Drugs and the Divine

[Starlock]

Those who want to use these methods in their practice are sure free to do so, but I don't see myself using them at any time in the near future. I wouldn't agree with those who use such methods as their only means of alternative states of consciousness; drugs are no substitute for discipline and training.

One thing that drugs evidently do quite well is to tear down that barrier that we usually create between what we consider 'real' and 'not real.' The general Western outlook is that if I can't sense it with the five senses, it isn't real. Neopaganism and some other movements see truths of the inner world as valid as those of the outer world. Growing up in a culture that doesn't value that it can be hard for some to break down that barrier of disbelief. Using a hallucinogen could help some to cross that threshold for the first time. It should be used responsibly for that purpose, of course; the person still has to be equiped with the knowledge to handle what they experience.

The question of differentiating between the drug and the divine strikes me as an odd question. I'm not sure why...  

[Pelta]

blindfaith^_^

I don't generally combine the two. While I do drink, I personally find my ability to draw in energy flawed while under the influnce significantly blocked. I'm not sure if this is a mental problem, where I see alcohal as inhibitor so that's what it does, or if this is a legitimate block on my ability to connect with energy. Either way, doing any ritual, spell, or reiki work while drunk is somewhat out the window for me at the moment.

Oy I wouldn't do reiki drunk. ******** with yourself is one thing. ******** with someone else is something I'd be a lot more careful about.  

[TeaDidikai]

missmagpie

Oy I wouldn't do reiki drunk. ******** with yourself is one thing. ******** with someone else is something I'd be a lot more careful about.

Ummmm... giving Reiki while drunk isn't a bad thing. The Reiki does the work, not the person applying it- or so it is stated in all three of the trads I am part of.  

[Pelta]

TeaDidikai

missmagpie

Oy I wouldn't do reiki drunk. ******** with yourself is one thing. ******** with someone else is something I'd be a lot more careful about.

Ummmm... giving Reiki while drunk isn't a bad thing. The Reiki does the work, not the person applying it- or so it is stated in all three of the trads I am part of.

Ah. I didn't know.

I was thinking along the lines of doing magical healing when drunk. It wouldn't sit too well with me.

Reiki is obviously a different story.  

[TeaDidikai]

missmagpie

Reiki is obviously a different story.

That it is.

However, part of the assertion for many ecstatic traditions is that the influence of the chemicals allows one to (as Morph would say) "Connect".  

[IH_Zero]

I use alcohol as offerings sometimes, but I hardly ever use it when I'm doing any type of magic work, except for in certain form of divination, and then only a little.

More than a little alcohol makes me practically about to pass out (I'm a sleepy drunk), and that's not good when I'm doing something that requires my concentration (herbal work and the like). Don't want to be passing out if I'm working with some of the baneful herbs. If I'm scrying, I might drink a glass of wine or some such, to help me relax and open my mind to what I'm trying to discover.  

[Pelta]

AngryRobotsInc.

I use alcohol as offerings sometimes, but I hardly ever use it when I'm doing any type of magic work, except for in certain form of divination, and then only a little.

My god likes whiskey.

Actually, thanks for reminding me. Gotta get him some.

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If I'm scrying, I might drink a glass of wine or some such, to help me relax and open my mind to what I'm trying to discover.

I think a lot of people do certain drugs to relax. It's what I've heard as one of the most beneficial uses of cannabis too.

There may, however, be danger in relaxing just a little too far. wink  

[blindfaith^_^]

missmagpie

Oy I wouldn't do reiki drunk. ******** with yourself is one thing. ******** with someone else is something I'd be a lot more careful about.

You can do self reiki too, though as I stated, I wouldn't and don't do reiki drunk. Just can't seem to connect to any sort of energy in that particular state.  

[TeaDidikai]

blindfaith^_^

missmagpie

Oy I wouldn't do reiki drunk. ******** with yourself is one thing. ******** with someone else is something I'd be a lot more careful about.

You can do self reiki too, though as I stated, I wouldn't and don't do reiki drunk. Just can't seem to connect to any sort of energy in that particular state.

So it is a function of ability (or inability as the case may be), not an moral judgement?  

[blindfaith^_^]

TeaDidikai

So it is a function of ability (or inability as the case may be), not an moral judgement?

To perform reiki on myself, it is completely a function on my inability. On others, morals do come into play a bit more.

If I wasn't drunk, for example, but still influnced, I could perform reiki, to a fairly minimal degree. I wouldn't though because I would be lacking in the quality of the energy I was pulling in. If I could gaurentee the nature and quality of energy, it would be a different story, but since I can't, and the energy doesn't seem to differ in a positive way, I wouldn't do any work under the influnce. I'd have to agree with missmagpie here, attempting something one is uncertain of on themselves is different then attempting something one is uncertain of on others.

If, in time with lots of practice, I found that I could constantly use and control the quality of energy I was oulling through me, I wouldn't see anything wrong with doing reiki on myself or others under the influnce. Though I still probably would avoid doing so because there is no reason why I should be performing such work in that state and it is fairly unproffessional. There are traditions with legitimate uses for alcohal, the tradition or reiki I belong to is not one. Why get drunk or perform something drunk that one could do sober if there is no apparent reason?  

[TeaDidikai]

blindfaith^_^

If I wasn't drunk, for example, but still influnced, I could perform reiki, to a fairly minimal degree. I wouldn't though because I would be lacking in the quality of the energy I was pulling in. If I could gaurentee the nature and quality of energy, it would be a different story, but since I can't, and the energy doesn't seem to differ in a positive way, I wouldn't do any work under the influnce.

Ummmm... in every single tradition I hold an initation in, the only thing they agree on is that Reiki is Reiki no matter what.

There is no "quality" issue involved.

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Though I still probably would avoid doing so because there is no reason why I should be performing such work in that state and it is fairly unproffessional.

Reiki does not always need to be done in professional situations.

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There are traditions with legitimate uses for alcohal, the tradition or reiki I belong to is not one.

Which tradition would that be?

Lineage please.

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Why get drunk or perform something drunk that one could do sober if there is no apparent reason?

I made no mention of becoming intoxicated to perform Reiki. That would be silly. However- I see no reason there should be a prohibition against doing an art that heals just because you have overindulged.  

[blindfaith^_^]

TeaDidikai

blindfaith^_^

If I wasn't drunk, for example, but still influnced, I could perform reiki, to a fairly minimal degree. I wouldn't though because I would be lacking in the quality of the energy I was pulling in. If I could gaurentee the nature and quality of energy, it would be a different story, but since I can't, and the energy doesn't seem to differ in a positive way, I wouldn't do any work under the influnce.

Ummmm... in every single tradition I hold an initation in, the only thing they agree on is that Reiki is Reiki no matter what.

There is no "quality" issue involved.

You are correct. Reiki is Reiki no matter what. I mis-spoke. My perception of the quality of the energy is that said energy is lesser. I've only attempted self reiki while under the influnce and I didn't fell it as I usually do, but this could have to do with many things, none of them being the actual energy. It could have to do with my drinking and my own ability to feel, it could be that while sober I enhance mentally what I feel because I'm easily led from reality to mental fantasy, or it could be my own perception of my body slowing so I believe my energy is lacking as well too.

Since I percieve it as such, regardless of the reality, I would be uncomfortable to perform reiki on anyone in such a state. I'm friends with a few practitioners, who live fairly closely so there is little need for me to do anything that would make me feel slightly uncomfortable.

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Though I still probably would avoid doing so because there is no reason why I should be performing such work in that state and it is fairly unproffessional.

Reiki does not always need to be done in professional situations.

True, and I don't always do it in professional situations, and certainly I don't have the liscences needed to perform reiki in a pofession manner. However, when I do reiki for a friend or a friend of a friend, I would prefer to keep a more professional level in most of reiki interactions. It makes me more comfortable.

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There are traditions with legitimate uses for alcohal, the tradition or reiki I belong to is not one.

Which tradition would that be?

Lineage please.

Sorry, I seem to have mangled several sentences and ideas together. I was on my way to work at the time. sweatdrop

what blindfaith^_^ should have said

There are more than likely many healing traditions where alcohal use is a legitimate aspect of practice. The traditions of reiki I practice are not any of those traditions. As I do not belong to any other formal schooling in healing, I do not belong to any such tradition.

As far as my linegage I've recently gotten my reiki three in the Usui Shiki Ryoho tradition and the Shamballa tradition.

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Why get drunk or perform something drunk that one could do sober if there is no apparent reason?

I made no mention of becoming intoxicated to perform Reiki. That would be silly. However- I see no reason there should be a prohibition against doing an art that heals just because you have overindulged.

There isn't an official one to my knowledge. Its my own comfort level really.  

[TeaDidikai]

blindfaith^_^

Since I percieve it as such, regardless of the reality, I would be uncomfortable to perform reiki on anyone in such a state. I'm friends with a few practitioners, who live fairly closely so there is little need for me to do anything that would make me feel slightly uncomfortable.

On the most basic level of what makes Reiki an interesting healing art- I am inclined to say that this suggestion violates what makes it special.

One of the joys of Reiki is that it is a "fire and forget weapon".

While your discomfort is your own concern- my position is that I hope such does not influence others.

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True, and I don't always do it in professional situations, and certainly I don't have the liscences needed to perform reiki in a pofession manner. However, when I do reiki for a friend or a friend of a friend, I would prefer to keep a more professional level in most of reiki interactions. It makes me more comfortable.

I understand professionalism.

However- one of the "side benefits" to the nature of Reiki is that it is so casual.

Reiki a bowl of soup or do it while you are folding the laundry.

what blindfaith^_^ should have said

There are more than likely many healing traditions where alcohal use is a legitimate aspect of practice. The traditions of reiki I practice are not any of those traditions. As I do not belong to any other formal schooling in healing, I do not belong to any such tradition.

~blinkblink~ I'd flatout say that Reiki (being Reiki no matter what Lineaged tradition it is) is one of those schools.

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As far as my linegage I've recently gotten my reiki three in the Usui Shiki Ryoho tradition and the Shamballa tradition.

Okay. That's your Tradition. I'm asking for your lineage.  

[blindfaith^_^]

TeaDidikai

On the most basic level of what makes Reiki an interesting healing art- I am inclined to say that this suggestion violates what makes it special.

One of the joys of Reiki is that it is a "fire and forget weapon".

While your discomfort is your own concern- my position is that I hope such does not influence others.

Fair enough, I would hope my own perceptions would not influnce others in this aspect either.

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I understand professionalism.

However- one of the "side benefits" to the nature of Reiki is that it is so casual.

Reiki a bowl of soup or do it while you are folding the laundry.

Mmmm, reiki soup.

With close friends and when by myself, this kind of casual reiki work is fine. Even with strangers and aquintences in certain circumstances, putting reiki into a meal or object is fine. Where my own comfort level is crossed is that I would not want to give reiki to another person while I or they or both of us were ider the influnce.

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Okay. That's your Tradition. I'm asking for your lineage.

What specifically are you looking for from lineage? I could pm you the name of my teacher, but I don't know what that would or would not prove in the way of proving my lineage.  

[TeaDidikai]

blindfaith^_^

Where my own comfort level is crossed is that I would not want to give reiki to another person while I or they or both of us were ider the influnce.

With strangers I can understand that.

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What specifically are you looking for from lineage? I could pm you the name of my teacher, but I don't know what that would or would not prove in the way of proving my lineage.

Your Master, your master's Master, your Master's Master's Master- all the way back.

I am currently trying to figure out if what you do is Reiki, because your discription of it is different from every legit tradition I know of.