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 Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:59 pm
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Ravynne Sidhe `Though thy crest be shorn and shaven, thou,' I said, `art sure no craven.
Ghastly grim and ancient raven wandering from the nightly shore - If you read further down Matthew it says that you should take the log out of your own eye before you examine someone's speck. Because of those verses I'm not going to sit here and point out other people's faults when I do the same thing as them. Again that further proves I'm not sinless.
And actually Jesus stood up against the Pharisees. He hated just how much they clung to their religion more than they clung to God. We should instead of picking at someone's faults just simply love our neighbor as well as our enemy. Because simply judging someone regardless if they're a Christian or not simply means we are no better than the Pharisees 2000+ years ago. If we truly live by Grace, then you should do what Jesus did, live his life. Not just accept his name and throw out the Law of Agape because we feel the need too.
The police's job is to police. That is their primary function. Our primary function is to worship God according to most Christians not get involved with other people's issues. That is God's job. It's also God's job to convert. I'll explain this in simple terms: When you judge someone you are doing God's job. When a citizen arrests a criminal you are doing the police's job. You are not God, nor are you the police. You have no right to judge others, nor do you have the right to arrest other people. God can do his job just fine without the meddling of a mortal human just like the police can do their job just fine without the meddling of a citizen.
Edit: Actually you don't have to be a hermit to keep your life private. As my dad says: Treat people like mushrooms, feed them crap and watch them grow. I don't tell people I don't trust what goes on in my life. The only people who actually know are my friends. And even then there are times I keep a tight lid on my affairs and do it quite well which is why half of my friends joke around and call me an enigma. neutral Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.' Tell me what thy lordly name is on the Night's Plutonian shore!'
Quoth the raven, `Nevermore.'
Hmm... I suppose to accurately express my opinion on this I need to make two things known.
1.) I do not consider the Bible the absolute Word of God, I consider it a series of documents put together in order to form a unifying text for the Christian faith. Is it a wonderful guide to life? Absolutely, can some parts be ignored? Absolutely.
For example; The Bible says quite clearly "Thou shalt not lie with a man the way thou lies with a woman." (I cannot remember the verse right now, but if anyone knows it fell free to say so). Despite this verse however, I believe being gay is not a sin, if I believed in the Bible as the absolute word of God then I would have no choice but to accept someone being gay as sin.
2.) I do not believe God intervenes in any way shape or form in daily life. In other words I do not think God "does" anything or acts "through" anyone. My reasoning for this is I believe that God does not do anything because He loves us too much. That is a topic for another discussion however.
So, when you said Ravynne that it was not my job to arrest someone, I will have to disagree with you. (Also, the individual citizen does have this right, it is called a citizen's arrest.) Using Blue's example, if I saw a molester touching a little girl or boy inappropriately I hope I would do more than simply call the police. This conclusion comes from the fact that I believe not acting when I have the power to do so is the same as committing the crime. In other words, if I saw someone touching a child in an inappropriate manner and did nothing then in my mind I am just as guilty because I chose to allow the action to continue. (Is any of this making sense?)
However, I will agree with you that we shouldn't judge others, but I agree with Blue's definition in the sense of judging as condemning, if someone asks I will give my opinion on their actions, or if I think the action is dangerous I will also give my opinion whether asked or not.
I guess what I'm trying to say is that I agree with you that we should not force our beliefs on others under any circumstance. However, I will do something if that person's beliefs cause them to commit harmful acts against others or themselves.
(when it comes to acts to themselves depends on the action, etc.) |
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Posted: Tue Feb 22, 2011 4:39 pm
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xxEverBluexx freelance lover xxEverBluexx
I know what you mean, and I can't say I would tell anyone I was close to that they shouldn't be having sex before marriage (I have at least one Christian friend who's sleeps with her boyfriend, and there's no way I'd say anything to her unless she asked my opinion or God said I should). I just also don't think people live in a bubble where God and they make the only decisions about their life. Person X has factors A-Z to deal with as well. Maybe person X and God are the only two who can change person X, but beyond that factors A-Z still have an influence.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave
I think where I get uncomfortable with even accoutability partner type issues is where we see the power to abuse those priviledges. I had a friend who was close to me for a long time, and he would frequently tell me who and who I couldn't date, kiss, etc, and when I got upset with him he told me he was just trying to keep me "accountable." My first real boyfriend he put down all the time to my face, because he felt he didn't treat me well (when in reality he treated me far better than this friend ever did). When I started dating this guy after my friend broke my heart, he kept pressuring me by asking if "this was what God intended." He was dating his skanky ex at the time, and just wanted me around and undistracted in case things didn't work out. When I started dating my boyfriend, he and I had been planning to pick up the physical relationship we had ended when he started dating said ex, and routinely told me not to get involved with my boyfriend and not to kiss him. When wen did start dating and I had to break off the physical relationship we had been planning on pursuing, he got upset and spent the entire summer belittling my boyfriend and trying to seduce me. He did this all under the guise of being a good Christian friend who just wanted to help me find what God had intended for me. I believe him for a long time too, until my friends and boyfriend showed I deserved a lot more than what he was giving me.
Sorry, that was long. My point is, being Christian doesn't always give you rights to tell people how to live either. As I stated, I also don't have issues with sex before legal marriage because of my idea of spiritual marriage. The only time I've ever been uncomfortable with a friend having sex was when they were irresonsibly sleeping around or when my old roommate, who was dead set on waiting for marriage, was pressured in sex by her douchey, borderline abusive boyfriend.
And I've been dying to get out, though that might be the death of me
I think that's a case of a wolf in sheep's clothing. That guy doesn't sound like he's really following God.
I actually kinda think the church is going through a judgment crises. Most people aren't willing to speak when something is wrong because they think being nice=being loving, and most of those who do speak up are either new Christians who are doing it to make themselves look good, or arrogant jerks who aren't really Christians at all and are judging others for the same reason as the new Christians. We need Christians who are willing to judge and correct for the other person's benefit, and not to puff themselves up or take advantage of someone.
And all I'm asking is for You to do what You can with me
But I can't ask You to give what You already gave
I definitely don't think he was acting in a Christian way, I just use that as an example to show how the "I'm trying to be a good Christian and keep you accountable" excuse can be abused.
I'm uncomfortable with judging and advising, largely because people's theology varies so much. If someone tried to tell me to not have sex, not drink, or that only Christians went to Heaven, I'd probably tell them to back off because those are just not things I believe. I've done my research, and I have found these issues don't interfere with my understanding of the Bible or my relationship with God. However, there are other people who feel they can't drink because it interfere's with their faith, and that's fine. Everyone is different, and has different beliefs. That's why I said I felt the only time it was really appropriate was among close friends who had an accountability type relationship. Having the conversation that you want the other to keep you in line before hand makes giving the feedback much less awkward and better received than random friends, you know? |
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:33 pm
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:42 pm
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Galad Aglaron I'm a promiscuous gay man. That aside, as I understand it, sex in Christianity is supposed to be between a married man and woman who love each other for the purposes of procreation. That means no sex with contraceptives between a married man and woman who want to have sex for pleasure and intimacy. It also means no sex between two people of the same sex who love each other, since many churches refuse to marry same-sex couples, thus making it impossible for their unions to be sanctified by God. It also means no one-night stands, no sex between unwed lovers, no threesomes to spice up your married sex life... "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth; for thy love is better than wine." My favourite Bible verse EVER.
As I stated, I think that is the popular but misguided analysis. Sex is between monogamous, not necessarily married, couples. It is an intimate bond, not purely for procreation.
And Gay people get to do it to. But that's a different issue that's been done to death and my totally Pro Gay opinion has been made clear plenty of times. I got no issue with the man love, as long as I'm not one of the men involved. Totally can't see a guy's p***s and go "Yeah, i can totally get into that." Heck, I look at my own and go "Really? People are interested in that?" |
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:46 pm
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:59 pm
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Matt Pniewski Galad Aglaron I'm a promiscuous gay man. That aside, as I understand it, sex in Christianity is supposed to be between a married man and woman who love each other for the purposes of procreation. That means no sex with contraceptives between a married man and woman who want to have sex for pleasure and intimacy. It also means no sex between two people of the same sex who love each other, since many churches refuse to marry same-sex couples, thus making it impossible for their unions to be sanctified by God. It also means no one-night stands, no sex between unwed lovers, no threesomes to spice up your married sex life... "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth; for thy love is better than wine." My favourite Bible verse EVER. As I stated, I think that is the popular but misguided analysis. Sex is between monogamous, not necessarily married, couples. It is an intimate bond, not purely for procreation. And Gay people get to do it to. But that's a different issue that's been done to death and my totally Pro Gay opinion has been made clear plenty of times. I got no issue with the man love, as long as I'm not one of the men involved. Totally can't see a guy's p***s and go "Yeah, i can totally get into that." Heck, I look at my own and go "Really? People are interested in that?"
You're not supposed to get into a p***s. It's supposed to get into things. That was a terrible joke. I'm sorry.
rmcdra The official catholic stance is procreation AND intimacy and pleasure. The Episcopal and Anglican Church is cool with contraception and gay marriage. Threesomes, one night stands, and premartial sex are modern TABOOS in Christianity. I mean yeah they were regarded as sins back then like they are today but they weren't demonized as harshly as they are today. I mean seriously just read any medieval or Renaissance Age literature or art. (psst, it's basically porn when you get right to it.) Hell Song of Solomon is pretty damn sexy.
I find a lot of Renaissance porn is pretty softcore; it's not until the seventeenth century that you get to the really smutty stuff. And weren't one night stands, threesomes and premarital sex MORE demonised back then? A lot of Christians these days feel fine about 'em whereas back then you had books like The Scarlet Letter and people being stoned for adultery.
And yes, the Song of Solomon is pretty steamy. |
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:11 pm
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:23 pm
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Galad Aglaron Matt Pniewski Galad Aglaron I'm a promiscuous gay man. That aside, as I understand it, sex in Christianity is supposed to be between a married man and woman who love each other for the purposes of procreation. That means no sex with contraceptives between a married man and woman who want to have sex for pleasure and intimacy. It also means no sex between two people of the same sex who love each other, since many churches refuse to marry same-sex couples, thus making it impossible for their unions to be sanctified by God. It also means no one-night stands, no sex between unwed lovers, no threesomes to spice up your married sex life... "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth; for thy love is better than wine." My favourite Bible verse EVER. As I stated, I think that is the popular but misguided analysis. Sex is between monogamous, not necessarily married, couples. It is an intimate bond, not purely for procreation. And Gay people get to do it to. But that's a different issue that's been done to death and my totally Pro Gay opinion has been made clear plenty of times. I got no issue with the man love, as long as I'm not one of the men involved. Totally can't see a guy's p***s and go "Yeah, i can totally get into that." Heck, I look at my own and go "Really? People are interested in that?" You're not supposed to get into a p***s. It's supposed to get into things. That was a terrible joke. I'm sorry.
If I were gay, I'd probably be flirting with you right now. Because that was great. |
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 8:35 pm
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Matt Pniewski Galad Aglaron Matt Pniewski Galad Aglaron I'm a promiscuous gay man. That aside, as I understand it, sex in Christianity is supposed to be between a married man and woman who love each other for the purposes of procreation. That means no sex with contraceptives between a married man and woman who want to have sex for pleasure and intimacy. It also means no sex between two people of the same sex who love each other, since many churches refuse to marry same-sex couples, thus making it impossible for their unions to be sanctified by God. It also means no one-night stands, no sex between unwed lovers, no threesomes to spice up your married sex life... "Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth; for thy love is better than wine." My favourite Bible verse EVER. As I stated, I think that is the popular but misguided analysis. Sex is between monogamous, not necessarily married, couples. It is an intimate bond, not purely for procreation. And Gay people get to do it to. But that's a different issue that's been done to death and my totally Pro Gay opinion has been made clear plenty of times. I got no issue with the man love, as long as I'm not one of the men involved. Totally can't see a guy's p***s and go "Yeah, i can totally get into that." Heck, I look at my own and go "Really? People are interested in that?" You're not supposed to get into a p***s. It's supposed to get into things. That was a terrible joke. I'm sorry. If I were gay, I'd probably be flirting with you right now. Because that was great.
Aw, you sweetheart. |
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Posted: Fri Feb 25, 2011 11:51 pm
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I'll get these out of the way first I suppose. smile
What's the role and purpose of sex?
Originally? More along the lines of procreation, and possibly to promote intimacy. There are quite a few OT laws (such as no a**l, and no gay sex), that make it pretty clear that once upon a time, the Jewish tribes needed to be strong, healthy, and most of all, numerous. Today though, I think pleasure plays a much bigger part. I do know people who firmly believe that sex is for procreation only, then get flustered over simple questions like "So you've never given oral?" Trying to pretend sex isn't fun is just silly, and trying to pretend the woman just lays there, unmoving, as the man climbs on top of her "does his business" is asinine.
Just between man and wife? Between two married partners?
Once upon a time, I thought sex should be for marriage. In fact, I stayed a virgin until I married at 20. I WANTED to save myself for her. It was great, it was wonderful, it was exciting. And then my marriage ended. I had sex fairly early in my current relationship, however. I'm still not 100% sure it was the right thing to do, but that's because of the people we are and the past we each have. Nowadays, we're talking about marriage and a family, and I'm really looking forward to a deepening of what we already have instead of an entirely new circumstances. Because progressing from a very non-sexual relationship to a sudden gigantic commitment AND jumping into bed together doesn't sound like much, but it changes the whole dynamic.
That small rant being said, no, I don't think sex is just for marriage. I also don't think that level of commitment should be just between a man and a woman. But that's another topic. I think marriage changes the sex you have, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. Having that ring and the paperwork that goes with it changes most of your relationship, so why not the sex life too?
My problem with sex outside of marriage/LTR is that people are so... irresponsible with it. They leave themselves open to so much potential harm. My personal opinion on the matter is sex SHOULD be with someone you care for, would like to spend a lifetime with, and should be a tool to show that person how much you love them in return. If you decide otherwise, at least be CAREFUL.
One night stands are awesome?
...meh. Not my style.
What about women? Are we supposed to be submissive or can we wear the pants?
Of course you're supposed to be submissive. Just like you're only supposed to have sex with your married partner of the opposite sex in the missionary position under the covers in the dark. /sarcasm
Birth control? Yay or nay?
Yes. Please. I think it was freelance who mentioned "interfering with God's plan" and it being utter nonsense. I agree wholeheartedly. Being smart and having some family planning isn't going against your faith. If it would be impractical, dangerous, or unfair to the child to have a baby in the circumstances you're in now, why risk it? God gave you a brain for a reason.
Do we have the right or calling to place our own sexual beliefs and morals on other people?
Within our own communities, perhaps. To the world at large? No. It would largely be a waste of breath anyhow since the typical response is "your morals are not my morals so shut up and go away." Trying to make disciples of all nations isn't about shoving your beliefs down someone else's throat. They have to feel the conviction themselves, otherwise it's just another set of rules they have no reason to follow.
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Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 8:30 am
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Posted: Sat Feb 26, 2011 10:19 am
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The Amazing Ryuu My problem with sex outside of marriage/LTR is that people are so... irresponsible with it. They leave themselves open to so much potential harm. My personal opinion on the matter is sex SHOULD be with someone you care for, would like to spend a lifetime with, and should be a tool to show that person how much you love them in return. If you decide otherwise, at least be CAREFUL.
I think you raise a really good point. which is why I tend to err on the side of holding off on sex, not necessarily until marriage, but for a good length of time. I think you should wait until you and your partner feel fairly certain you'll be spending a lifetime together. I see a lot of couples jumping into bed really early when they're still getting to know one another, and then when things don't work out, the component of sex makes breaking up and fixing the relationship that much more complicated. My former roommate got pressured into sex by her douchey boyfriend, and I know it'll be that much harder for her to end the relationship with him, because she was saving herself for her life partner. I just don't think she'll ever be able to come to terms with the fact she gave her virginity to the wrong guy. That relationship had a slew of other issues though.
I think many couples do take sex too lightly, but I don't think waiting for marriage is always necessary. Brad and I waited a little over a year, which I think was a good amount of time for us. We had plenty of time to get to know one another without the pressure of sex, and by the one year mark, I felt confident that we would have a long relationship that had the potential to end in marriage. Plus we had seen we had a very compatible relationship and that we were able to work through the few, minor problems we did have. I think waiting is always a good idea, just not until marriage. Especially since people are now waiting six and seven years to get married. |
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Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:52 am
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What's the role and purpose of sex? Just between man and wife? Between two married partners? One night stands are awesome? For pleasure or procreation?
I think it is for reproduction and pleasure. One night stands are stupid and pointless, also careless, I mean that is how people get STD's and other stuff. e.e
I think it should be between a married couple, or a couple that has been together for a long time.
Like for instance me and my fiancée have been together for two years, we do it but we are careful, if I were to get pregnant we would be mature about it, not abort it, we have talked about this.
If you have questions feel free to ask.
What about women? Are we supposed to be submissive or can we wear the pants?
Ehhhh, I think that men are better at certain things and I think that women are better at certain things. My fiancée and I treat each other as equals, we talk about finances, major purchases, and what we should be doing.
He doesn't rule the house and neither do I.
It works for us.
Birth control? Yay or nay?
I think that if you are going to have sex you need to be protected, people get huffy over abortion. So if you want to prevent an unwanted pregnancy then see about taking the pill. I rather be protected then go through something that can be prevented. =/
I take the pill, mainly because I hate periods and I don't want to have them, I also take it because it helps my acne and well I don't want kids right now.
I also use condoms.
We use them every time. I also don't sleep around, I am with one person and we intend to marry, but the economy is really bad and getting the money for a wedding is tough.
Do we have the right or calling to place our own sexual beliefs and morals on other people?
Forcing someone to believe what you believe is wrong and it pushes people away.
But if you just share them and do not force them upon people then it's ok.
Forcing someone into a religion and saying things like "if you don't do that, this way you will go to hell!" or " this makes you a bad person!" No that turns people away and it makes you look rude.
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Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 10:58 am
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Posted: Sun Mar 06, 2011 11:03 am
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freelance lover Testicular Diabeetus What's the role and purpose of sex? Just between man and wife? Between two married partners? One night stands are awesome? For pleasure or procreation? I think it is for reproduction and pleasure. One night stands are stupid and pointless, also careless, I mean that is how people get STD's and other stuff. e.e I think it should be between a married couple, or a couple that has been together for a long time. Like for instance me and my fiancée have been together for two years, we do it but we are careful, if I were to get pregnant we would be mature about it, not abort it, we have talked about this. If you have questions feel free to ask.
Abortion is murder.
That baby is a living human, and aborting it is the easy way out of the problem.
Children are a gift from God.
It is not an option for us, not at all.
But I do consider adoption if we cant afford it.
And if we are ready we will keep it. |
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