones that pop in and out.

missmagpie

As to your point of the differences between spirit guides and animal totems, you seem to say (correct me if I'm wrong) that the spirit guides can take whatever form they choose to relay a message. However, you said yourself there is a profound difference between totems and spirit guides. Whereas a guide is mutable and may change its form, a totem does not. Totems in my tradition embody an archetype/distillation of the species/form they represent, and therefore to dumb that down into 'meaning' would not be doing justice to the powers involved.

That is why I did not even bother to try and explain Totem guides, as in, they are generally going to appear as whatever type of animal that it is. Now, some may appear as humans who have the animal on them in some shape or form, but is this really the Totem Guide or just a Spirit Guide? I could not give anyone a one hundred percent answer on this.

Spirits can do anything they want. Some appear on/in vehicles or they can appear as when they were younger in life. Recently, I gave a message about a puppy to someone. As it turned out, it was two dogs who acted the same when they were puppies. Not everything that spirit does is easy to understand.  

[MoonJeli]

I'm not sure whether it would be appropriate to start a new thread on this or not, so if it is okay and there's enough interest, I'll let someone else do that.

So, what are:

* Totem Animals
* Spirit Guides
* Spirit Animals
* Animal Guides

etc.? What are the differences, if any can be defined with certainty? Which beliefs on the subject are fluffy or culture rape?

For example, I don't doubt SOME people have lions, wolves and other "noble" creatures as their animal guides without it being fluffy. (It'd be weird if everyone had Slug, Scrub Jay and Mouse [all ones my friends claim] just like it'd be weird if everyone had Raven and Cougar.) Can people have more than one?

MoonJeli

I've had people tell me Spirit Animals can't be invetebrates/bugs/fish/this or that. I don't know if I'm breaking any rules; I just know that Slug has been with me, spoken to me, and taught me a lot.

deadmanjake

Now, who told you that?

A couple eclectic type pagans have said that. I didn't believe them (there's no denying Slug) but it made me wary of talking about it.

deadmanjake

I doubt just about everyone who says that they have coyote as a totem guide. Coyote is, by dumbing down the hell out his meaning, the trickster. It is the same as with most people who say they are the chosen of Loki.

I'd say in many cases you're right, but I wouldn't doubt some people are beloved of such gods and spirits. I've met a few such people myself. Heh. Probably most who claim that are just trying to be cool and bad@ss. Also, the description I've seen of coyote as "trickster" is primarily from some Native American beliefs, right? Could an animal spirit guide be any other way? The coyotes I've met were shy.

deadmanjake

There was a girl on here who said Raven was her totem guide who taught her to be a warrior. Now, my limited understanding of totem animals has never placed Raven as a warrior. Mystic, thief, collector, teacher. Those I have heard of Raven being.

Having known ravens personally, they're quite the trickster themselves. I have a connection to corvids (not on a totem/spirit animal sort of level, just in working with birds in raptor rehab) and I've never met a warrior raven, but I sure as heck have met "Raven Upsetting Things".

missmagpie

Totems in my tradition embody an archetype/distillation of the species/form they represent, and therefore to dumb that down into 'meaning' would not be doing justice to the powers involved.

This resonates more with my personal experience of Slug. Could you tell me more about your tradition on this?  

[Pelta]

deadmanjake

missmagpie

deadmanjake

I recently gave a message, this pass summer, to someone whose spirit guide appeared as a tortoise. Same meaning as the snail.

I would hesitate to say that any spirit can have 'meaning.' That's rather akin to saying certain gods and goddesses have 'meaning.'

That is not what I said. I said the persons spirit guide appeared as a tortoise, and the message was there. I did not say that what they appear as has any meaning all the time. Sometimes they actually talk to me.

And while I am at it, I never brought in deities did I? I could care less if deities exist, except when I offend those who believe in them by saying something about the deity that may be incorrect.

Perhaps I misunderstood. You said you were taking meaning from the spirit's chosen form, ie. tortoise and snail meaning the same thing. I am approaching from another perspective in which to relegate specific meanings to animals is contrary to the complexities of their nature. This is why I brought up deities; it being similar to people stripping Diana down to "a hunt goddess" without embracing the fact that there's so much more to her than that.

Now, I suppose the question is, how do you know whether you're talking to a spirit guide or totem? Because a spirit guide may choose the form of Tortoise to give you the message of slow and steady, whereas a totem may be insulted by such a shallow appraisal of a complex being. See what I mean?

I'm not trying to be insulting to your practises. I don't know how you interact with spirits. My guide comes in the shape of a Magpie. However, this means very little in relation to conventional 'meanings' that the bird has adopted. I think it is most likely that I just misunderstood your appraisal in the first place, taking it to mean that you were talking to totems as opposed to guides. This is why a definitions thread like this is real handy. wink  

[jaden kendam]

missmagpie

deadmanjake

missmagpie

deadmanjake

I recently gave a message, this pass summer, to someone whose spirit guide appeared as a tortoise. Same meaning as the snail.

I would hesitate to say that any spirit can have 'meaning.' That's rather akin to saying certain gods and goddesses have 'meaning.'

That is not what I said. I said the persons spirit guide appeared as a tortoise, and the message was there. I did not say that what they appear as has any meaning all the time. Sometimes they actually talk to me.

And while I am at it, I never brought in deities did I? I could care less if deities exist, except when I offend those who believe in them by saying something about the deity that may be incorrect.

Perhaps I misunderstood. You said you were taking meaning from the spirit's chosen form, ie. tortoise and snail meaning the same thing. I am approaching from another perspective in which to relegate specific meanings to animals is contrary to the complexities of their nature. This is why I brought up deities; it being similar to people stripping Diana down to "a hunt goddess" without embracing the fact that there's so much more to her than that.

Now, I suppose the question is, how do you know whether you're talking to a spirit guide or totem? Because a spirit guide may choose the form of Tortoise to give you the message of slow and steady, whereas a totem may be insulted by such a shallow appraisal of a complex being. See what I mean?

I'm not trying to be insulting to your practises. I don't know how you interact with spirits. My guide comes in the shape of a Magpie. However, this means very little in relation to conventional 'meanings' that the bird has adopted. I think it is most likely that I just misunderstood your appraisal in the first place, taking it to mean that you were talking to totems as opposed to guides. This is why a definitions thread like this is real handy. wink

Easy answer to how to tell the difference? You either ask or they tell you. Of course, if you are dealing with someone who does not believe in either spirit guides or totem guides, then the "entity" in question may change how it delivers said message.  

[TheDisreputableDog]

MoonJeli

Ironically my spirit guide/spirit animal/some guiding force in my life is a Slug (Banana Slug, specifically). I guess I'll admit it because of these two posts. XD

I love banana slugs. smile //Hums.// Banana slug, banana slug...sticky as peanut butter, shade of yellow--looks like a banana, but oh, so mellow...

MoonJeli

Are you in the furry community (very different from Otherkin, of course, in that it's not inherently spiritual, basically a fandom)? I collect art and draw some myself. My fiancee is a professional artist and animator and we're going to AC this year where she managed to snag a table (that's nearly impossible, woo!).

Anyway, I have some weird furry characters, including a naked mole rat, which I don't think most people identify with. But it's fun, because it's so unsual. I really like Ursula Vernon's art because she does unusual furries (snails, naked mole rats -- she even did a Slug Totem painting, which just tickled me!).

Yes, I picked up with the furry thing when I first joined Gaia, two summers ago. I've kind of lapsed from it lately...No time to draw, mostly. My main character is a border collie, but I morph her up a bit sometimes--I'm really entertained by my anglerfish rendering of her, which is why I mentioned it.

MoonJeli

This is very true. I disagree that we can't respect them but I suppose it's harder.

Yes, well, I was being general. 3nodding //Slaps self on the wrist.// In terms of the average big-land-predator furry that I've met, they just don't get why anyone would want to represent themselves as a "lesser" animal.

MoonJeli

A great loss to them. Beetles have a lot to teach, I'm sure. I know Slug does.

Definitely.

MoonJeli

Well... in some cases I'd agree with that. But sometimes it's chosen to reflect one's personality, and so on. Shy people might choose a deer or a rabbit persona, someone brash might choose a raven, and so on. I tend to just pick ones that would be fun to draw or write about.

That's true. I know a golden retriever would be more suited to my personality, but I chose a border collie because (besides that they're pretty and I love James Herriot's stories about them from when I was a kid) they are agile, hard workers, protective, have good memories, and a good dog will bond really well with the right handler. By contrast, I'm a clumsy, forgetful slacker. Having the border collie persona was supposed to remind me to encourage those traits I found desirable. (That, and I don't draw goldens well.)

MoonJeli

Well, I don't know about that. I know I avoid ape personas because of the, um, fetishists related to gorillas, and so on. Plus I can't draw them, and I know that's a HUGE aspect of furry fandom -- lots of furry artists are uncomfortable with human-like faces. I know quite a few monkey furries, but not so many apes. Tons of primitive primates (lemurs and so on).

Gorilla fetishists? Hm. I don't know many monkeys or apes, but plenty of lemurs certaintly.

MoonJeli

I know a lot of Otherkin who have nothing against their humanity. The newbies tend to be anti-human but it tends to wear off, and the Otherkin who don't give it up are considered fluffy, sort of like the Pagans who hate Christians thing. There are a lot of Otherkin human-love groups, and many Otherkin talk about how being Otherkin doesn't make you Not Human.

But there's also the aspect of Otherkin that they think animals should GAIN rights, rather than them having to give UP human rights.

Interesting. I'm only really close with a werewolf and a some-combination-I-can-never-remember-involving-deer-and-bear therian.

MoonJeli

And... I do know Otherkin who wouldn't mind getting treated like a dog. For the rest of their life. And some furries too. xd

//Hides collar and tags...// ninja

xd