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| Who was justice? |
| Light |
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17% |
[ 9 ] |
| L |
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53% |
[ 28 ] |
| Neither |
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28% |
[ 15 ] |
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| Total Votes : 52 |
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 Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:35 pm
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 4:46 pm
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L of course. Justice isn't doing what's good for good necessarily, is it? Justice is doing good for everyone. While it's true criminals had their chance to be good citizens, they do NOT deserve to die for those actions, especially if it's something like robbery. Needless to say, I do not support the death penalty.
I think what L sees as Justice is everyone's right to freedom and happiness. We, as humans, have absolutely no right to judge and punish others for their wrongdoings since we are all human. By definition, humans are born with original sin. Punishing people like that is hypocrisy, especially in killing them. How does that make you any better than they?
Also, Justice doesn't see itself as God. That's ridiculous and arrogant.
L is Justice, and I have never and will never think otherwise. :]
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:30 pm
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Akiko-infinity Zaige Delecroix Anyone who thinks that either of these deeply flawed characters actually embodies justice has problems. That said, I would side with Light over L. While both of these characters had massive egos, I believe that Light truly wanted to make the world a better place. I don't believe that L cared one way or the other. His pursuit of Kira was pretty much just a game to him. Perhaps Light truly cared for the first few episodes. But power corrupts, and the power of the Death Note corrupted Light so fully that in the end, than worm killed by Ryuk at the end wasn't even recognizable as the innocent young man who picked up the Death Note at the beginning. And L truly did want justice. You simply have to remember that L, like Light, saw this as a war. Against each other. And I've said this before but I'll say it again: Define "Justice".
Light wanted to make the world a better place throughout the whole show. It just got to a point where Light cared more about being a God than anything else. And dictionary.com defines justice thus...
The administering of deserved punishment or reward.
At least that was one of 9 seperate definitions, but this one is most relevant. For the most part, Light was killing people who the world would be a better place without. If you see death as a punishment (I don't), Light was killing mostly people who deserved to die thus saving innocent people from being preyed upon by these immoral individuals (and thereby preventing a lot of injustices from happening). |
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 7:36 pm
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DeathNotesC L of course. Justice isn't doing what's good for good necessarily, is it? Justice is doing good for everyone. While it's true criminals had their chance to be good citizens, they do NOT deserve to die for those actions, especially if it's something like robbery. Needless to say, I do not support the death penalty.
I think what L sees as Justice is everyone's right to freedom and happiness. We, as humans, have absolutely no right to judge and punish others for their wrongdoings since we are all human. By definition, humans are born with original sin. Punishing people like that is hypocrisy, especially in killing them. How does that make you any better than they?
Also, Justice doesn't see itself as God. That's ridiculous and arrogant.
L is Justice, and I have never and will never think otherwise. :]
L supports the death penalty. He was going to have Kira executed once he was caught. How do you reconcile believing that L is justice with not supporting the death penalty? If you ask me, THAT stinks of hypocrisy more than anything. |
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:15 pm
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:19 pm
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:27 pm
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:37 pm
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Saiisawsome Sonrais Ishime Saiisawsome since I just joined I am going to say that L was more because he tried to stop murder from kira, but also Light was doing justice because he was stopping murder, but also he was causing murder in the process... hmm I think so... L was totally awesome up until he died, which sucked cry Then Mello came along and killed the presindent of America in that book Near finally cornered Light and Matsuda shot him Ryuk killed Light blaugh Light had carma bite him lol
Yes, all the actions have consequences.... I cry when L die... |
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 8:46 pm
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Sonrais Ishime Saiisawsome Sonrais Ishime Saiisawsome since I just joined I am going to say that L was more because he tried to stop murder from kira, but also Light was doing justice because he was stopping murder, but also he was causing murder in the process... hmm I think so... L was totally awesome up until he died, which sucked cry Then Mello came along and killed the presindent of America in that book Near finally cornered Light and Matsuda shot him Ryuk killed Light blaugh Light had carma bite him lol
Yes, all the actions have consequences.... I cry when L die...
yea so did I....L was to be my bf lol |
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 9:28 pm
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Zaige Delecroix At least that was one of 9 seperate definitions, but this one is most relevant. For the most part, Light was killing people who the world would be a better place without. If you see death as a punishment (I don't), Light was killing mostly people who deserved to die thus saving innocent people from being preyed upon by these immoral individuals (and thereby preventing a lot of injustices from happening).
Yeah, but by episode eight - which is, what, two months into his reign as Kira? - he's killing purse-snatchers. By episode sixteen, he's choosing someone to carry his torch specifically based on his propensity to kill innocents. And hell, in the very first episode he declares his intention to kill non-criminal, run-of-the-mill jerks.
So there were a hell of a lot of people who didn't deserve to die in there. I mean, except for the part where you're apparently Sweeney Todd. |
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Posted: Fri Mar 18, 2011 11:29 pm
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DomaDoma Zaige Delecroix At least that was one of 9 seperate definitions, but this one is most relevant. For the most part, Light was killing people who the world would be a better place without. If you see death as a punishment (I don't), Light was killing mostly people who deserved to die thus saving innocent people from being preyed upon by these immoral individuals (and thereby preventing a lot of injustices from happening). Yeah, but by episode eight - which is, what, two months into his reign as Kira? - he's killing purse-snatchers. By episode sixteen, he's choosing someone to carry his torch specifically based on his propensity to kill innocents. And hell, in the very first episode he declares his intention to kill non-criminal, run-of-the-mill jerks. So there were a hell of a lot of people who didn't deserve to die in there. I mean, except for the part where you're apparently Sweeney Todd.
Based on his propensiy to kill innocents? Are you referring to Higuchi? The "innocent" people he killed were largely business rivals. I think it is a safe bet that a lot of them were probably unscrupulous corporate tycoons like the members of Yotsuba. Now while a purse snatcher may not have commited a horrendous crime, he still steals purses from vulnerable women (or crossdressers razz ). A person like that is likely a pretty scummy, cowardly individual who the world would be better off without. Also take this into consideration; for all the innocent people that died by Light's hand, there had to have been hundreds (if not thousands) that were also saved. I would say that the gain was significantly greater than the losses. |
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 9:55 am
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Zaige Delecroix DomaDoma Zaige Delecroix At least that was one of 9 seperate definitions, but this one is most relevant. For the most part, Light was killing people who the world would be a better place without. If you see death as a punishment (I don't), Light was killing mostly people who deserved to die thus saving innocent people from being preyed upon by these immoral individuals (and thereby preventing a lot of injustices from happening). Yeah, but by episode eight - which is, what, two months into his reign as Kira? - he's killing purse-snatchers. By episode sixteen, he's choosing someone to carry his torch specifically based on his propensity to kill innocents. And hell, in the very first episode he declares his intention to kill non-criminal, run-of-the-mill jerks. So there were a hell of a lot of people who didn't deserve to die in there. I mean, except for the part where you're apparently Sweeney Todd. Based on his propensiy to kill innocents? Are you referring to Higuchi? The "innocent" people he killed were largely business rivals. I think it is a safe bet that a lot of them were probably unscrupulous corporate tycoons like the members of Yotsuba. Now while a purse snatcher may not have commited a horrendous crime, he still steals purses from vulnerable women (or crossdressers razz ). A person like that is likely a pretty scummy, cowardly individual who the world would be better off without. Also take this into consideration; for all the innocent people that died by Light's hand, there had to have been hundreds (if not thousands) that were also saved. I would say that the gain was significantly greater than the losses.
If they were reported as a purse-snatcher complete with photos, then they would have had something resembling proportionate retribution anyway, and maybe reconsidered doing it again. And if not, it's not just a matter of "subtract petty thief". Take Mikami's Parable of the Classroom and then suppose that everybody in that classroom had the same views on the matter as Mikami, i.e. that the bullies were struck down by God. That does not make for a happy, productive classroom. That makes for a classroom that won't put a toe out of line because they're scared.
External punishment is, of course, a hallmark of any functioning society. Hell, I said as much above. But Kira turns external punishment up to eleven, and so makes it much, much more important than actual common decency. That's why, during those two weeks Kira was inactive, crime soared well above what it had been before he started judgments. And it's why the Chin Dynasty fell apart the instant its founder kicked the bucket. |
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:11 am
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DomaDoma Zaige Delecroix DomaDoma Zaige Delecroix At least that was one of 9 seperate definitions, but this one is most relevant. For the most part, Light was killing people who the world would be a better place without. If you see death as a punishment (I don't), Light was killing mostly people who deserved to die thus saving innocent people from being preyed upon by these immoral individuals (and thereby preventing a lot of injustices from happening). Yeah, but by episode eight - which is, what, two months into his reign as Kira? - he's killing purse-snatchers. By episode sixteen, he's choosing someone to carry his torch specifically based on his propensity to kill innocents. And hell, in the very first episode he declares his intention to kill non-criminal, run-of-the-mill jerks. So there were a hell of a lot of people who didn't deserve to die in there. I mean, except for the part where you're apparently Sweeney Todd. Based on his propensiy to kill innocents? Are you referring to Higuchi? The "innocent" people he killed were largely business rivals. I think it is a safe bet that a lot of them were probably unscrupulous corporate tycoons like the members of Yotsuba. Now while a purse snatcher may not have commited a horrendous crime, he still steals purses from vulnerable women (or crossdressers razz ). A person like that is likely a pretty scummy, cowardly individual who the world would be better off without. Also take this into consideration; for all the innocent people that died by Light's hand, there had to have been hundreds (if not thousands) that were also saved. I would say that the gain was significantly greater than the losses. If they were reported as a purse-snatcher complete with photos, then they would have had something resembling proportionate retribution anyway, and maybe reconsidered doing it again. And if not, it's not just a matter of "subtract petty thief". Take Mikami's Parable of the Classroom and then suppose that everybody in that classroom had the same views on the matter as Mikami, i.e. that the bullies were struck down by God. That does not make for a happy, productive classroom. That makes for a classroom that won't put a toe out of line because they're scared. External punishment is, of course, a hallmark of any functioning society. Hell, I said as much above. But Kira turns external punishment up to eleven, and so makes it much, much more important than actual common decency. That's why, during those two weeks Kira was inactive, crime soared well above what it had been before he started judgments. And it's why the Chin Dynasty fell apart the instant its founder kicked the bucket.
Like I have said, I don't think of either L or Light as being Justice. I still think that the way Light punished people was better than the way it was when he wasn't. If I were in Light's position, I would try to work out a way that my reign could continue after my death. Maybe pass my power onto a worthy successor. That way, the world need never go back to the way it was. Give humanity enough time under a system and they will adapt.
And there is a difference between putting a toe out of line and being an outright bully. While I wouldn't see what happened to the bullies as an act of God, I WOULD still see their deaths as a good thing. Nine times out of ten (and I even think THAT might be being generous), if someone is an a*****e, then they will continue to be an a*****e throughout their life. Can they reform? Yes. However, I see it as being more important that decent people don't have to put up with those douchebags than it is for everyone to live despite what they choose to do with their lives. |
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:23 am
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Posted: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:40 am
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Zaige Delecroix And there is a difference between putting a toe out of line and being an outright bully.
There's also a difference between laziness and being an outright bully. How about tagging? Don't forget that suicide-by-tagging attempt in episode thirty. I'm sure that a lack of graffiti on the walls is worth a few hundred deaths.
And that's just what Light sets out to judge.
By episode three, he's killing mere suspects, and not the kind, like Otaharada, who are actually in the process of committing a crime and the news media is just being polite. By his third year of judgments, he's relying on this great big Lodge 341, this Defarge's Knitting Club, they call the Internet. Now, probably a plurality, if not a majority, of the information there comes from leaks by police officers. But police officers are hardly immune from mistakes, vendettas and plain bad faith; that's why we have a justice system, not just a whole bunch of police officers.
PS: Personally, I'd rather deal with the jerks in life than see them dead. But as I don't think we'll ever agree on that point, it's not part of my argument. |
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