Preta-natural Awareness & the Pragmatic Application of Faith

[Molly Mollusca]

TeaDidikai

Again. No. "A bright child will find a way to overcome poor instruction". My Nana said that a lot when I was growing up.

eek THAT is a good saying... surprised Can I adopt it?  

[TeaDidikai]

Elfin Brill

TeaDidikai

Again. No. "A bright child will find a way to overcome poor instruction". My Nana said that a lot when I was growing up.

eek THAT is a good saying... surprised Can I adopt it?

You'd have to ask my Nana. Something tells me she didn't come up with it herself.  

[Molly Mollusca]

I don't know your Nana... sad I barely even know you! surprised  

[TeaDidikai]

Elfin Brill

I don't know your Nana... sad I barely even know you! surprised

Whose fault is that? confused  

[Molly Mollusca]

Major off topic: My own fault. 3nodding

Attempt to go ontopic:

Fiddlers Green

Just as not all people have talent for walking, talking, or archery.
And yeah, even to the point that some people completely are unable to perform the aforementioned.

Is walking a talent? eek Why is that?  

[honorofdarkn3ss]

Elfin Brill

Is walking a talent? eek Why is that?

Of course walking is a talent, some people trip a lot more then others
and attribute it to bad luck, but its really just them sucking at life.

As for this topic...

Quote:

Sometimes people aren't aware of their own talents and they need to be pointed out. Since a lot of magic/psychical working is mental, the person's mindset has much to do with it.

bullshit

sorry to be so blunt, but thats not true for this.
Psychic awareness and the ability to do anything with it is more heavily based on talent then anything else in this world. I'm a passive empath but I can no more reactively sense emotions then the aforementioned coke bottle. Being as passive and reactive empathy are two different things proves my point.

Also...

TeaDidikai

Show me where the potential for me to grow a second nose on my left a** cheek of my own accord is.

I think I'm in love with how you put that

Quote:

Putting it simply, there is a valid scientific explanation for these so-called sixth-senses. I've yet to see or hear of anything that fails to be explainable with an understanding of human physiology and psychology.

If there was a valid scientific explanation why the f*ck would we be debating this? We CAN'T prove magick scientifically in any way besides brainwaves, everything else is attributed to coincidence. And what do brainwaves prove? That a random person can make his brain think its asleep? If it was proven this would be a science discussion, not a theological/psuedo-scientific one, and I would NOT be ranting my a** off.

the end (or is it????)  

[Pelta]

honorofdarkn3ss

Psychic awareness and the ability to do anything with it is more heavily based on talent then anything else in this world.

Prove it. It requires more natural talent than prodigal music? So Mozart composing at the age of 4 was purely due to luck? I'm afraid if you make sweeping generalised statements like that you're going to have to support them.

Your idividualised "proof" of your statement doesn't count because of your assumption that something that applies to you applies to everyone. Just because you can't learn to be a reactive empath doesn't mean everyone else can't.

Quote:

We CAN'T prove magick scientifically in any way besides brainwaves, everything else is attributed to coincidence.

First of all, we're not debating "magick" at all. That's something entirely different - as far as I know most of us aren't Thelemites.

As for psychic powers, have you considered that empathy can be explained by using the other five senses? Body language and facial expressions can show how others are feeling. Recognising that the other person is a reactive being with similar emotions to yourself can lead one to empathise with their situation (Black and Phillips 1982).

Source (Scroll down to "Empathy training". There are also some interesting correlations between childrearing practises and empathy in children.)  

[honorofdarkn3ss]

missmagpie

t requires more natural talent than prodigal music? So Mozart composing at the age of 4 was purely due to luck?

Mozart was autistic. Thats completely different. But yes, it is pretty much do to luck whether or not you will have talent at something. If we could choose what we'd be good at half the world would not be sitting in cubicles.

missmagpie

First of all, we're not debating "magick" at all.

My statement still stands. Psychic awarenes and magick both deal with the metaphysical so I generalized it all under a single word. boohoo

missmagpie

As for psychic powers, have you considered that empathy can be explained by using the other five senses? Body language and facial expressions can show how others are feeling. Recognising that the other person is a reactive being with similar emotions to yourself can lead one to empathise with their situation (Black and Phillips 1982).

Yes, I have considered this. I live with professional liars. My father is a detective and my mother is a nurse, and unless I'm really THAT good at reading body language, at the oh so worldy age of 16, that I can read THEIR emotions at random, then I'm pretty sure that what I'm doing is empathy, and not the aforementioned body language reading.

_____

The article is interesting, but my mommy smacked my a** when I did something bad and told my daddy, who told me I was stupid. So there goes that theory.


whee stressed xd  

[Pelta]

honorofdarkn3ss

missmagpie

t requires more natural talent than prodigal music? So Mozart composing at the age of 4 was purely due to luck?

Mozart was autistic. Thats completely different.

Um... What I asked was for you to prove your statement that, "Psychic awareness and the ability to do anything with it is more heavily based on talent then anything else in this world." You have not done so.

Quote:

missmagpie

First of all, we're not debating "magick" at all.

My statement still stands. Psychic awarenes and magick both deal with the metaphysical so I generalized it all under a single word. boohoo

You missed the point. I was pointing out that "magick" with a k is only really applicable to Crowley's teachings, and few in this thread so far follow them.

Quote:

Yes, I have considered this. I live with professional liars. My father is a detective and my mother is a nurse, and unless I'm really THAT good at reading body language, at the oh so worldy age of 16, that I can read THEIR emotions at random, then I'm pretty sure that what I'm doing is empathy, and not the aforementioned body language reading.

Hun, BABIES can read facial expressions.

"In one study, infants who had just started to crawl were placed on an apparatus called a visual cliff. The depth of the apparent cliff was not as deep as that used in studies of depth perception; instead, it was the size of an ordinary step, which made it less clear wheither the drop posed a danger or not. When infants approached the edge of the cliff, they would look to their mother. In one condition, mothers had been instructed to make an expression of intense fear. In another, they were instructed to smile broadly. The mothers' facial expression resolved the infants' uncertainty about the danger: Babies whose mothers showed fear never crossed the deep side, whereas 74% if those whose mothers smiled did (Sorce, Emde, Campos, & Klinnert, 1985)."

- Atkinson & Hilgard's Introduction to Psychology, 14th Ed. 2003, Wadsworth. Pg. 406

Quote:

The article is interesting, but my mommy smacked my a** when I did something bad and told my daddy, who told me I was stupid. So there goes that theory.

Ah, so this formative childhood trauma made it so that you could never focus on the similarities between yourself and others, which was the point I was making in referring to the Black & Phillips study.  

[CuAnnan]

You need to learn some cursory respect honorofdarkn3ss
You are being rude to a well learned member of the guild who provides sources. Personally, missmagpie and I don't get on, but I respect her and if you can't do that, then you're not adopting the right attitude to a well established member who has time and again proven herself to be not a fluffie.
In short, you're behaving like an immature child and I suggest it stop.

honorofdarkn3ss

Mozart was autistic.

No. He was an extra terrestrial, and like you, I'm not going to provide a source to back up my outlandish claim. It's entirely possible he was a savant, but I've seen no proof that he was autistic, what with it being incredibly hard and requiring a lot of tests to diagnose.

honorofdarkn3ss

If we could choose what we'd be good at half the world would not be sitting in cubicles.

*twitch*
You mean like a computer programmer? Something I chose to be? With a cubicle?
When missmagpie advised you to stop with the generalisations, you really should have listened.
Yes.... any idiot can work their way up to master piano player. It just takes dedication and practice.

honorofdarkn3ss

My statement still stands. Psychic awarenes and magick both deal with the metaphysical so I generalized it all under a single word. boohoo

Oh dear.... someone who doesn't understand the word metaphysical. Do you know why metaphysical encapsulates both? Because conventional science can't explain them.
To draw an analogy, forks are "not-spoons" and knives are "not-spoons" does that mean I can use the words forks and knives interchangably? No.

honorofdarkn3ss

Yes, I have considered this. I live with professional liars. My father is a detective and my mother is a nurse, and unless I'm really THAT good at reading body language, at the oh so worldy age of 16, that I can read THEIR emotions at random, then I'm pretty sure that what I'm doing is empathy, and not the aforementioned body language reading.

That's appeal to ignorance. We don't like the use of logical fallacies here.  

[honorofdarkn3ss]

Ouch.

I concead defeat.

As for the rude thing, I was just debating, and getting a feel for how people react to me. I will be more courtious in the future, and I'll find sources for common knowledge eventually. All in due time.

As for using magick, its a habit developed over time. If you have some allergic reaction to it you should tell me, so I can stop and give you some anti-histamines  

[CuAnnan]

honorofdarkn3ss

Ouch.

I concead defeat.

As for the rude thing, I was just debating, and getting a feel for how people react to me. I will be more courtious in the future, and I'll find sources for common knowledge eventually. All in due time.

...
We are not here to prove ourselves to you. We are here to disabuse fluffies of their foolish ignorant notions. Your attitude is very very similar to theirs.

honorofdarkn3ss

As for using magick, its a habit developed over time. If you have some allergic reaction to it you should tell me, so I can stop and give you some anti-histamines

See this... this is what I mean.
magick is not a word.
If it is a habit that you have, then break the habit.
Magick is a phrase Crowley made up to fit his magic squares.
It is intellectually sloppy to use it.  

[Molly Mollusca]

honorofdarkn3ss

Elfin Brill

Is walking a talent? eek Why is that?

Of course walking is a talent, some people trip a lot more then others
and attribute it to bad luck, but its really just them sucking at life.

Clearly I've been ignorant about the definition of "talent"? confused Can someone enlighten me please? Really, how can walking be a talent?  

[CuAnnan]

Elfin Brill

honorofdarkn3ss

Elfin Brill

Is walking a talent? eek Why is that?

Of course walking is a talent, some people trip a lot more then others
and attribute it to bad luck, but its really just them sucking at life.

Clearly I've been ignorant about the definition of "talent"? confused Can someone enlighten me please? Really, how can walking be a talent?

Watch people some time.
Set aside a day for it.
You'll see some people are elegant and graceful when they walk, some people aren't.
Then there's the whole "it's an olympic sport".
Then there's the whole "take seven people hill walking".

It's a talent insofar as such things exist. It is down to what natural abilities (balance, grace, dexterity, posture, pose) you have.  

[Molly Mollusca]

reagun ban

Watch people some time.
Set aside a day for it.
You'll see some people are elegant and graceful when they walk, some people aren't.
Then there's the whole "it's an olympic sport".
Then there's the whole "take seven people hill walking".

It's a talent insofar as such things exist. It is down to what natural abilities (balance, grace, dexterity, posture, pose) you have.

It seems I've been confused about the whole concept of talent. eek Some people loose they ability to walk at some point of life, although before they might have been real talents at it. That could happen to esoteric talents? Could someone become psychic deaf for instance for some reason or another, while before they where real talents in it?