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 Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:29 pm
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Shadows-shine I am LDS and I am a Christian. The Biblical definition of Christian is believing that Jesus Christ is the Lord and a willingness to take His name upon yourself and obey His commandments. The LDS Church does that. We do believe in modern revelation and a modern day prophet. There is nothing in the Bible that forbids that. These are the basic beliefs of the Church Quote: 1We abelieve in God, the Eternal Father, and in His Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost. 2We believe that men will be punished for their own sins, and not for Adam’s transgression. 3We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel. 4We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, Faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, Repentance; third, Baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; fourth, Laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost. 5We believe that a man must be called of God, by prophecy, and by the laying on of hands by those who are in authority, to preach the Gospel and administer in the ordinances thereof. 6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth. Elaborate further please 7We believe in the gift ofbtongues, prophecy, revelation, visions, healing, interpretation of tongues, and so forth. 8We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God. 9We believe all that God has revealed, all that He does now reveal, and we believe that He will yet reveal many great and important things pertaining to the Kingdom of God. 10We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its fparadisiacal glory. 11We claim the privilege of worshiping Almighty God according to the dictates of our own conscience, and allow all men the same privilege, let them worship how, where, or what they may. 12We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law. 13aWe believe in being honest, true, chaste, benevolent, virtuous, and in doing good to all men; indeed, we may say that we follow the admonition of Paul—We believe all things, we hope all things, we have endured many things, and hope to be able to endure all things. If there is anything virtuous, ilovely, or of good report or praiseworthy, we seek after these things.
(bolded things are things, i have a problem with or things that i simply don't understand what you meant.)Technically even if a man is punished for his own transgressions, it was Adam, and Eve's fault that we know of/are capable of these transgressions. Therefore, we are being punished for his transgressions, and i believe that's what people believe when they say we will be punished for his sins. On the other bolded thing, the bible is the sole source of God's written word in my book. He can talk to us individually still, of course, but i don't think he would randomly start a new doctrine for us all to follow. Also i have a problem with the American continent thing. Isn't the new Jerusalem in Israel? In the same place as the old Jerusalem. I think he was fairly clear about this. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:31 pm
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8Ares8 Mormans are not Christians because they do not believe Jesus is God's son and the only way to salvation. They believe that there are 3 levels of heaven the lowest level being so amazing that if you ever came back to earth you would want to kill yourself to return ((This level is reserved for *****, murderers, rapists, Hitler's and others)) They Second is for "normal" people and is better than the 3rd level The Highest level of heaven is basically you become a "god" being able to create your own universe if you so choose in fact they believe this is the case with God who was simply a man that was good enough to become a "god" This reveals they are not Christian And lastly they believe that the native americans are the lost tribes of isreal which has been disproved because of genetics revealing that native americans are not related to the jewish/hebrew people and also the finding of people groups in the rainforests of Africa, Burma and other various regions of the eastern hemisphere that are genetically belong to the hebrew people and still follow the ways and practices of the old testament hebrews. In total No Mormans are not Christian Edit: They also believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers
If all this is true, then i whole heartily agree with you, well besides the genetics thing, i don't believe we should base our thoughts on God on something we found on genetics, and science in which our understanding is constantly changing. I would like to hear what the resident mormon has to say to this before i make my judgment though. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:40 pm
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Zolof Keeper Of Souls 8Ares8 Mormans are not Christians because they do not believe Jesus is God's son and the only way to salvation. They believe that there are 3 levels of heaven the lowest level being so amazing that if you ever came back to earth you would want to kill yourself to return ((This level is reserved for *****, murderers, rapists, Hitler's and others)) They Second is for "normal" people and is better than the 3rd level The Highest level of heaven is basically you become a "god" being able to create your own universe if you so choose in fact they believe this is the case with God who was simply a man that was good enough to become a "god" This reveals they are not Christian And lastly they believe that the native americans are the lost tribes of isreal which has been disproved because of genetics revealing that native americans are not related to the jewish/hebrew people and also the finding of people groups in the rainforests of Africa, Burma and other various regions of the eastern hemisphere that are genetically belong to the hebrew people and still follow the ways and practices of the old testament hebrews. In total No Mormans are not Christian Edit: They also believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers If all this is true, then i whole heartily agree with you, well besides the genetics thing, i don't believe we should base our thoughts on God on something we found on genetics, and science in which our understanding is constantly changing. I would like to hear what the resident mormon has to say to this before i make my judgment though. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:45 pm
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8Ares8 Zolof Keeper Of Souls 8Ares8 Mormans are not Christians because they do not believe Jesus is God's son and the only way to salvation. They believe that there are 3 levels of heaven the lowest level being so amazing that if you ever came back to earth you would want to kill yourself to return ((This level is reserved for *****, murderers, rapists, Hitler's and others)) They Second is for "normal" people and is better than the 3rd level The Highest level of heaven is basically you become a "god" being able to create your own universe if you so choose in fact they believe this is the case with God who was simply a man that was good enough to become a "god" This reveals they are not Christian And lastly they believe that the native americans are the lost tribes of isreal which has been disproved because of genetics revealing that native americans are not related to the jewish/hebrew people and also the finding of people groups in the rainforests of Africa, Burma and other various regions of the eastern hemisphere that are genetically belong to the hebrew people and still follow the ways and practices of the old testament hebrews. In total No Mormans are not Christian Edit: They also believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers If all this is true, then i whole heartily agree with you, well besides the genetics thing, i don't believe we should base our thoughts on God on something we found on genetics, and science in which our understanding is constantly changing. I would like to hear what the resident mormon has to say to this before i make my judgment though. Well My belief as far as science is that God created science and would not allow it to lead us astray. So if science does disprove something it is not of God. Also realize science has never disproved anything in the bible.
I believe God created science,but the human mind is so fragile some of the smallest things can lead us astray. Small wooden statues have been leading us astray for thousands of years, so why can't our modern science, at least that's my view. I completely understand where you coming from, and it's true that science hasn't disproved anything from the bible, although scientist take some results and assume that because it is almost true, or makes sense, like evolution, it immediate disproves God, which is most certainly doesn't. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 1:50 pm
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Zolof Keeper Of Souls 8Ares8 Zolof Keeper Of Souls 8Ares8 Mormans are not Christians because they do not believe Jesus is God's son and the only way to salvation. They believe that there are 3 levels of heaven the lowest level being so amazing that if you ever came back to earth you would want to kill yourself to return ((This level is reserved for *****, murderers, rapists, Hitler's and others)) They Second is for "normal" people and is better than the 3rd level The Highest level of heaven is basically you become a "god" being able to create your own universe if you so choose in fact they believe this is the case with God who was simply a man that was good enough to become a "god" This reveals they are not Christian And lastly they believe that the native americans are the lost tribes of isreal which has been disproved because of genetics revealing that native americans are not related to the jewish/hebrew people and also the finding of people groups in the rainforests of Africa, Burma and other various regions of the eastern hemisphere that are genetically belong to the hebrew people and still follow the ways and practices of the old testament hebrews. In total No Mormans are not Christian Edit: They also believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers If all this is true, then i whole heartily agree with you, well besides the genetics thing, i don't believe we should base our thoughts on God on something we found on genetics, and science in which our understanding is constantly changing. I would like to hear what the resident mormon has to say to this before i make my judgment though. Well My belief as far as science is that God created science and would not allow it to lead us astray. So if science does disprove something it is not of God. Also realize science has never disproved anything in the bible. I believe God created science,but the human mind is so fragile some of the smallest things can lead us astray. Small wooden statues have been leading us astray for thousands of years, so why can't our modern science, at least that's my view. I completely understand where you coming from, and it's true that science hasn't disproved anything from the bible, although scientist take some results and assume that because it is almost true, or makes sense, like evolution, it immediate disproves God, which is most certainly doesn't. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:04 pm
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8Ares8 Mormans are not Christians because they do not believe Jesus is God's son and the only way to salvation. They believe that there are 3 levels of heaven the lowest level being so amazing that if you ever came back to earth you would want to kill yourself to return ((This level is reserved for *****, murderers, rapists, Hitler's and others)) They Second is for "normal" people and is better than the 3rd level The Highest level of heaven is basically you become a "god" being able to create your own universe if you so choose in fact they believe this is the case with God who was simply a man that was good enough to become a "god" This reveals they are not Christian And lastly they believe that the native americans are the lost tribes of isreal which has been disproved because of genetics revealing that native americans are not related to the jewish/hebrew people and also the finding of people groups in the rainforests of Africa, Burma and other various regions of the eastern hemisphere that are genetically belong to the hebrew people and still follow the ways and practices of the old testament hebrews. In total No Mormans are not Christian Edit: They also believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers
I'd really like to see some sources, particularly about the multiple levels of heaven. I've heard that idea of multiple levels of heaven before, but I've yet to see an scripture or doctrine to back it up. I've also heard different numbers of levels or different levels designated for other people. Besides, the Bible has very little to say about heaven and it's nature anyway, so I can't think of anything in the Bible that would directly contradict this idea.
Robbie made a good point about the getting your own planet or world thing, because in a sense, we already are masters of our own domain. I think the word "god" is kind of... not what we think it to mean anyway. Kind of like how Hinduism as thousands of "gods" but it's really monotheistic but simply polysymbolic.
I've heard the Native American theory before, which is kind of here nor there for me. I mean, Native Americans have much more in common with the natives of Siberia, both genetically as well as culturally (their primal religions share many similar features). But this is kind of a moot point for me anyway, because I don't really take the creation stories literally anyway. My understand is also that the Natives the Book of Mormon is about died out anyway, meaning we wouldn't have any living descendants.
I also don't see an issue with the Jesus and Lucifer being brothers thing either, because the Bible says very, very little on the subject of Satan, and I'm not sure if it ever mentions Satan by the name Lucifer. Satan in the OT is actually in God's inner circle. 90% of what we think we know of the Devil comes from tradition and lore, so we have no scripture to guide us in one way or another.
Shadow-shine, I'd be really interested in hearing your input smile |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:29 pm
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freelance lover 8Ares8 Mormans are not Christians because they do not believe Jesus is God's son and the only way to salvation. They believe that there are 3 levels of heaven the lowest level being so amazing that if you ever came back to earth you would want to kill yourself to return ((This level is reserved for *****, murderers, rapists, Hitler's and others)) They Second is for "normal" people and is better than the 3rd level The Highest level of heaven is basically you become a "god" being able to create your own universe if you so choose in fact they believe this is the case with God who was simply a man that was good enough to become a "god" This reveals they are not Christian And lastly they believe that the native americans are the lost tribes of isreal which has been disproved because of genetics revealing that native americans are not related to the jewish/hebrew people and also the finding of people groups in the rainforests of Africa, Burma and other various regions of the eastern hemisphere that are genetically belong to the hebrew people and still follow the ways and practices of the old testament hebrews. In total No Mormans are not Christian Edit: They also believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers
Robbie made a good point about the getting your own planet or world thing, because in a sense, we already are masters of our own domain. I think the word "god" is kind of... not what we think it to mean anyway. Kind of like how Hinduism as thousands of "gods" but it's really monotheistic but simply polysymbolic.
I've heard the Native American theory before, which is kind of here nor there for me. I mean, Native Americans have much more in common with the natives of Siberia, both genetically as well as culturally (their primal religions share many similar features). But this is kind of a moot point for me anyway, because I don't really take the creation stories literally anyway. My understand is also that the Natives the Book of Mormon is about died out anyway, meaning we wouldn't have any living descendants.
I also don't see an issue with the Jesus and Lucifer being brothers thing either, because the Bible says very, very little on the subject of Satan, and I'm not sure if it ever mentions Satan by the name Lucifer. Satan in the OT is actually in God's inner circle. 90% of what we think we know of the Devil comes from tradition and lore, so we have no scripture to guide us in one way or another.
Shadow-shine, I'd be really interested in hearing your input smile
Well in the bible Jesus is God's one and only son. So right there Mormons have changed the bible which is against the word of God
And the bible doesn't refer to satan as lucifer, but I believe it originated from latin.
The bible has one way to heaven accepting Jesus into one's heart and repenting of one's sins. This may have been different in the OT because Christ as a human had yet to be born. While the LTDS have multiple ways into heaven
Also "The most important, distinctive and defended doctrine of Mormonism can be summed up by the famous couplet of Mormon President Lorenzo Snow (president from 1898-1901). This couplet can be recited by every moderately knowledgeable Latter-day Saint (as Mormons call themselves): As man now is, God once was; As God now is, Man may become." This truly breaks the commandment that thou shalt not have any other gods because you essentially would be making yourself a god and actually if this is one's aim as a mormon you are committing the same sin as satan.
http://www.ag.org/pentecostal-evangel/Articles2002/4579_spencer.cfm |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:37 pm
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freelance lover 8Ares8 Mormans are not Christians because they do not believe Jesus is God's son and the only way to salvation. They believe that there are 3 levels of heaven the lowest level being so amazing that if you ever came back to earth you would want to kill yourself to return ((This level is reserved for *****, murderers, rapists, Hitler's and others)) They Second is for "normal" people and is better than the 3rd level The Highest level of heaven is basically you become a "god" being able to create your own universe if you so choose in fact they believe this is the case with God who was simply a man that was good enough to become a "god" This reveals they are not Christian And lastly they believe that the native americans are the lost tribes of isreal which has been disproved because of genetics revealing that native americans are not related to the jewish/hebrew people and also the finding of people groups in the rainforests of Africa, Burma and other various regions of the eastern hemisphere that are genetically belong to the hebrew people and still follow the ways and practices of the old testament hebrews. In total No Mormans are not Christian Edit: They also believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers
Robbie made a good point about the getting your own planet or world thing, because in a sense, we already are masters of our own domain. I think the word "god" is kind of... not what we think it to mean anyway. Kind of like how Hinduism as thousands of "gods" but it's really monotheistic but simply polysymbolic.
I've heard the Native American theory before, which is kind of here nor there for me. I mean, Native Americans have much more in common with the natives of Siberia, both genetically as well as culturally (their primal religions share many similar features). But this is kind of a moot point for me anyway, because I don't really take the creation stories literally anyway. My understand is also that the Natives the Book of Mormon is about died out anyway, meaning we wouldn't have any living descendants.
I also don't see an issue with the Jesus and Lucifer being brothers thing either, because the Bible says very, very little on the subject of Satan, and I'm not sure if it ever mentions Satan by the name Lucifer. Satan in the OT is actually in God's inner circle. 90% of what we think we know of the Devil comes from tradition and lore, so we have no scripture to guide us in one way or another.
Shadow-shine, I'd be really interested in hearing your input smile
At this moment i am only going to answer the bit about satan, mostly because i don't know the verses to contradict the rest, at least the exact ones there are many verses about heaven though, and it is fairly clear that the murders and the like, if they haven't repeented, will NOT go to heaven, of any level. So that doctrine is completely contradicted by the bible. Also Jesus is God, and if Jesus is God, and satan is Jesus' brother then that would make satan God too, and if you truely believe this, then i find it hard to call you a christian. It also mentions that satan was, in fact, an angel. Since he is an angel, and Jesus is above the angels, and can command then, then there is no way for him to be a brother of Jesus. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:41 pm
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8Ares8 freelance lover 8Ares8 Mormans are not Christians because they do not believe Jesus is God's son and the only way to salvation. They believe that there are 3 levels of heaven the lowest level being so amazing that if you ever came back to earth you would want to kill yourself to return ((This level is reserved for *****, murderers, rapists, Hitler's and others)) They Second is for "normal" people and is better than the 3rd level The Highest level of heaven is basically you become a "god" being able to create your own universe if you so choose in fact they believe this is the case with God who was simply a man that was good enough to become a "god" This reveals they are not Christian And lastly they believe that the native americans are the lost tribes of isreal which has been disproved because of genetics revealing that native americans are not related to the jewish/hebrew people and also the finding of people groups in the rainforests of Africa, Burma and other various regions of the eastern hemisphere that are genetically belong to the hebrew people and still follow the ways and practices of the old testament hebrews. In total No Mormans are not Christian Edit: They also believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers
Robbie made a good point about the getting your own planet or world thing, because in a sense, we already are masters of our own domain. I think the word "god" is kind of... not what we think it to mean anyway. Kind of like how Hinduism as thousands of "gods" but it's really monotheistic but simply polysymbolic.
I've heard the Native American theory before, which is kind of here nor there for me. I mean, Native Americans have much more in common with the natives of Siberia, both genetically as well as culturally (their primal religions share many similar features). But this is kind of a moot point for me anyway, because I don't really take the creation stories literally anyway. My understand is also that the Natives the Book of Mormon is about died out anyway, meaning we wouldn't have any living descendants.
I also don't see an issue with the Jesus and Lucifer being brothers thing either, because the Bible says very, very little on the subject of Satan, and I'm not sure if it ever mentions Satan by the name Lucifer. Satan in the OT is actually in God's inner circle. 90% of what we think we know of the Devil comes from tradition and lore, so we have no scripture to guide us in one way or another.
Shadow-shine, I'd be really interested in hearing your input smile I am sorry all of that was off hand though only the bit about the levels of heaven is a bit off. There are 6 after death "worlds" the 3 heavens as stated but also a temporary hell for the "Truly wicked" ((fallen angels?)) The lowest level of heaven still allows for horrible things. Well in the bible Jesus is God's one and only son. So right there Mormons have changed the bible which is against the word of God And the bible doesn't refer to satan as lucifer, but I believe it originated from latin. The bible has one way to heaven accepting Jesus into one's heart and repenting of one's sins. This may have been different in the OT because Christ as a human had yet to be born. While the LTDS have multiple ways into heaven Also "The most important, distinctive and defended doctrine of Mormonism can be summed up by the famous couplet of Mormon President Lorenzo Snow (president from 1898-1901). This couplet can be recited by every moderately knowledgeable Latter-day Saint (as Mormons call themselves): As man now is, God once was; As God now is, Man may become." This truly breaks the commandment that thou shalt not have any other gods because you essentially would be making yourself a god and actually if this is one's aim as a mormon you are committing the same sin as satan. http://www.ag.org/pentecostal-evangel/Articles2002/4579_spencer.cfm
I get the lack of references, I get a lot of things off the top of my head too. xD
Okay, the Satan thing makes a little more sense. It's still a moot point to me... since I don't really believe in Satan anyway.
I've only ever heard Mormons say salvation is possible through Jesus. Is there also a salvation by good works doctrine? That wouldn't be exclusive to Mormonism then, and it's not really a doctrine I have an issue with anyway. I know in the FLDS there's the belief that a man needs to have multiple wives, generally at least three to get into a good spot in heaven, but seeing as the mainstream LDS no long practices that, I'd assume that belief has been snubbed out. I wonder if there are similar ideas though.
I think the issue with the "god" thing is simple semantics. I can read the statement you gave as a desire to become God, or as a desire to become god-like, in other words, Christ-like. Becoming like Christ is something commonly discussed in all different kinds of churches. It may also refer to the idea of salvation getting your own planet, which I've already touched on. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:46 pm
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Zolof Keeper Of Souls freelance lover 8Ares8 Mormans are not Christians because they do not believe Jesus is God's son and the only way to salvation. They believe that there are 3 levels of heaven the lowest level being so amazing that if you ever came back to earth you would want to kill yourself to return ((This level is reserved for *****, murderers, rapists, Hitler's and others)) They Second is for "normal" people and is better than the 3rd level The Highest level of heaven is basically you become a "god" being able to create your own universe if you so choose in fact they believe this is the case with God who was simply a man that was good enough to become a "god" This reveals they are not Christian And lastly they believe that the native americans are the lost tribes of isreal which has been disproved because of genetics revealing that native americans are not related to the jewish/hebrew people and also the finding of people groups in the rainforests of Africa, Burma and other various regions of the eastern hemisphere that are genetically belong to the hebrew people and still follow the ways and practices of the old testament hebrews. In total No Mormans are not Christian Edit: They also believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers
Robbie made a good point about the getting your own planet or world thing, because in a sense, we already are masters of our own domain. I think the word "god" is kind of... not what we think it to mean anyway. Kind of like how Hinduism as thousands of "gods" but it's really monotheistic but simply polysymbolic.
I've heard the Native American theory before, which is kind of here nor there for me. I mean, Native Americans have much more in common with the natives of Siberia, both genetically as well as culturally (their primal religions share many similar features). But this is kind of a moot point for me anyway, because I don't really take the creation stories literally anyway. My understand is also that the Natives the Book of Mormon is about died out anyway, meaning we wouldn't have any living descendants.
I also don't see an issue with the Jesus and Lucifer being brothers thing either, because the Bible says very, very little on the subject of Satan, and I'm not sure if it ever mentions Satan by the name Lucifer. Satan in the OT is actually in God's inner circle. 90% of what we think we know of the Devil comes from tradition and lore, so we have no scripture to guide us in one way or another.
Shadow-shine, I'd be really interested in hearing your input smile At this moment i am only going to answer the bit about satan, mostly because i don't know the verses to contradict the rest, at least the exact ones there are many verses about heaven though, and it is fairly clear that the murders and the like, if they haven't repeented, will NOT go to heaven, of any level. So that doctrine is completely contradicted by the bible. Also Jesus is God, and if Jesus is God, and satan is Jesus' brother then that would make satan God too, and if you truely believe this, then i find it hard to call you a christian. It also mentions that satan was, in fact, an angel. Since he is an angel, and Jesus is above the angels, and can command then, then there is no way for him to be a brother of Jesus.
Satan is an angel in the OT- he's actually in God's inner circle, but we see a kind of unexplained shift in the demeanor and understanding of Satan in the NT, when he becomes wicked and a tempter.
As I stated before, I don't really believe in Satan in the traditional sense, so it's kind of a moot point for me. However I think the idea is less that they are literally brothers and more trying to make a contrast between good and evil. This is a pretty common idea in other religions too (case and point: Daoism). I don't think the implication was every that Satan is a God as well, I just get the feeling it's doctrine that is difficult to explain without making it sound funky. I dunno, I'd need to do some reading on this. It's hard to know for sure without referring to the actual text. |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 2:58 pm
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freelance lover Zolof Keeper Of Souls freelance lover 8Ares8 Mormans are not Christians because they do not believe Jesus is God's son and the only way to salvation. They believe that there are 3 levels of heaven the lowest level being so amazing that if you ever came back to earth you would want to kill yourself to return ((This level is reserved for *****, murderers, rapists, Hitler's and others)) They Second is for "normal" people and is better than the 3rd level The Highest level of heaven is basically you become a "god" being able to create your own universe if you so choose in fact they believe this is the case with God who was simply a man that was good enough to become a "god" This reveals they are not Christian And lastly they believe that the native americans are the lost tribes of isreal which has been disproved because of genetics revealing that native americans are not related to the jewish/hebrew people and also the finding of people groups in the rainforests of Africa, Burma and other various regions of the eastern hemisphere that are genetically belong to the hebrew people and still follow the ways and practices of the old testament hebrews. In total No Mormans are not Christian Edit: They also believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers
Robbie made a good point about the getting your own planet or world thing, because in a sense, we already are masters of our own domain. I think the word "god" is kind of... not what we think it to mean anyway. Kind of like how Hinduism as thousands of "gods" but it's really monotheistic but simply polysymbolic.
I've heard the Native American theory before, which is kind of here nor there for me. I mean, Native Americans have much more in common with the natives of Siberia, both genetically as well as culturally (their primal religions share many similar features). But this is kind of a moot point for me anyway, because I don't really take the creation stories literally anyway. My understand is also that the Natives the Book of Mormon is about died out anyway, meaning we wouldn't have any living descendants.
I also don't see an issue with the Jesus and Lucifer being brothers thing either, because the Bible says very, very little on the subject of Satan, and I'm not sure if it ever mentions Satan by the name Lucifer. Satan in the OT is actually in God's inner circle. 90% of what we think we know of the Devil comes from tradition and lore, so we have no scripture to guide us in one way or another.
Shadow-shine, I'd be really interested in hearing your input smile At this moment i am only going to answer the bit about satan, mostly because i don't know the verses to contradict the rest, at least the exact ones there are many verses about heaven though, and it is fairly clear that the murders and the like, if they haven't repeented, will NOT go to heaven, of any level. So that doctrine is completely contradicted by the bible. Also Jesus is God, and if Jesus is God, and satan is Jesus' brother then that would make satan God too, and if you truely believe this, then i find it hard to call you a christian. It also mentions that satan was, in fact, an angel. Since he is an angel, and Jesus is above the angels, and can command then, then there is no way for him to be a brother of Jesus.
As I stated before, I don't really believe in Satan in the traditional sense, so it's kind of a moot point for me. However I think the idea is less that they are literally brothers and more trying to make a contrast between good and evil. This is a pretty common idea in other religions too (case and point: Daoism). I don't think the implication was every that Satan is a God as well, I just get the feeling it's doctrine that is difficult to explain without making it sound funky. I dunno, I'd need to do some reading on this. It's hard to know for sure without referring to the actual text.
Also on that subject of God-like and Christ-like
God-like is wanting to become a god yourself while Christ like is to follow Jesus's example while he was here on earth. Not in any way trying to become a god |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:01 pm
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8Ares8 freelance lover Zolof Keeper Of Souls freelance lover 8Ares8 Mormans are not Christians because they do not believe Jesus is God's son and the only way to salvation. They believe that there are 3 levels of heaven the lowest level being so amazing that if you ever came back to earth you would want to kill yourself to return ((This level is reserved for *****, murderers, rapists, Hitler's and others)) They Second is for "normal" people and is better than the 3rd level The Highest level of heaven is basically you become a "god" being able to create your own universe if you so choose in fact they believe this is the case with God who was simply a man that was good enough to become a "god" This reveals they are not Christian And lastly they believe that the native americans are the lost tribes of isreal which has been disproved because of genetics revealing that native americans are not related to the jewish/hebrew people and also the finding of people groups in the rainforests of Africa, Burma and other various regions of the eastern hemisphere that are genetically belong to the hebrew people and still follow the ways and practices of the old testament hebrews. In total No Mormans are not Christian Edit: They also believe that Christ and Lucifer are brothers
Robbie made a good point about the getting your own planet or world thing, because in a sense, we already are masters of our own domain. I think the word "god" is kind of... not what we think it to mean anyway. Kind of like how Hinduism as thousands of "gods" but it's really monotheistic but simply polysymbolic.
I've heard the Native American theory before, which is kind of here nor there for me. I mean, Native Americans have much more in common with the natives of Siberia, both genetically as well as culturally (their primal religions share many similar features). But this is kind of a moot point for me anyway, because I don't really take the creation stories literally anyway. My understand is also that the Natives the Book of Mormon is about died out anyway, meaning we wouldn't have any living descendants.
I also don't see an issue with the Jesus and Lucifer being brothers thing either, because the Bible says very, very little on the subject of Satan, and I'm not sure if it ever mentions Satan by the name Lucifer. Satan in the OT is actually in God's inner circle. 90% of what we think we know of the Devil comes from tradition and lore, so we have no scripture to guide us in one way or another.
Shadow-shine, I'd be really interested in hearing your input smile At this moment i am only going to answer the bit about satan, mostly because i don't know the verses to contradict the rest, at least the exact ones there are many verses about heaven though, and it is fairly clear that the murders and the like, if they haven't repeented, will NOT go to heaven, of any level. So that doctrine is completely contradicted by the bible. Also Jesus is God, and if Jesus is God, and satan is Jesus' brother then that would make satan God too, and if you truely believe this, then i find it hard to call you a christian. It also mentions that satan was, in fact, an angel. Since he is an angel, and Jesus is above the angels, and can command then, then there is no way for him to be a brother of Jesus.
As I stated before, I don't really believe in Satan in the traditional sense, so it's kind of a moot point for me. However I think the idea is less that they are literally brothers and more trying to make a contrast between good and evil. This is a pretty common idea in other religions too (case and point: Daoism). I don't think the implication was every that Satan is a God as well, I just get the feeling it's doctrine that is difficult to explain without making it sound funky. I dunno, I'd need to do some reading on this. It's hard to know for sure without referring to the actual text.Look at Job Satan defied God just because God loved him and he was the leader of worship in heaven. But he tried to overthrow God because he wanted God's power. God cast him into hell, but he still tempted people Like I said Job is an old testament book. The only reason satan seems to be more evil in the New Testament is because he is directly dealing with the son of God. Also on that subject of God-like and Christ-like God-like is wanting to become a god yourself while Christ like is to follow Jesus's example while he was here on earth. Not in any way trying to become a god
I've always seen it as satan is not in hell yet. Therefore he is still able to tempt people. Doesn't he not go to hell till judgment day? |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:03 pm
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:05 pm
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Shadows-shine xxEverBluexx I've been locked inside that house, all the while You hold key
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of meMy mom has a lecture on why they aren't, and simply put it comes down to the fact they added to the Bible and they don't believe in Trinity theory...oh, and also that they'll "steal sheep from other flocks". She says they witness to Christians from other denominations, and that's not right. Meh. I don't know or care about the topic enough to give my own opinion. I might read up on it later though. And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave Believing in the trinity doesn't make one Christian. And how do the LDS steal from other flocks? I've had protestant missionaries come proselyte to me and try to convert me. Would they be stealing from the flock then? Churches send out missionaries all the time. So I guess I don't see what's wrong with the LDS doing that too. We're all commanded to spread the gospel.
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
Like I said, I have no opinion. wink As for the flocks thing...someone else doing something to you is no excuse to go and do that to someone else. If you think you're Christian, you shouldn't be witnessing to other Christians, even if they're treating you like you aren't Christian. And we're non-denominational; our beliefs might be close to the Protestants, but technically as far as I'm concerned that means we're out of the denomination wars so don't talk to me about what the Protestants do.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave |
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Posted: Tue Mar 15, 2011 3:06 pm
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