Wiccan Deities

[Neko_Bast]

phoenix shadowwolf

neutral could you please explain how you can be a ditheistic pantheist who thinks that individual gods/desses have different personalities and traits?

all i've ever heard for understanding pantheism is that different gods are different aspects of the ultimate...

well...............by reading the myths its obvious the gods have individual and different personalities. I think that they all come from one god or goddess because of the similarities between the different gods and goddess. Sometimes its looks, other times its abilities, or their myths. It makes sense to me that there is one God, and one Goddess that are seen differently by different cultures. Its the culture that gives them their own personalities and in a sense, creates them. After so many people believe in a god or goddess they take on a life of their own and become who they are now. That is why (taking a example from Tea) Freya and Venus are both called on for love but are not the same goddess, or Loki and Coyote are both tricksters but not the same god. The cultures that they come from make them different.

[Kudzu]

Yes, but which ones? wink

lol..... biggrin Well, as I explained above, to me the Goddess is not only seen as other goddesses, but also the Maid, Mother, and Crone. I usually don't give her a name beyond the aspect I am calling on. Usually I just call her Goddess, or M.M.C., depending on the moon phase. The God is also seen as his various aspects, but also as the Sun God, Horned God, and Green Man. LOL.......I'm a little confusing.

I also acutely didn't get this from anyone. (at lest I don't think so) I had always thought that all Gods were one and all Goddesses were one. Ever since I was a little kid.  

[Doctrix]

Neko_Bast

the gods have individual and different personalities. I think that they all come from one god or goddess because of the similarities between the different gods and goddess. Sometimes its looks, other times its abilities, or their myths. It makes sense to me that there is one God, and one Goddess that are seen differently by different cultures.

Very interesting. Do you feel that your God and Goddess are also one and the same? In which case, do you think that you are essentially a monotheist?

Neko_Bast

Kudzu

Yes, but which ones? wink

To me the Goddess is not only seen as other goddesses, but also the Maid, Mother, and Crone. I usually don't give her a name beyond the aspect I am calling on. Usually I just call her Goddess, or M.M.C., depending on the moon phase. The God is also seen as his various aspects, but also as the Sun God, Horned God, and Green Man. LOL.......I'm a little confusing.

*lol* I know I'm confused! So, your main God and Goddess have no proper names? You simply call them by their descriptive terms, aspects or epithets? And since you believe that they are all other Gods and Goddesses combined, does that mean that all correspondences are their correspondences? *lol* Sorry that I'm so confused. It all seems so new and even un-Pagan to me! I guess I have a lot to learn about the beliefs of Pagans who are so different from Wiccans!  

[TeaDidikai]

What I am interested is in how one comes to terms with the issues that arise from Divine conflict. Such as the cat fight between Venus, Freya and Aphroditie I have mentioned in this guild.  

[Neko_Bast]

[Kudzu]

Very interesting. Do you feel that your God and Goddess are also one and the same? In which case, do you think that you are essentially a monotheist?

No, the God and Goddess might be two sides of the same coin so to speak, but not one in the same. The are man and woman, sun and moon, sky and earth....

[Kudzu]

*lol* I know I'm confused! So, your main God and Goddess have no proper names? You simply call them by their descriptive terms, aspects or epithets? And since you believe that they are all other Gods and Goddesses combined, does that mean that all correspondences are their correspondences? *lol* Sorry that I'm so confused. It all seems so new and even un-Pagan to me! I guess I have a lot to learn about the beliefs of Pagans who are so different from Wiccans!

biggrin ....lol....They have "proper names." But just like my secret name is not so much a word but a sense, so are their names. I know who I'm speaking to when I use their "descriptive names." As for their correspondences, from what I've learned, the Goddess and the God do encompass all. If I want a specific correspondence I call on a Goddess or God that rules over that correspondence specifically.

TeaDidikai

What I am interested is in how one comes to terms with the issues that arise from Divine conflict. Such as the cat fight between Venus, Freya and Aphroditie I have mentioned in this guild.

That is one reason I never cross pantheons when calling on the gods. It was a funny story thought. ^-^ Even though I believe that they came from the same Goddess, they have evolved into separate entities. These entities don't always get along. One has to take into consideration how the different cultures felt about each other, and the personalities of the gods in question. Those three would never let someone elts do what they would each see as "Her job."  

[saint dreya]

Neko_Bast

well...............by reading the myths its obvious the gods have individual and different personalities.

when i see 'personailty', i can't reconcile that with 'facets'. a facet does not have a personality. it is an aspect, and so, just is.

Neko_Bast

I think that they all come from one god or goddess because of the similarities between the different gods and goddess. Sometimes its looks, other times its abilities, or their myths.

yeah, there are similarities, but there are key differences as well. i'm not trying to get you to be a polytheist (as you seem to be a pantheist), just showing that to me, i can't really link some of what you're saying.

Neko_Bast

It makes sense to me that there is one God, and one Goddess that are seen differently by different cultures. Its the culture that gives them their own personalities and in a sense, creates them.

i don't know about that. personally, it makes me feel rather uncomfortable worshipping something that humans created. some of us don't think that man has the ability to create such beings.

Neko_Bast

After so many people believe in a god or goddess they take on a life of their own and become who they are now.

confused maybe that might come into play where a hero becomes a demigod, but i really can't think that certain gods are only resulted from humanity's imagination.

Neko_Bast

That is why (taking a example from Tea) Freya and Venus are both called on for love but are not the same goddess, or Loki and Coyote are both tricksters but not the same god. The cultures that they come from make them different.

yet gods can't really be pidgeon-holed like that. for one, Venus and Freya are significantly different, and not just based on their cultures. Venus and Freya are both certainly goddesses of love and beauty, but Venus is also attributed to fertility in agriculture, specifically gardens and vineyards, while Freya is also a warrior goddess. when calling on certain gods, sometimes you have to consider their subtle (or not so-subtle) flavors that make them significantly different from another cultures deity of the same function.

Neko_Bast

lol..... biggrin Well, as I explained above, to me the Goddess is not only seen as other goddesses, but also the Maid, Mother, and Crone. I usually don't give her a name beyond the aspect I am calling on. Usually I just call her Goddess, or M.M.C., depending on the moon phase. The God is also seen as his various aspects, but also as the Sun God, Horned God, and Green Man. LOL.......I'm a little confusing.

it does make sense to me really, at least this does. just as long as you realize it's not historically supported, that it is a recent belief. i'm not condemning it at all, though. for a while, i drew comfort from them (at least the maiden and crone aspects).  

[Neko_Bast]

phoenix shadowwolf

Neko_Bast

It makes sense to me that there is one God, and one Goddess that are seen differently by different cultures. Its the culture that gives them their own personalities and in a sense, creates them.

i don't know about that. personally, it makes me feel rather uncomfortable worshipping something that humans created. some of us don't think that man has the ability to create such beings.

ok....maybe create is the wrong word. But going on that, how were the gods found, if they weren't "created" by the people that worship them. Its not that I think the gods weren't there before, just that a they have to be thought up, or of, before they can be worshiped.

phoenix shadowwolf

Neko_Bast

After so many people believe in a god or goddess they take on a life of their own and become who they are now.

confused maybe that might come into play where a hero becomes a demigod, but i really can't think that certain gods are only resulted from humanity's imagination.

As I said above. They don't only result from humanity's imagination, but that it helped make them who they are. Although one should always think about what and who they were when their cultures where thriving. (I have a lot of trouble finding accurate info on Bast)

phoenix shadowwolf

Neko_Bast

That is why (taking a example from Tea) Freya and Venus are both called on for love but are not the same goddess, or Loki and Coyote are both tricksters but not the same god. The cultures that they come from make them different.

yet gods can't really be pigeon-holed like that. for one, Venus and Freya are significantly different, and not just based on their cultures. Venus and Freya are both certainly goddesses of love and beauty, but Venus is also attributed to fertility in agriculture, specifically gardens and vineyards, while Freya is also a warrior goddess. when calling on certain gods, sometimes you have to consider their subtle (or not so-subtle) flavors that make them significantly different from another cultures deity of the same function.

I only said love because that is what most people see them as, love goddesses. They are indeed quite different. One should certainly research any god or goddess before calling on them for something.  

[saint dreya]

Neko_Bast

phoenix shadowwolf

Neko_Bast

It makes sense to me that there is one God, and one Goddess that are seen differently by different cultures. Its the culture that gives them their own personalities and in a sense, creates them.

i don't know about that. personally, it makes me feel rather uncomfortable worshipping something that humans created. some of us don't think that man has the ability to create such beings.

ok....maybe create is the wrong word. But going on that, how were the gods found, if they weren't "created" by the people that worship them. Its not that I think the gods weren't there before, just that a they have to be thought up, or of, before they can be worshiped.

as i would entertain the notion, i'd say they were discovered/found out. i'm sure there are still many many many gods that have yet to either communicate effectively to show themselves, or really don't want to, or are very similar to the presently known gods that followers are continually mixing them up.  

[godhi]

Chaiyo Dekana

Well.... in that case....

Framed in Fire

-What deities (if any) do you worship/believe in?

I accept that all deities exist- how much of a "deity" one is differs, but that's a whole different concept and debate all together.

In short, I work a great deal with Mokosh, Lada, Amari De, Lado, Alako and a handful of other gods.

Quote:

-What does the word 'deity' mean to you?

Deity = God. God being a race and a job discription and not a name. My cosmology suggests that the gods took children amongst the different populations of the world and that no matter how similar one god is to another- they are still unique with their own personalities.

Example: Freya and Venus are not the same individual. Period.

I agree with you 100% on that one. In addition to having completely different temperaments and personalities, Freyja and Aphrodite (to use her Greek name) have completely different origins; Aphrodite is believed to have first been worshiped in Asia Minor, while the worship of Freyja was native to the people of Pagan Germany and Scandinavia.
Also, Aphrodite was the Goddess of Love while Freyja was both a Warrior Goddess, a Goddess of Love, and a Fertility Deity. Both goddesses might draw their power from the same divine wellspring, but they are separate entities with their own memories, abilities, and personalities.
Don't even get me started on the Pantheists who claim that Ostara, Aphrodite, and Sekhmet are the same goddess.  

[Neko_Bast]

godhi

Don't even get me started on the Pantheists who claim that Ostara, Aphrodite, and Sekhmet are the same goddess.

Sekhmet the same as those two? rofl wow.......anyone who thinks that has never read about those goddesses. I get pissed when people say that Sekhmet and Bast are the same, or when they say that Bast is a "sexual" goddess. She is sensual, not sexual. stare  

[saint dreya]

godhi

Don't even get me started on the Pantheists who claim that Ostara, Aphrodite, and Sekhmet are the same goddess.

lately, i've extended that to people who claim that Ares and Mars are the same...or any of the Roman gods=Greek gods... stressed  

[Neko_Bast]

That is an interesting controversy. Many teachers say they are the same, but at the same time many books say they are only similar. confused I'm not really sure what to think on the Rome gods=Greek gods thing. Some of them are almost exactly alike wile others have big differences.  

[saint dreya]

Neko_Bast

That is an interesting controversy. Many teachers say they are the same, but at the same time many books say they are only similar. confused I'm not really sure what to think on the Rome gods=Greek gods thing. Some of them are almost exactly alike wile others have big differences.

i highly recommend History of Pagan Europe by Nigel Pennick, as he covers a good portion (for the beginners, as i still am, xd ) about roman gods and some of their religion. i've yet to get to my other books on roman religion, but apparently, in his book, Pennick says that Mars actually has ties to being a god with some agricultural flavors, while still being a warrior god. as he was painted, he didn't at all seem to be as blood thirsty or as much of a war monger as Ares is painted.

on another interesting note, roman gods were not paired as the greek gods were (Hera and Zeus, Hephaestus and Aphrodite, etc), and only were 'joined' with a greek 'counterpart' during the hellinization of roman civilization.  

[Neko_Bast]

I'll look for that book, I love history. ^-^ My mom bought this book series called "Man and Myth." Each book is about a different cultures gods and myths. I think there are two on the Rome/Greek gods. In one of them it says that Mars had ties to agriculture, wile Aries didn't. I think i'll reread them.  

[Doctrix]

phoenix shadowwolf

i highly recommend History of Pagan Europe by Nigel Pennick, as he covers a good portion (for the beginners, as i still am, xd ) about roman gods and some of their religion.

I just have to say that I love that book! It's even interesting for folks like me who are often bored by history books!  

[bobz]

From readings today I think that mars later did become more warlike, though he earlier was the protector and nurturer of agriculture. That said it's unsubstantiated.
I'd see the greek and roman gods as.... similar yet different, it's what happens when two belief structures smush into one another.
Prehaps mars once had links to agriculture but later become warlike, later being sublimed into roman culture as ares... But that's a totally unsubstantiated theory so far. Does anyone have some good source texts on greek and roman religions? and on their timelines and how they interacted?
.....

Oh no, I'm doing it again. *smacks hand and drags self back back off this research tangent*